Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Mock draft help
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New Orleans Saints
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Spartica4Real


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 3967
Location: Louisiana (NS922 on the sig)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
thesolution wrote:
Spartica4Real wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I don't think the Saints were very aggressive in pursuing Nnamdi, and giving up on Robinson would be stupid. He looked very good 2 years ago, then he struggled in a zone. Its pretty clear he's just not a zone cover CB.


This. We drafted man corners, not our fault we expected them to fit in a zone. CBs don't win you games.. we need a PASS RUSH. Do you guys forget how terrible our pass rush was last seaon? Including blitzing? All these people that scream for DBs, WRs, or OTs just make me disappointed.

Pass rush & Quarterback are the 2 most important things on a football team. We have NO pass rush and like 3 good corners...


CBs and pass rushers go hand in hand. Their been times last year where the pass rush got their but the coverage was garbage. Vice versa. Saints need bump n run man to man CB because the scheme requires it. Even though Robinson is good in man to man, he's not a bum n run corner. He also doesn't tackle or even want to tackle.


Agreed.

I like Robinson but im not sold on him like others are. Giving him a pass would also require me to give a pass to other defenders I don't feel deserve it, namely Harper & Jenkins. I could argue that for the people saying Robinson is young and developing and suffered from a scheme that dident fit him last season... would you say the same for Malcolm Jenkins?

If that's the case, why plea for a pass rusher when we haven't even seen Butler, Wilson and Galette in this defense yet? Maybe they (Wilson & Galette) suffered from being in a bad defensive fit last season but I don't hear people clamoring for them. Instead I hear PASS RUSHER, we need a PASS RUSHER!!!

This is why I can't give Robinson a pass... you say it's not fair to him not to. I say it's unfair to others if you do and don't do it for them and as far as Im concerned, last seasons defensive output deserves NO pass and ALL (coaches and players) should feel very uncomfortable heading into this offseason.


You can never have enough pass rushers. And exactly, they are UNPROVEN. We can take a CB in a later round.. but if JJ is there at 15 jump on it.
_________________


PSN: The_SlayerSaint (PS4)

#FreeBrandonHarris

Adopt a Saint 2014:
Cam Jordan: 3 tackles, 3 passes defended
Joseph Morgan: Absolutely nothing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 21842
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference is Patrick Robinson, the year before our zone scheme showed flashes of a great CB. Jenkins hasn't shown flashes of an elite player...ever and Roman Harper has never been a cover safety. P-Rob should get a pass because he deserves a pass, he had never played in a zone defense prior to last year and not only was it his first year in a zone; we had the worst pass rush in the league. Zone defense with no pass rush = A freaking disaster.
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3135
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
The difference is Patrick Robinson, the year before our zone scheme showed flashes of a great CB. Jenkins hasn't shown flashes of an elite player...ever and Roman Harper has never been a cover safety. P-Rob should get a pass because he deserves a pass, he had never played in a zone defense prior to last year and not only was it his first year in a zone; we had the worst pass rush in the league. Zone defense with no pass rush = A freaking disaster.


I've seen "splash plays" from Robinson, NEVER have I seen consistency. The same can be said for Malcolm Jenkins. Someone else said Robinson deserves a break because he's going on his 3rd DC in his career, well guess what, Jenkins is on that same roster and only been with the Saints one year longer than Robinson and has had to deal with a position change heading into his 2nd season.

Im not taking up for Jenkins, like I said... none of them get a pass as far as im concerned but I refuse to make excuses for Robinson and not anyone else so I opt to hold all accountable.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 21842
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
The difference is Patrick Robinson, the year before our zone scheme showed flashes of a great CB. Jenkins hasn't shown flashes of an elite player...ever and Roman Harper has never been a cover safety. P-Rob should get a pass because he deserves a pass, he had never played in a zone defense prior to last year and not only was it his first year in a zone; we had the worst pass rush in the league. Zone defense with no pass rush = A freaking disaster.


I've seen "splash plays" from Robinson, NEVER have I seen consistency. The same can be said for Malcolm Jenkins. Someone else said Robinson deserves a break because he's going on his 3rd DC in his career, well guess what, Jenkins is on that same roster and only been with the Saints one year longer than Robinson and has had to deal with a position change heading into his 2nd season.

Im not taking up for Jenkins, like I said... none of them get a pass as far as im concerned but I refuse to make excuses for Robinson and not anyone else so I opt to hold all accountable.

The difference IMO is you could tell last year that Robinson was lost in a zone and the lack of pass rush doesn't help ANY CB. With Jenkins all you see is bad angles, poor tackling, no instincts, gets lost in coverage, can't make plays when the balls in the air. I honestly can't think of a SINGLE positive with Jenkins, seriously...try to think of a good thing Malcolm Jenkins does...
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Spartica4Real


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 3967
Location: Louisiana (NS922 on the sig)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good pass rush makes mediocre or sub-par CB's look good, good CBs DO NOT make a sub-par pass rush look good. So you cannot tell me a CB goes hand in hand with a pass rusher.
_________________


PSN: The_SlayerSaint (PS4)

#FreeBrandonHarris

Adopt a Saint 2014:
Cam Jordan: 3 tackles, 3 passes defended
Joseph Morgan: Absolutely nothing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
krewebrees


Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 364
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my two cent on Robinson and the pass rush situation.

First of all I don't think Robinson had that bad of a season. If you look at the numbers he did terrible, but they only tell half the story. Lofton's numbers dropped for two seasons ago. I haven't heard any mention of benching or cutting him. Heck even Drew's numbers dropped.

Look at Robnison's film removing two plays from every game. Look at two and take them away form how you judge the film and remove them from the stats. What your left with is pro bowl consideration. I'm not gonna say he would have been in the pro bowl, but we would have heard his name a few times. Grant it if you just look at the play you got rid of there's over a dozen TDs and nearly 1500 yards. But unfortunately at corner if your off by a tenth of a second it can be 80 yards and a TD. I think it was mostly little things he could work on and yes I put half of it on the scheme.

If it were my decision Robinson starts day one no questions. Once the season starts if there are still major issues that's anther story.

As for the pass rush I'm not one of those guys screaming for a pass rush, but I do think its a need. Junior Galette in my opinion should and will be our starting jack linebacker. Cam Jordan will create a pass rush form LDE. This where I believe Payton's quote about our 3-4 resembling a 4-3 under comes into play. I've inferred that he was referring to the starting look of the defense, not the play style. Meaning Sam backer is in a 9ish, LDE 5, NT left 1, RDE 3, and the Jack in a 7ish. The backer aren't set with their spot and outside of 5 the numbers start to have less meaning anyway. My point is that in certain 3-4 systems certain players create a pass rush and other don't. In this one, similar to Houston, the LDE Watt does create a pass rush.

This leaves one "pass rushing" in the starting line up. Sam, which I feel both Butler and Tez can play. I don't have a problem If we don't go pass rusher in round 1, because I'm fine with these two guys at this position. I feel Tez may go to inside depending on who we draft. The only pass rusher I'd feel comfortable getting is a Sam, because I feel the other two stops are secure. This is the main reason Jarvis Jones is so high on my board, because he can play Sam, something I feel Mingo, Ansah, and Werner can't do. I feel that of we draft a Sam Tez will not only move back to inside, but start at Will. Depending on our play style Tez will create a pass rush from the inside, I feel this is what Ryan will do. Butler then becomes a situational player and back up for injury.

And back to our corners. I think we have to good starters in Robinson and Lewis and two very good nickel and dime corners in Greer and White. I know no one is as high on Quddus as I am, but I feel he should start at FS and will do an amazing job. This allows Jenkins to play dime corner. That's a lot of quality depth. I don't feel that corner is a position of need.
_________________
Adopt a Saint 2014
Jimmy Graham: 24 rec, 254 yds, 2 TDs
Glenn Foster:
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3135
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robinson would be a Pro-Bowl player if you could take two plays each game away???

You could have just said it like it is... Robinson would be a Pro-Bowl player if you could take two of his screw ups away each game.

I've heard this before with Robinson... Like when he would have been a top 10 pick if he would have been more consistant at FSU. That's basically what your saying.

The bottom line is that he wow's you with splash plays then turns around and gives up easy touchdowns that leave you scratching your head. Stop blaming Spags for everything, especially when it comes to Robinson guys. This has been the knock on him since his days at FSU. Never forget the reason he fell to the 32nd pick.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
krewebrees


Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 364
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, but with what's been said about Payton possibly just trying to scare Charles Brown into being our starter, who's to say the whole Nnamdi thing wasn't the same for Robinson. Unlike Brown constantly getting hurt, Robinson's couple mental errors can actually get fixed. The question then becomes how much did we actually try to get Nnamdi.

For all those how keep bringing up that Ryan's gone secondary in round one in the past, Payton seems to have the reigns a lot tighter this year. I don't think he'll have as much freedom as we've seen from our DCs or he's had himself in the past.
_________________
Adopt a Saint 2014
Jimmy Graham: 24 rec, 254 yds, 2 TDs
Glenn Foster:
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 21842
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Robinson would be a Pro-Bowl player if you could take two plays each game away???

You could have just said it like it is... Robinson would be a Pro-Bowl player if you could take two of his screw ups away each game.

I've heard this before with Robinson... Like when he would have been a top 10 pick if he would have been more consistant at FSU. That's basically what your saying.

The bottom line is that he wow's you with splash plays then turns around and gives up easy touchdowns that leave you scratching your head. Stop blaming Spags for everything, especially when it comes to Robinson guys. This has been the knock on him since his days at FSU. Never forget the reason he fell to the 32nd pick.

BECAUSE IT WAS SPAGS. Theirs a reason that Robinson went from an above average CB showing flashes of elite play to a freaking scrub. Sorry worm but sometimes I feel like you try to look TOO deep into things. The answers right in front of you.
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3135
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Robinson would be a Pro-Bowl player if you could take two plays each game away???

You could have just said it like it is... Robinson would be a Pro-Bowl player if you could take two of his screw ups away each game.

I've heard this before with Robinson... Like when he would have been a top 10 pick if he would have been more consistant at FSU. That's basically what your saying.

The bottom line is that he wow's you with splash plays then turns around and gives up easy touchdowns that leave you scratching your head. Stop blaming Spags for everything, especially when it comes to Robinson guys. This has been the knock on him since his days at FSU. Never forget the reason he fell to the 32nd pick.

BECAUSE IT WAS SPAGS. Theirs a reason that Robinson went from an above average CB showing flashes of elite play to a freaking scrub. Sorry worm but sometimes I feel like you try to look TOO deep into things. The answers right in front of you.


Completely disagree here... I NEVER saw Robinson as an "above average corner". Maybe average at best with the physical skills to be good. A flash player but majorly inconsistent.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 21842
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What? He was good last year; made plays on the ball, came up in run support, physical at the line. I don't know how you can argue he wasn't good last year...He clearly was an awful fit for zone. I'm telling you worm, you're looking for something that isn't there.
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thesolution


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1884
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Robinson would be a Pro-Bowl playek if you could take two plays each game away???

You could have just said it like it is... Robinson would be a Pro-Bowl player if you could take two of his screw ups away each game.

I've heard this before with Robinson... Like when he would have been a top 10 pick if he would have been more consistant at FSU. That's basically what your saying.

The bottom line is that he wow's you with splash plays then turns around and gives up easy touchdowns that leave you scratching your head. Stop blaming Spags for everything, especially when it comes to Robinson guys. This has been the knock on him since his days at FSU. Never forget the reason he fell to the 32nd pick.

BECAUSE IT WAS SPAGS. Theirs a reason that Robinson went from an above average CB showing flashes of elite play to a freaking scrub. Sorry worm but sometimes I feel like you try to look TOO deep into things. The answers right in front of you.


Simply because if you going to make excuses for Robinson than you gotta make excuses for everybody in the secondary. That isn't the case. You brought up Jenkins poor tackling, bad angles etc. Well what about Robinson. He's a horrible tackler, Get lost in coverage, can't locate the ball when its in the air, lose focus, don't take on blockers etc. You living off what hes done 2 seasons ago. IT WAS A Record SETTING DEFENSE. NO 1 GETS A PASS..
_________________

Copyrighted by Kiltman
My Second Sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3135
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krewebrees wrote:
Okay, but with what's been said about Payton possibly just trying to scare Charles Brown into being our starter, who's to say the whole Nnamdi thing wasn't the same for Robinson. Unlike Brown constantly getting hurt, Robinson's couple mental errors can actually get fixed. The question then becomes how much did we actually try to get Nnamdi.

For all those how keep bringing up that Ryan's gone secondary in round one in the past, Payton seems to have the reigns a lot tighter this year. I don't think he'll have as much freedom as we've seen from our DCs or he's had himself in the past.


Everywhere Ryan has been as DC if that team went defense in the top 2 rounds it was either a CB or S. I think once the Raiders took a LB in round 2. THe reason for this is that most of what Ryan really wants to do as far as schemes and stunts inbetween the numbers depends on his ability to lock down the edges in press.

As far as Payton, of course he has the reigns... but if your rebuilding your defense in a new scheme and a new look and your choice is Rob Ryan and you already know what he's going to want. If you ignore what he needs to make his defense operate effectively then your doing a disservice to your team and begs the question of why you would hire the guy in the first place if your not prepared to listen to him and give him what he feels he needs.

I'm not saying the Saints need to go CB just for the sake of going CB... I would only say they need to go Rhodes because Rhodes is EXACTLY the type of player Ryan covets on the edge. He's big, physical, fast and excels at press man coverage. A lot like Nnamdi coming out of Cal. Rhodes is simply a PERFECT fit in this defense and would make a great young corner tandem with Lewis and give Ryan what he truly covets.

I say take Rhodes at 15 then trade back up in round two to secure Jamie Collins.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3135
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
What? He was good last year; made plays on the ball, came up in run support, physical at the line. I don't know how you can argue he wasn't good last year...He clearly was an awful fit for zone. I'm telling you worm, you're looking for something that isn't there.


I'm not saying that he was HORRID in 2011... just that I felt he was average. Sure he made some splash plays and defended the run decent but I didn't see this future pro-bowler that you did.

Now projecting him into the next scheme... I would no doubt take Rhodes over Robinson all day. Does that mean I want P-Rob gone? No, I see him in the slot but I do actknowledge that Rhodes would be the far superior talent in Ryans scheme.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 21842
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesolution wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Robinson would be a Pro-Bowl playek if you could take two plays each game away???

You could have just said it like it is... Robinson would be a Pro-Bowl player if you could take two of his screw ups away each game.

I've heard this before with Robinson... Like when he would have been a top 10 pick if he would have been more consistant at FSU. That's basically what your saying.

The bottom line is that he wow's you with splash plays then turns around and gives up easy touchdowns that leave you scratching your head. Stop blaming Spags for everything, especially when it comes to Robinson guys. This has been the knock on him since his days at FSU. Never forget the reason he fell to the 32nd pick.

BECAUSE IT WAS SPAGS. Theirs a reason that Robinson went from an above average CB showing flashes of elite play to a freaking scrub. Sorry worm but sometimes I feel like you try to look TOO deep into things. The answers right in front of you.


Simply because if you going to make excuses for Robinson than you gotta make excuses for everybody in the secondary. That isn't the case. You brought up Jenkins poor tackling, bad angles etc. Well what about Robinson. He's a horrible tackler, Get lost in coverage, can't locate the ball when its in the air, lose focus, don't take on blockers etc. You living off what hes done 2 seasons ago. IT WAS A Record SETTING DEFENSE. NO 1 GETS A PASS..

I'm sorry dude but you talk out your area way too much. Robinson can't tackle? What? He doesn't locate the in the air?! WTF that's his strength. Robinson definitely looked lost in a ZONE defense, because he isn't a zone CB. I don't know why I ever bother responding to you, half your responses make me think you haven't seen a Saints game in years.
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New Orleans Saints All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group