Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Keth's OLB eval (Jones, Mingo, Moore, Trevardo, Collins, ++)
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Pittsburgh Steelers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9846
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Keth's OLB eval (Jones, Mingo, Moore, Trevardo, Collins, ++) Reply with quote

I'm more convinced that Jarvis Jones is going to be useless as a Steelers' 3-4 OLB. Here's my writeup:

small guys who are slow and weak tend not to do that well as pass rushers in the NFL. the entirety of Georgia's defense was built to get him sacks. Cornelius Washington, Kwame Geathers, and John Jenkins' jobs in life were to free up Jarvis Jones. The dude spends so much of his time unblocked

What he does well:

1) Good flexibility - runs the arc, dips his shoulder, and can turn the corner deep in the backfield. When he beats an OL 1v1, from what I've seen, it was almost always a RT deep
2) Inside moves - inside rip, inside swim, inside stunt (mostly from right side) were pretty good
3) Punches at the ball carrier - forced a few fumbles that way
4) Avoids cut blocks pretty well (something that Damontre Moore, for example, is quite poor at doing)

What is inconsistent:
1) Handfights decently well...sometimes. Inconsistent, sometimes gets velcroed by FBs and TEs, other times is able to fight inside against the run
2) Setting the edge, read/react skills sometime show him in a good light, often he gets completely faked out
3) Coverage - he seems to have pretty good instincts in coverage, always gets a good bump on the guy coming out of the backfield, sometimes just floats in a zone while guys are in his zone, but does't really cover them

What college teams do that makes me think he's not going to be nearly as successful as a 3-4 OLB:
1) Leave him unblocked - nearly 2/3 of his sacks come unblocked on the games I've seen (And rewatched)
2) Run right at him - he runs the arc so often that he leaves a gaping hole open for draws and quick hitters right at the gap he abandons
3) Block him with a WR, FB and/or a TE - Auburn did this constantly (#81 shut him down much of the game - EDIT 81 is a SO TE for Auburn)
4) He's a nightmare against mobile QBs, as they run through his gap everytime he runs the arc 10 yards deep
5) He's a gap shooter, and teams did a great job of running right at him and taking the gap he abandoned. Overcommits either dfar outside or inside and leaves that gaping hole in his gap that RBs took advantage of. There's a reason Georgia was ranked dead last in the SEC and 77th in the nation in rushing yards allowed. Certainly he's not all of it, but it was obvious teams were targeting Jones in the running game.

hurm, I think I said the same thing in different ways there. Meh, whatever.

i'll say thius much, rewatching these Georgia games reminded me how much I like Baccari Rambo


Last edited by kethnaab on Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:10 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9846
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(shorter) notes on Barkevious Mingo:

1) Brutal hands, very heavy heavy hands, able to bullrush almost everyone when he gets his hands up initially (including monsters like Fluker)
2) Flexible and explosive - off the line, has insane explosion
3) Sick spin move, both directions, almost always maintains supreme balance
4) Great pursuit from backside
5) Block shedding is inconsistent, sometimes he ragdolls big OL, other times he gets velcroed
6) unlike Jarvis Jones, was completely unblockable by TEs, WRs, and RBs
7) Very good at batting passes in read/react mode
Cool Kinda clueless when he drops into coverage, no surprises
9) Great pursuit down LoS
10) Hiis sack total was poor, but he was constantly pressuring the QB

if he's there at 1.17 (he won't be), I'd take Mingo. I'd pass on Jarvis Jones in the 2nd. Not sure Mingo really fits as an OLB, but he'd give me a darn good reason to move to a 4-3

oh yeah, forgot how much I liked Reid and Minter


Last edited by kethnaab on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOVE your analysis Kethy! Always do a solid, detailed job. I hope we don't take someone with such a huge risk. How would you rank these 2 vs. Jamie Collins. Not value wise, just in general?? Any other 3-4 OLB's you'd take in the 1st 2 rounds??

Sidenote: Also, can you try to find a video where Worilds beats a tackle so we can stop beating this dead horse!! Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 62758
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like all of the guys you mentioned. Jarvis Jones included. I heard people make the same comments about Von Miller a few years ago. He fell for a while in most mock drafts at one point. I was thinking for sure he'd be there for the redskins at 10. Then all of a sudden he was the #2 pick and he's been amazing.

I like Mingo also, but as you said, he isn't falling to the Steelers most likely.

I really like Rambo on the field, I don't trust him off the field.

Reid is one of my favorite players in the draft.

Minter is solid, he very well could be the steelers 2nd round pick.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
Days until: Today; @ Texans 7. Adopt-a-Redskin: Brian Orakpo


Last edited by turtle28 on Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9846
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
I like all of the guys you mentioned. Jarvis Jones included. I heard people make the same comments about Von Miller a few years ago. He fell for a whole in most mock drafts at one point. I was thinking for sure he'd be there for the redskins at 10. Then all of a sudden he was the #2 pick and he's been amazing.


except Miller was incredibly explosive and much better against the run. He didn't have free rushes schemed for constantly.

turtle28 wrote:
Reid is one of my favorite players in the draft.

Minter is solid, he very well could be the steelers 2nd round pick.


i've been a fan of Minter for awhile, although I like Bostic and Alonso about as much. Reid, I must admit, I've slept on for much of the season.


Just finished watching through several FSU games. Bjoern Werner is an interesting character. A white edge rusher with a pretty pedestrian motor. Tank Carradine looks interesting in mid rounds but people are talking about him as a 1st rounder and that one I just don't get at all.

See, this is what happens when you have surgery right before the draft. you burn out your DV-R. Very Happy


Going to rewatch Texas A&M (Damontre Moore), Texas (Okafor), southern Miss (Collins) and Connecticut (Sio Moore and Trevardo Williams)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9846
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trevardo Williams

1) Plays with really good leverage most of the time
2) Active hands, not really heavy hands though, blockers tend not to block him clean but he doesn't always smack their hands away
3) Good moves to both outside and inside from left and right side (rip and swim, stunt, don't recall any spins)
4) VERY nice closing speed, ridiculously explosive off RT edge from 2 or 3-point
5) Seems a bit more comfortable on right side, does the "Deebo arm rip" to try to force fumble from right side, didn't see it from left
6) Played run on a few occasions very well from a 2-point, good backside pursuit, decent anchor vs. run for a little dude
7) Stubby arms, gets enveloped sometimes if he gives up his numbers
Cool For a quick agile guy gtes cut block a bit more than I'd expect
9) When he misses his punch he tends to get his chest velcroed to the OL, small size requires a good 2-hand punch to generate any type of bullrush
10) Runs a nice arc from the wide 9
11) Not really anything resembling a bull rush or spin

- didn't see him in coverage at all, so can't really eval that one

dude looks like an absolutely natural fit for us at ROLB....I might like him in the 3rd now more than I like Collins in the 2nd


Last edited by kethnaab on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9846
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sio Moore

1) Picks through trash nicely, flows to ball well inside
2) Lined up in a 3-point and rushed from DE position, liked up in 2-point as edge rush OLB, even front OLB, and as ILB. Very versatile, lines up on right and left side from each LB position. Even lined up as a DT a few times
3) Very active hands, extends and sheds pretty well
4) Very Elusive on blitz, quick overhand swim+inside move
5) Pretty good bull rush, extends and locks his arms well and drives his feet, plays nice and low on the bull rush
6) Reads QB in coverage, got caught spying the backfield once but does good job containing his guy. Coverage not a stregnth but he's not a 2-down guy only. Seems better in man coverage vs. TE/FB than dropping into zone. Has Dwight Hands of Stone though. Good at contain and read/react. I like this dude
7) Forcefully takes on blockers inside, ideal SILB. First guy to hole and takes on FB and/or OGs with full intensity and stands his ground or takes them out.
Cool Good (not great) in space vs. run or pass

VERY big fan of his to begin with, this just reinforced it. He's the guy they wanted Lawrence Timmons to be (pass rusher from OLB, run stopper from ILB). Truth be told, if we went UConn in rounds 2 and 3, our defense might just improve nicely


Last edited by kethnaab on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steelers75


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 786
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: draft Reply with quote

good write ups kethnaab. gives you something to think about.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rollins


Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Posts: 646
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate your analysis keth. I have to disagree with you on the Jones and Mingo analysis though. I love Jones and hate Mingo for us. Mingo does not fit our system he is strickly a wide 9 type of pass rusher. He cannot set the edge and to me runs around blocks way too much.

Here is my top 5 OLB prospects for OUR system

1. Jarvis Jones- Love the talent, love his demeanor even more. In his interviews he sounds like a true football player at heart. I dont care about his 40, put on the tape. This guy is a monster.

2. Trevardo Williams- Very close #2 for me. Many of you probably already know how high I am on this guy cuz I've been pimping him since January. He is the closest thing I've seen to Deebo. The only thing he looks to be missing is that nastiness of Deebo. If he could get that the sky is the limit.

3. Jamie Collins- Love the fact that this guy has played so many different positions, which shows me his football IQ is very high. We already know he is a physical freak.

4. Tank Carradine- Big, Strong, and Explosive. From what Im hearing about his pro day it was a huge success and he is healing up nicely from the injury.

5. Dion Jordan- A little too tall and thin for me, and not as productive as I would like. With that said he is the most versatile with his coverage ability, and has a very high ceiling if he can put on about 15 to 20 lbs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9846
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

everyone knows I'm a fan of Jamie Collins by now, but I haven't watched him in a few months, so let's see how he looks after about 8 hours of football LB watching. Razz


1) Plays from left or right side, 2 or 3-point stance, very balanced from either side
2) For a tall lanky guy, plays with great leverage, and has some good, violent hands
3) Runs the arc with very good flexibility and bend, read/reacts to bat passes down sometimes rather than pure edge rush
4) Fairly decent job on contain vs. zone stretch, forced play inside without allowing a cutback lane
5) Doesn't miss tackles. Long-[inappropriate/removed] Octopus arms. That football insiders stat seems legit to me
6) Doesn't always explode with first step, but can generae a first-step explosion from the middle of his rush (Saw this a few times, freakish athleticism)
7) Good, but somewhat inconsistent initial punch, read/reacts a lot to swat ball so isn't always aggressive off snap
Cool Violent overhand arm shed vs. run and on rush, i.e. he doesn't ragdoll, he just swats hands down and shoots forward
9) Average ball awareness and snap anticipation
10) Comfortable backpedaling in coverage, good coordination, hands are bricks, instincts in zone are meh.
11) Seems to get tired and jog a bit more often than one would expect, although he also seems to be the only guy on defense doing anything at times
12) Nebraska saw fit to double team him quite a bit. Only player I saw double teamed in any of Southern Miss' games

side note - plays on punt coverage

going to do a search on youtube for him vs. Western Kentucky. he bullrushes the LT from a 2-point stance, ragdolls him, blows into the backfield, and suplexes the ball carrier. My nipples are still hard from this one.


Last edited by kethnaab on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9846
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollins wrote:
I appreciate your analysis keth. I have to disagree with you on the Jones and Mingo analysis though. I love Jones and hate Mingo for us. Mingo does not fit our system he is strickly a wide 9 type of pass rusher. He cannot set the edge and to me runs around blocks way too much.


agree regarding Mingo. He's not a 3-4 OLB. That's why I said we'd have to switch.

regarding Jones, I just don't see it. The guy runs the arc or stunts inside EVERY SINGLE PLAY. He gets his stats because that defensive system schemes to get him stats.

rollins wrote:
Here is my top 5 OLB prospects for OUR system

1. Jarvis Jones- Love the talent, love his demeanor even more. In his interviews he sounds like a true football player at heart. I dont care about his 40, put on the tape. This guy is a monster.

2. Trevardo Williams- Very close #2 for me. Many of you probably already know how high I am on this guy cuz I've been pimping him since January. He is the closest thing I've seen to Deebo. The only thing he looks to be missing is that nastiness of Deebo. If he could get that the sky is the limit.

3. Jamie Collins- Love the fact that this guy has played so many different positions, which shows me his football IQ is very high. We already know he is a physical freak.

4. Tank Carradine- Big, Strong, and Explosive. From what Im hearing about his pro day it was a huge success and he is healing up nicely from the injury.

5. Dion Jordan- A little too tall and thin for me, and not as productive as I would like. With that said he is the most versatile with his coverage ability, and has a very high ceiling if he can put on about 15 to 20 lbs.


other than Jones, this is pretty reasonable. I'm not sure Tank's an OLB, he's as stiff as Werner, if not moreso. Dion Jordan is an insane athlete, he would wreck as a coverage LB for us but I'm not sure he's really the guy to generate a pass rush.

I want to find some more Sio Moore to watch, I really like watching that dude play football. Going to rewatch Damontre Moore and then Alex Okafor. Rewatching the Georgia games really cemnted how much of a bust I think Jones will be as a 3-4 OLB for us. He won't be allowed to run the arc play after play. LeBeau will pull him off the field as often as he gives up his gap. I just don't see him in black and gold at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9846
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:

Sidenote: Also, can you try to find a video where Worilds beats a tackle so we can stop beating this dead horse!! Thanks!


gotta go back to his days at Virginia Tech. He beat a RT on an inside spin move this season, once, but the QB already got the ball away. All his sacks were against RB, TE, or after 4-5 seconds where the QB ran right at him after getting flushed from the pocket. His Gildong sack total in the NFL is 10 for 10
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
popie70


Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 1064
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
at23steelers wrote:

Sidenote: Also, can you try to find a video where Worilds beats a tackle so we can stop beating this dead horse!! Thanks!


gotta go back to his days at Virginia Tech. He beat a RT on an inside spin move this season, once, but the QB already got the ball away. All his sacks were against RB, TE, or after 4-5 seconds where the QB ran right at him after getting flushed from the pocket. His Gildong sack total in the NFL is 10 for 10


I haven't watched nearly as much film as you have but what do you think about FSU's other guy Jenkins? Do you think he would be a better fit for us?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9846
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex Okafor

1) Lines up as LOLB and LDE, rushes equally well from 2 or 3-point, but almost always from left side. Rushes from 2-point a lot more often than I remember, more often than from 3-point.
2) Looooong frame, uses his arms well
3) Good outside and inside rip, uses his hands rather than speed or explosivness, really seems like an ideal LOLB in a system where he doesn't play in space much, which is obviously a problem since we need a ROLB who can play in space
4) Looked meh in coverage, neither impressive nor overmatched. Lacks speed and quickness obviously
5) Beastly vs. the run. Beats initial blocker frequently requiring a 2nd block from RB or TE/OG
6) Not a straight line speed guy, strength + long arms + nasty hands
7) Used to stunt inside from a 2-point frequently, generates interior pressure with bullrush but isn't explosive; gets caught inside and play bounces outside (with very average LB support)
Cool More flexible than Damontre Moore or Bjoern Werner, but still lacks ideal speed to play OLB for us. Could do a solid job as SOLB vs. run and as a pass rusher only. No chance in coverage or in space. Stiffness not as much a problem as lack of quickness


Last edited by kethnaab on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9846
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

popie70 wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
at23steelers wrote:

Sidenote: Also, can you try to find a video where Worilds beats a tackle so we can stop beating this dead horse!! Thanks!


gotta go back to his days at Virginia Tech. He beat a RT on an inside spin move this season, once, but the QB already got the ball away. All his sacks were against RB, TE, or after 4-5 seconds where the QB ran right at him after getting flushed from the pocket. His Gildong sack total in the NFL is 10 for 10


I haven't watched nearly as much film as you have but what do you think about FSU's other guy Jenkins? Do you think he would be a better fit for us?


I was a big fan of Brandon Jenkins pre-injury, but he is in molasses right now, and I'm not sure he'll ever get out. I just don't feel comfortable without seeing him post-injury
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Pittsburgh Steelers All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group