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Keth's OLB eval (Jones, Mingo, Moore, Trevardo, Collins, ++)
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6431
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
WeTerrell Suggs 2.0?

Suggs was a junior. Jarvis is a 24-years old senior.

Suggs at combine was 6'3" 257 lbs, Jarvis at 6'3" and 243 lbs.

Suggs had no injury concerns, Jarvis does.

Suggs was great at run defending, Jarvis- not so much

I wish some people would stop comparing them both because one, Suggs is a defensive end and Jarvis is an outside linebacker. Two, comparison doesn't match, not even the production. Three, if Jarvis Jones was so great, why is he projected to go #17 IN this weakening draft class where Suggs were in a class of strong D-linemen that goes with players of DT Henderson (retired), Ty Warren, and Calvin Pace, among others.

Looking at this draft class, I don't want Jarvis Jones at 17th pick at all but everybody is entitled to their own opinions.


Just a couple of thoughts.

First, there are no perfect player comps. Height, weight, playing style are similar enough to make the physical comparison.

Second, both had poor pre-draft workouts.

Third, Suggs plays, wait for it, OLB for the Ravens. He'll 3 point occasionally allowing that D to be multiple, but at least to date he stands up far more often. Jones is projected to play, yep, OLB and brings a similar skillset potentially giving a D that same multiple front flexibility.

Fourth, the primary concern with Suggs coming out was that he lacked the bulk to play the run...sound familiar?

Fifth, the injury concerns with Jones have been put to rest.

Sixth, I don't think Jones is projected to go 17 either. I think he is expected to go higher than that. Probably within a few picks of the #10 spot Suggs went.

OK, more than a couple thoughts here. Apologies. The point being that in the course of making a player comparison there are multiple levels to that comp. Obviously no two prospects are identical in every variable. However, playing style similarities and projected impact are what useful comps are based off, not identical physical characteristics.

I'm not rooting for Jones as the pick necessarily. He carries risk as does every draft pick. If he does hit his ceiling though, I think he will have a Suggs like impact for a team...hence the comparison to begin with.
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Gatoradus


Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 2223
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Key sentences you put there: lacking the bulk to be a run defender. Played olb. Poor pro day.

Only thing you got right is poor and similar pro days but as for others...

Jarvis Jones is bad at run-stopping, Suggs isn't he just lack the "size" to be a run stopper DE at next level. Big difference is the talent and ability to play right there

Also! Suggs played as OLB- when Ravens is playing 3-4 package. Jarvis Jones play as a 4-3 olb and occasionally 3-4 but the package they use at Georgia is a lot different than ours. Ours are more of a combination of those: read and react, pass rush, and coverage. Jarvis is good at only one and you can guess which.

If there's a prospect that is closest to Suggs in this draft, its D. Moore.

Yes Jarvis' CURRENTLY injury is all cleared but he has an injury history. Heck he transferred from USC for that reason (and to have a "fresh start")
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6431
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
Key sentences you put there: lacking the bulk to be a run defender. Played olb. Poor pro day.

Only thing you got right is poor and similar pro days but as for others...

Jarvis Jones is bad at run-stopping, Suggs isn't he just lack the "size" to be a run stopper DE at next level. Big difference is the talent and ability to play right there

Also! Suggs played as OLB- when Ravens is playing 3-4 package. Jarvis Jones play as a 4-3 olb and occasionally 3-4 but the package they use at Georgia is a lot different than ours. Ours are more of a combination of those: read and react, pass rush, and coverage. Jarvis is good at only one and you can guess which.

If there's a prospect that is closest to Suggs in this draft, its D. Moore.

Yes Jarvis' CURRENTLY injury is all cleared but he has an injury history. Heck he transferred from USC for that reason (and to have a "fresh start")


I think you more or less missed the point of my entire post, but maybe I simply communicated poorly...whatever.

No point in the back and forth Suggs vs. Jones debate tho. I recognize that they aren't identical players/prospects but I do believe their utilization and impact may be similar if Jones hits. I see enough similarities to make the comparison at that level. If you don't that's cool.
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Gatoradus


Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naw I just had a fixature on those facts but fair enough. I did get your point as well, let's just move through; we both obviously have entirely different opinions on Jarvis Jones.
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KJtheWicked


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1715
Location: Norrisville, Pa
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Keth. Tell me what you think of Meshak Williams, DE/OLB Kansas St. Here's one video I watched:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsrhSD0rwTw

He's slated as a 7-FA prospect, and from watching the tape, I can see why. He's a project. Struggles getting off blocks, really didn't show much against the run. I do like his explosiveness in space though, and a few times he dropped back into coverage. Showed the awareness to get his hands up in passing lanes, although I didn't see any he actually deflected. When he has a little room, he really shows some serious burst into the backfield. Problem was, every time the OT touched him, he was done. Thoughts?
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 10057
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJtheWicked wrote:
Hey Keth. Tell me what you think of Meshak Williams, DE/OLB Kansas St. Here's one video I watched:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsrhSD0rwTw

He's slated as a 7-FA prospect, and from watching the tape, I can see why. He's a project. Struggles getting off blocks, really didn't show much against the run. I do like his explosiveness in space though, and a few times he dropped back into coverage. Showed the awareness to get his hands up in passing lanes, although I didn't see any he actually deflected. When he has a little room, he really shows some serious burst into the backfield. Problem was, every time the OT touched him, he was done. Thoughts?



I did notice him a good bit while watching Arthur Brown. He looks like an aggressive player but just not physical enough to do anything when blocked, even against FB or TEs. Special teamer to me
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