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I'm gettin a bad feelin about the draft....
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 36999
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
I'm just curious...but would anyone be pissed if we traded up for Cooper?


Not at all (unless it would cost us a 2nd round pick again). Here's the way I see things....

The cowboys are clearly trying to win now. FA is still strong at OT but weak at OG. We need to add at least 2 pieces to the OL to have a chances of winning now. If trading up assures us of 1 of the 2 elite OG prospects and we can still land Clabo or Winston in FA, I see the OL as substantially improved.


I agree with this.

I really think we will mortgage the draft for a few players... The 2014 draft that is. Dont be surprised if we give up our first next year for a second this year if a player we covet drops.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
I'm just curious...but would anyone be pissed if we traded up for Cooper?


Not at all (unless it would cost us a 2nd round pick again). Here's the way I see things....

The cowboys are clearly trying to win now. FA is still strong at OT but weak at OG. We need to add at least 2 pieces to the OL to have a chances of winning now. If trading up assures us of 1 of the 2 elite OG prospects and we can still land Clabo or Winston in FA, I see the OL as substantially improved.


I agree with this.

I really think we will mortgage the draft for a few players... The 2014 draft that is. Dont be surprised if we give up our first next year for a second this year if a player we covet drops.


I don't believe for a second that there is any feasible scenario in this draft where we would give up a future first round draft pick. No way.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People make a lot of generalities with regards to the draft: this tactic always works, this tactic always fails, this type of player always succeeds, this type of player always busts. It's mostly people talking out of their butts.

Matts4313 wrote:
Dont be surprised if we give up our first next year for a second this year if a player we covet drops.


However, this is probably the one thing a team can do that will ALWAYS backfire.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:

I don't believe for a second that there is any feasible scenario in this draft where we would give up a future first round draft pick. No way.


I could easily see us giving up either a first or second next year. First of all, JJ is fond of the tactic as he has done it before (giving up future picks for someone he likes). Secondly, JG is officially on the hot seat and will be willing to go all in. Thirdly, this is the exact type of draft to do it in. You have a lot of highly rated players at the exact positions we need them.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt79511 wrote:

However, this is probably the one thing a team can do that will ALWAYS backfire.


Except that time we gave up 3x 2nd rounders (plus our first) to move up and select Tony Dorset, right?
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pierrepet


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:

I don't believe for a second that there is any feasible scenario in this draft where we would give up a future first round draft pick. No way.


I could easily see us giving up either a first or second next year. First of all, JJ is fond of the tactic as he has done it before (giving up future picks for someone he likes). Secondly, JG is officially on the hot seat and will be willing to go all in. Thirdly, this is the exact type of draft to do it in. You have a lot of highly rated players at the exact positions we need them.



I completely disagree and cannot fathom doing that in this draft. Going into a draft without a first round pick generally backfires. And for whatever reason, a lack of a first rounder has negatively affected all rounds in the draft for Dallas (see 2009 and the Galloway years) recently.

I also disagree that Garrett would mortgage the future because he is on the hot seat. Personally, I don't think Garrett's seat is as hot as the media portrays. Also, Garrett believes in his approach of "staying the course...." He just does not strike me as a guy that would allow himself to stray from the long term plan.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:

I don't believe for a second that there is any feasible scenario in this draft where we would give up a future first round draft pick. No way.


I could easily see us giving up either a first or second next year. First of all, JJ is fond of the tactic as he has done it before (giving up future picks for someone he likes). Secondly, JG is officially on the hot seat and will be willing to go all in. Thirdly, this is the exact type of draft to do it in. You have a lot of highly rated players at the exact positions we need them.


He's given up future first round picks for established veterans, not late 1st round rookies. Broaddus says going into a draft without a first round pick is as miserable as Jerry Jones has ever been. I don't buy that he would do that for someone at the end of the first round like Sylvester Williams.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:

I don't believe for a second that there is any feasible scenario in this draft where we would give up a future first round draft pick. No way.


I could easily see us giving up either a first or second next year. First of all, JJ is fond of the tactic as he has done it before (giving up future picks for someone he likes). Secondly, JG is officially on the hot seat and will be willing to go all in. Thirdly, this is the exact type of draft to do it in. You have a lot of highly rated players at the exact positions we need them.


He's given up future first round picks for established veterans, not late 1st round rookies. Broaddus says going into a draft without a first round pick is as miserable as Jerry Jones has ever been. I don't buy that he would do that for someone at the end of the first round like Sylvester Williams.



Im envisioning a different scenario. Lets say this happens: Pick 18 rolls around and Star L. is still there... Along with some of the top safeties and Guards.... Just humor me, I know you think there is no chance. But, we have seen strange things happen.


Lets say they take Star. Highest rated player, plus his name is awesome for the Cowboys Laughing


Day 1 ends. Cowboys are doing their evaluations and say "You know, we have a huge drop in grade from player X (lets say Cooper) to the next guy". They work out a trade over that night to send 2014 1st to San Fransisco if Cooper is still there at pick 34.


Just saying - I could see it happening. Id actually be surprised if we don't trade away at least 1 future pick this year.

**We see RD 1 talent drop every year.. Its not as unrealistic as you think. Hell, we had S Lee rated as the 14th best player in the draft ad we got him at ~55**
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Nextyearfordaboyz


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:

I don't believe for a second that there is any feasible scenario in this draft where we would give up a future first round draft pick. No way.


I could easily see us giving up either a first or second next year. First of all, JJ is fond of the tactic as he has done it before (giving up future picks for someone he likes). Secondly, JG is officially on the hot seat and will be willing to go all in. Thirdly, this is the exact type of draft to do it in. You have a lot of highly rated players at the exact positions we need them.


He's given up future first round picks for established veterans, not late 1st round rookies. Broaddus says going into a draft without a first round pick is as miserable as Jerry Jones has ever been. I don't buy that he would do that for someone at the end of the first round like Sylvester Williams.



Im envisioning a different scenario. Lets say this happens: Pick 18 rolls around and Star L. is still there... Along with some of the top safeties and Guards.... Just humor me, I know you think there is no chance. But, we have seen strange things happen.


Lets say they take Star. Highest rated player, plus his name is awesome for the Cowboys Laughing


Day 1 ends. Cowboys are doing their evaluations and say "You know, we have a huge drop in grade from player X (lets say Cooper) to the next guy". They work out a trade over that night to send 2014 1st to San Fransisco if Cooper is still there at pick 34.


Just saying - I could see it happening. Id actually be surprised if we don't trade away at least 1 future pick this year.

**We see RD 1 talent drop every year.. Its not as unrealistic as you think. Hell, we had S Lee rated as the 14th best player in the draft ad we got him at ~55**


I guess you and I disagree immensely on what "feasible" means. If your scenario miraculously occurs, I wouldn't mind trading away future picks. But as ht likes to say, if my aunt had a sack, she'd be my uncle.

It's not going to happen.

EDIT: I think it's very possible that we trade a future pick. I just don't think there is any way we give up a future first rounder.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meluga was projected top 15, went second round
Quinn and Rodgers were both projected to go top 3.. both went at the end of the first. Same thing happened with Marino.
DeCastro last year was supposed to go top 10
Already mentioned Lee.. Buy Dez was also considered a top 10 guy
Bowers was a top 5 pick who went in the mid second
Lamaar Woodley?
LeSean Mccoy?
Randy Moss?


Just saying. People slide. Every year it seems like ~5-10 of the players the everyone has as a "lock" to be a first rounder, slide dramatically in the first, or fall out all together.
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pierrepet wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:

I don't believe for a second that there is any feasible scenario in this draft where we would give up a future first round draft pick. No way.


I could easily see us giving up either a first or second next year. First of all, JJ is fond of the tactic as he has done it before (giving up future picks for someone he likes). Secondly, JG is officially on the hot seat and will be willing to go all in. Thirdly, this is the exact type of draft to do it in. You have a lot of highly rated players at the exact positions we need them.



I completely disagree and cannot fathom doing that in this draft. Going into a draft without a first round pick generally backfires. And for whatever reason, a lack of a first rounder has negatively affected all rounds in the draft for Dallas (see 2009 and the Galloway years) recently.

I also disagree that Garrett would mortgage the future because he is on the hot seat. Personally, I don't think Garrett's seat is as hot as the media portrays. Also, Garrett believes in his approach of "staying the course...." He just does not strike me as a guy that would allow himself to stray from the long term plan.


Never say never, but I agree that it's a long shot.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not spending my time on this debate. The scenarios where we are willing to trade away a future first round pick for a player that fell into the 30s just isn't going to happen.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
matt79511 wrote:

However, this is probably the one thing a team can do that will ALWAYS backfire.


Except that time we gave up 3x 2nd rounders (plus our first) to move up and select Tony Dorset, right?


Throwing a whole lot of picks for a pick at or near the top of the draft is a typically dubious decision, but it's worked out in a few cases, yes. Throwing away a future first for a current second to my knowledge has never worked out for a team.
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sodakcowboy78


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cant remember the last time Dallas traded away a future pick to move up or to move into a spot to draft a falling player...just dumb moves to trade for WR's...now...I could see Dallas moving up using THIS years picks...

I would love to see Dallas move down this year and pick up additional picks in rounds 2-5 for starters and depth esp at WR RB and TE...but no more projects please...like David Arkin...draft OL high that can play now or go the FA route


Peace
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I would say I am beginning to agree with the title of this thread. I looked at the Boys web site and Broddas is talking about LB's. He is talking a lot about LB's. I swear if they draft a LB in the 1st round I'm OUT! Of all the thingswe absolutely NEED, a LB is not 1 of them.
If we fill S, OL, DL, back up RB and CB, then, yes, I would agree a LB would be nice. But PLEASE do not draft 1 in the 1st or even 2nd round!
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