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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 5013
Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Kyle Wilson Reply with quote

Ok, so I'm making this thread because there seems to be a ton of people who want to draft a corner early and I'm here to say that we don't need to. Kyle Wilson is more than capable of being a starter. Not saying we don't need depth, but going corner in the first two rounds is foolish in my opinion with much larger glaring needs. Want my reasoning? Here it is. The Jets had the 2nd best secondary in the league last year with two safeties who aren't known for being strong in pass coverage and with Kyle Wilson starting 14 games. A lot can be contributed to Cromartie, no doubt, but then again, Cromartie's dominance led to QB's attempting to "pick on" Wilson. The other factor, Wilson graded out in the top 20 (#19 to be exact) as least likely to give up a first down or TD for all corners (link at the bottom of my post). He only allowed a first down or TD on 5.28% of plays where he was in coverage. That was better than most corners. The fact is that we don't need to go corner early. If this isn't enough proof, not sure what is. We have much bigger needs. Here's the link:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/signature-stats-first-downs-allowed-cornerbacks/
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imaiden6669


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1152
Location: Staten Island, NY
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree 100% but a few more points
1-we still need one more impact safety to help sure up secondary and provide relief for Wilson's side of the field and for that im willings to spend a high pick on a safety before i go corner
2-a better pass rush will also help the secondary without Revis and strong safeties we need to start reversing our strategy of the pass defense helping the pass rush and have our pass rush help the pass d in this regard and believe Mo Wilk will become the leader of this defense for the forseable future and also why i see us adding more pass rushers in this draft loaded with them
3-this is the year Wilson needs to MAN up no more games no more "feed me" gestures man up and be a solid corner
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jetfuel


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyle Wilson is not a starting CB. He is a career nickel/dime back.

First off I would not go by oh he grades out in top 20. I have seen every jet game since 1986 and go by what I have seen on T.V and in real life not by stats. When Kyle first started to play he was burn more than my toast in the morning. Last year he was never really tested because the run D was so bad. This made the jets be number 2 in the league because no one needed to pass because they could run the ball all day. When the did throw to Wilson side they completed the pass a lot. He did tackle them most of the time but the WR was open a lot. Wilson put up a very small fight to stop the WR from his route or even hitting the ball away. He is a career nickel back. Just giving you a heads up that stats do not tell the story.
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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 5013
Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's grade out the holes Jet fuel.

Is Wilson starting at corner better or worse than the following:
Ducasse starting at guard-Wilson starting is better
Cumberland starting at TE-Wilson starting is better
Allen starting at Safety-Wilson starting is better
Not having a legit OLB-Wilson starting is better
A WR Trio of Holmes coming off injury with a year left as a Jet, Kerley, and stonehands Hill-Arguable, but i'd say Wilson starting is better.


My point? No need to go corner early when we have this many holes.
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KingOfTheHill84


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 2808
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyle Wilson works better in small spaces which is why putting him on the slot receiver is smart, get a corner to cover on the outside and our defense is still fine

For example when we play Atlanta Cromartie will be on Julio and I think Roddy will dominate Kyle all night. I know its only 1 game but my point is he is great covering #3's and #4's and average covering #2's
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[quote="Ring Worm Sherm"]Revis hasn't done jack since 09[/quote]Fly-A-Jet 2013 Jeremy Kerley
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KingOfTheHill84


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 2808
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
Let's grade out the holes Jet fuel.

Is Wilson starting at corner better or worse than the following:
Ducasse starting at guard-Wilson starting is better
Cumberland starting at TE-Wilson starting is better
Allen starting at Safety-Wilson starting is better
Not having a legit OLB-Wilson starting is better
A WR Trio of Holmes coming off injury with a year left as a Jet, Kerley, and stonehands Hill-Arguable, but i'd say Wilson starting is better.


My point? No need to go corner early when we have this many holes.


value matters at this point

it all depends on who the Jets feel makes the most sense for them
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[quote="Ring Worm Sherm"]Revis hasn't done jack since 09[/quote]Fly-A-Jet 2013 Jeremy Kerley
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jetfuel


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
Let's grade out the holes Jet fuel.

Is Wilson starting at corner better or worse than the following:
Ducasse starting at guard-Wilson starting is better
Cumberland starting at TE-Wilson starting is better
Allen starting at Safety-Wilson starting is better
Not having a legit OLB-Wilson starting is better
A WR Trio of Holmes coming off injury with a year left as a Jet, Kerley, and stonehands Hill-Arguable, but i'd say Wilson starting is better.


My point? No need to go corner early when we have this many holes.


I still think Rex D has always been about the CB play before anything else. Rex has all these crazy blitz that take time to develop. This is why he was so dead set on not trading Revis. He needs to good CB before anything else. I think Holmes will come back 100% and improve the O big time. Cumberland is a good catching TE but his blocking is week. You can always find a blocking TE in the draft or camp cuts. Landry will be fine at one S spot and the draft is very deep in the S spot. You can pick one up in round 3.
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MoLewis57


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 201
Location: In your head
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
Let's grade out the holes Jet fuel.

Is Wilson starting at corner better or worse than the following:
Ducasse starting at guard-Wilson starting is better
Cumberland starting at TE-Wilson starting is better
Allen starting at Safety-Wilson starting is better
Not having a legit OLB-Wilson starting is better
A WR Trio of Holmes coming off injury with a year left as a Jet, Kerley, and stonehands Hill-Arguable, but i'd say Wilson starting is better.


My point? No need to go corner early when we have this many holes.


I have to agree here. He may not be Revis but he doesnt suck.We have a long list of holes bigger than Wilson and only eight draft picks to try to fix them. Wilson got better as the season went on and with a safety over the top of him he will be more than fine
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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 5013
Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetfuel wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Let's grade out the holes Jet fuel.

Is Wilson starting at corner better or worse than the following:
Ducasse starting at guard-Wilson starting is better
Cumberland starting at TE-Wilson starting is better
Allen starting at Safety-Wilson starting is better
Not having a legit OLB-Wilson starting is better
A WR Trio of Holmes coming off injury with a year left as a Jet, Kerley, and stonehands Hill-Arguable, but i'd say Wilson starting is better.


My point? No need to go corner early when we have this many holes.


I still think Rex D has always been about the CB play before anything else. Rex has all these crazy blitz that take time to develop. This is why he was so dead set on not trading Revis. He needs to good CB before anything else. I think Holmes will come back 100% and improve the O big time. Cumberland is a good catching TE but his blocking is week. You can always find a blocking TE in the draft or camp cuts. Landry will be fine at one S spot and the draft is very deep in the S spot. You can pick one up in round 3.
Um, what? When has rex ever had elite corners in his defense? Maybe when he first started out with the Ravens and McCallister was somewhat in his prime. The strength of his D has always come from the front 7 with the line being able to stop the run and the linebackers being able to do a little bit of everything including generate a pass rush. Holmes will be gone next year and saying that he'll be 100% is an assumption. Cumberland's hands are suspect and you need a true vertical threat at TE. And yes, safety you can get in round 3 but you get a game changing safety in rounds 1 or two.
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JetsFan15


Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 705
Location: Dutchess County, NY
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we get a stud pass rusher in the draft to put with Mo and Q it will go a long way to making Wilson a better CB. If we get lucky and land a ballhawking S too - then watch out.

As other have stated, we have a bunch of holes to fill on both sides of the ball and not that I am a huge Wilson fan, but I can wait another year to upgrade that spot ... ideally with a vet since CBs (aside from Revis) are not getting paid.
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jetskid007


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8073
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoLewis57 wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Let's grade out the holes Jet fuel.

Is Wilson starting at corner better or worse than the following:
Ducasse starting at guard-Wilson starting is better
Cumberland starting at TE-Wilson starting is better
Allen starting at Safety-Wilson starting is better
Not having a legit OLB-Wilson starting is better
A WR Trio of Holmes coming off injury with a year left as a Jet, Kerley, and stonehands Hill-Arguable, but i'd say Wilson starting is better.


My point? No need to go corner early when we have this many holes.


I have to agree here. He may not be Revis but he doesnt suck.We have a long list of holes bigger than Wilson and only eight draft picks to try to fix them. Wilson got better as the season went on and with a safety over the top of him he will be more than fine


Forget our own players, compare him to other #2 corners around the NFL.

As Jet fans we've gotten used to watching Revis and Cromartie dominate week in and week out, so when Wilson came in we consciously and subconsciously compared him to Revis. He is not Revis.

Sure, he got beat on a few plays that could've been for TDs, but Wilson does a really good job of disrupting receivers at the line of scrimmage. The average fan says "he got beat", the football coach says "he got the receiver off of his route". It's probably a combination of both. He's athletic enough and he's strong enough to match up with most #2 receivers, he just needed to develop consistency and I think he took a big step in 2012. If he were a few inches taller I feel like he'd be a much better player (he'd match up against bigger receivers better), but he definitely plays bigger than his 5'10 frame. Lets also not forget that this is a soon to be 26 year old heading into his 4th year... he's still a young, developing player.
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rdelaney89


Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 1903
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to draft a corner until the 4th round MAYBE even then I don't know if I want one.

OLB, WR, S, TE, G all need to come before CB

If you ask me I think we will get the best value out of

1a) Mingo
1b) Austin
2) TE
3) S
4) G

fill in who you want but thats the order I believe we should go.
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Raoul Duke


Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 3193
Location: Upstate NY
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I think Wilsons been a below average corner so far. He's a better nickel defender than starter on the outside. I don't know if he's not instinctive enough or lacks confidence but he reacts as opposed to reading the play.

Having said that, he's a more serviceable starter at corner than they have at OLB, S, OG and QB (and on par with a few other positions that could be upgraded but don't necessarily have to be right now) so I don't think they can afford to take a corner in the first three rounds this year.

He's good enough to start in 2013, but unless he takes a big step forward, I'd prefer to see him back at the nickel in 2014.
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teamorange


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 13811
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetskid007 wrote:
MoLewis57 wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Let's grade out the holes Jet fuel.

Is Wilson starting at corner better or worse than the following:
Ducasse starting at guard-Wilson starting is better
Cumberland starting at TE-Wilson starting is better
Allen starting at Safety-Wilson starting is better
Not having a legit OLB-Wilson starting is better
A WR Trio of Holmes coming off injury with a year left as a Jet, Kerley, and stonehands Hill-Arguable, but i'd say Wilson starting is better.


My point? No need to go corner early when we have this many holes.


I have to agree here. He may not be Revis but he doesnt suck.We have a long list of holes bigger than Wilson and only eight draft picks to try to fix them. Wilson got better as the season went on and with a safety over the top of him he will be more than fine


Forget our own players, compare him to other #2 corners around the NFL.

As Jet fans we've gotten used to watching Revis and Cromartie dominate week in and week out, so when Wilson came in we consciously and subconsciously compared him to Revis. He is not Revis.

Sure, he got beat on a few plays that could've been for TDs, but Wilson does a really good job of disrupting receivers at the line of scrimmage. The average fan says "he got beat", the football coach says "he got the receiver off of his route". It's probably a combination of both. He's athletic enough and he's strong enough to match up with most #2 receivers, he just needed to develop consistency and I think he took a big step in 2012. If he were a few inches taller I feel like he'd be a much better player (he'd match up against bigger receivers better), but he definitely plays bigger than his 5'10 frame. Lets also not forget that this is a soon to be 26 year old heading into his 4th year... he's still a young, developing player.


Agree he also uses the sideline very well (which goes hand in hand with disrupting). I also think he is well below average nickel but an above average sideline CB for the reason I listed above.

I also have a feeling a lot of the people who don't like Wilson were the people who also said Cro sucked.
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KingOfTheHill84


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 2808
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love Kyle as a player I just feel he's best inside

Again the value has to be immense for me to be happy picking a corner, the only ones I like are DJ Hayden and Jonathan Banks in the 1st Round
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[quote="Ring Worm Sherm"]Revis hasn't done jack since 09[/quote]Fly-A-Jet 2013 Jeremy Kerley
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