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Draft 2013 - WR
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 21266
Location: Beat Of My Own Drum
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Draft 2013 - WR Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
he'll be as good as Chad Ochocinco and Brandon Lloyd at best IMO.


The fact that he is so much better with the ball in his hands than these guys ever were makes this one of the most uneducated posts I have ever come across.
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NoFlyZone wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
Why would I choose No Fly Zone? Dude is the biggest Dez Bryant homer.

Hey man, NBT hasn't been doing a good enough job with his receiver homerism. Someone has to step up.
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TomRalph


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
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Location: Revis Island
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Draft 2013 - WR Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
he'll be as good as Chad Ochocinco and Brandon Lloyd at best IMO.


The fact that he is so much better with the ball in his hands than these guys ever were makes this one of the most uneducated posts I have ever come across.


I'm not making direct comparisons in terms of Player X is like Player Y, surely that is obvious to you in that I was comparing Patriots WR's that were expected to produce as they had with other teams that flamed out for the Pats. I believe that Patterson will be a good WR on a different team with a more simplistic offensive playbook. But in the Pats scheme which is as complex as they come with a QB with whom it is notoriously difficult (in the last couple of years) to create chemistry with I believe Patterson would not have the success he's expected to achieve.
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trivium2009


Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 472
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Draft 2013 - WR Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
With just a few days until the draft, and the general feeling that the Pats will be looking to pick up a WR or two (though, Belichick has been known to pass on positions of need), I thought it would be interesting to see where the forum stood in terms of the prospects. So fill in the blanks:

The WR I hope the Pats draft is:
The WR I hope the Pats do not draft is:
The WR who will fit the Pats scheme is:
The WR who is the worst fit for the Pats scheme is:

If they take a WR in round 1 I hope it is:
If they take a WR in round 2 I hope it is:
If they take a WR in round 3 I hope it is:
If they take a WR after round 3 I hope it is:

If they pass on ___________ in round ____ I will throw my TV out the window:

Rank these WR's the order that you prefer for the Patriots (might not be the overall rank you have them, some guys fit better than others):

Cordarrelle Patterson
Tavon Austin
Quinton Patton
Keenan Allen
Robert Woods
Stedman Bailey
DeAndre Hopkins
Justin Hunter
Aaron Dobson
Markus Wheaton



The WR I hope the Pats draft is: Aaron Dobson- Has the best hands out of any WR in this draft class and has great body control. I don't understand why everyone is so down on him.
The WR I hope the Pats do not draft is: Robert Woods- In my mind he is an over-rated WR. He doesn't have outstanding leaping ability nor does he have great speed. His hands are questionable too.
The WR who will fit the Pats scheme is: Aaron Dobson- This is the type of WR the Patriots need. Great Hands, Great Body Control, Gets Seperation, and Will Go Over The Middle.
The WR who is the worst fit for the Pats scheme is: Tavon Auston- Too small a WR for the New Patriots.

If they take a WR in round 1 I hope it is: Justin Hunter- Great Upside
If they take a WR in round 2 I hope it is: Aaron Dobson- Became my favorite WR in the draft.
If they take a WR in round 3 I hope it is: Markus Wheaton- Can play all over the field, Slot, and or X
If they take a WR after round 3 I hope it is: Dennard Robinson- If we are drafting a WR outside of our first 3 picks it will be for best potential. But that best not be our only WR pick in this draft.

If they pass on Aaron Dobson in round 2 I will throw my TV out the window:

Rank these WR's the order that you prefer for the Patriots (might not be the overall rank you have them, some guys fit better than others):

Aaron Dobson
Justin Hunter
Markus Wheaton
Cordarrelle Patterson
DeAndre Hopkins
Da'Rick Rodgers
Tavon Austin
Quinton Patton
Keenan Allen
Robert Woods
Stedman Bailey
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 21266
Location: Beat Of My Own Drum
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Draft 2013 - WR Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
he'll be as good as Chad Ochocinco and Brandon Lloyd at best IMO.


The fact that he is so much better with the ball in his hands than these guys ever were makes this one of the most uneducated posts I have ever come across.


I'm not making direct comparisons in terms of Player X is like Player Y, surely that is obvious to you in that I was comparing Patriots WR's that were expected to produce as they had with other teams that flamed out for the Pats. I believe that Patterson will be a good WR on a different team with a more simplistic offensive playbook. But in the Pats scheme which is as complex as they come with a QB with whom it is notoriously difficult (in the last couple of years) to create chemistry with I believe Patterson would not have the success he's expected to achieve.


What?

As far as chemistry - Moss, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Edleman, Branch, and even Lloyd all were just fine in terms of chemistry. Galloway, Holt, and Ocho are the only real examples of guys Brady struggled with, and that was moreso Tom being a bit rusty with Galloway, Holt not having it anymore, and Chad being underused.

Something you are totally underestimating is how easy is to have 'chemistry' with a near 6'3 burner with all the talent in the world.

As far as scheme - Patterson would have an extremely different role in our 'scheme' than any of the guys you mentioned, first of all. All of those guys ran timing routes dependent on moves and cuts to get open. None possessed anything resembling Pattersons athleticism, which is much more in vein of Randy Moss. Moss didn't make too many cuts when he was here (those days were pretty much gone), his job was to time his acceleration to outrun guys. Patterson will be the same way.

Lastly, your comprehension of how 'schemes' work in the NFL is off base. Yes, to a degree, the Patriots will target players who they believe fit their scheme. But you better believe that scheme will 'adjust' to incorporate certain players effectively. Opting to say CP is a poor fit of scheme is very silly. Clearly Josh McDaniels would find a way to incorporate Pattersons skills. I will say, had Josh McDaniels been here in 2011 with ochocinco, I think Chad has a much bigger season. May not be worth keeping for 2012, but hardly the mr. irrelevant he ended up being.

Pattersons skills do not fit into our offense as easily as Hunters, but CP is still an excellent fit. Hunter is just perfection. Very Happy
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NoFlyZone wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
Why would I choose No Fly Zone? Dude is the biggest Dez Bryant homer.

Hey man, NBT hasn't been doing a good enough job with his receiver homerism. Someone has to step up.


Last edited by NextBigThing on Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 8518
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Draft 2013 - WR Reply with quote

The WR I hope the Pats draft is: Robert Woods or DeAndre Hopkins
The WR I hope the Pats do not draft is: Cordarrelle Patterson or Justin Hunter
The WR who will fit the Pats scheme is: Robert Woods, DeAndre Hopkins, Keenan Allen, Markus Wheaton, Stedman Bailey and Quinton Patton
The WR who is the worst fit for the Pats scheme is: Cordarrelle Patterson - won't learn it. Terrance Williams - pure vertical receiver.

If they take a WR in round 1 I hope it is: Robert Woods
If they take a WR in round 2 I hope it is: Markus Wheaton
If they take a WR in round 3 I hope it is: Steadman Bailey
If they take a WR after round 3 I hope it is: Tavarres King

If they pass on ___________ in round ____ I will throw my TV out the window: No-one applies here, take the BVA - doesn't have to be a receiver.

Rank these WR's the order that you prefer for the Patriots (might not be the overall rank you have them, some guys fit better than others):

Tavon Austin
Robert Woods
Keenan Allen
DeAndre Hopkins
Markus Wheaton
Stedman Bailey
Quinton Patton
Aaron Dobson
Justin Hunter
Cordarrelle Patterson
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 21266
Location: Beat Of My Own Drum
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How on Earth is a "pure vertical receiver" something other what we need? Laughing Yes, lets replace Brandon Lloyd with a crappier version of Brandon Lloyd! Laughing That is the key to improving.

If we cannot find a way to use this type of athleticism -




- than the failure is at the coaches level.
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NoFlyZone wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
Why would I choose No Fly Zone? Dude is the biggest Dez Bryant homer.

Hey man, NBT hasn't been doing a good enough job with his receiver homerism. Someone has to step up.
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TomRalph


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 9845
Location: Revis Island
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Draft 2013 - WR Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
he'll be as good as Chad Ochocinco and Brandon Lloyd at best IMO.


The fact that he is so much better with the ball in his hands than these guys ever were makes this one of the most uneducated posts I have ever come across.


I'm not making direct comparisons in terms of Player X is like Player Y, surely that is obvious to you in that I was comparing Patriots WR's that were expected to produce as they had with other teams that flamed out for the Pats. I believe that Patterson will be a good WR on a different team with a more simplistic offensive playbook. But in the Pats scheme which is as complex as they come with a QB with whom it is notoriously difficult (in the last couple of years) to create chemistry with I believe Patterson would not have the success he's expected to achieve.


What?

As far as chemistry - Moss, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Edleman, Branch, and even Lloyd all were just fine in terms of chemistry. Galloway, Holt, and Ocho are the only real examples of guys Brady struggled with, and that was moreso Tom being a bit rusty with Galloway, Holt not having it anymore, and Chad being underused.

Something you are totally underestimating is how easy is to have 'chemistry' with a near 6'3 burner with all the talent in the world.

As far as scheme - Patterson would have an extremely different role in our 'scheme' than any of the guys you mentioned, first of all. All of those guys ran timing routes dependent on moves and cuts to get open. None possessed anything resembling Pattersons athleticism, which is much more in vein of Randy Moss. Moss didn't make too many cuts when he was here (those days were pretty much gone), his job was to time his acceleration to outrun guys. Patterson will be the same way.

Lastly, your comprehension of how 'schemes' work in the NFL is off base. Yes, to a degree, the Patriots will target players who they believe fit their scheme. But you better believe that scheme will 'adjust' to incorporate certain players effectively. Opting to say CP is a poor fit of scheme is very silly. Clearly Josh McDaniels would find a way to incorporate Pattersons skills. I will say, had Josh McDaniels been here in 2011 with ochocinco, I think Chad has a much bigger season. May not be worth keeping for 2012, but hardly the mr. irrelevant he ended up being.

Pattersons skills do not fit into our offense as easily as Hunters, but CP is still an excellent fit. Hunter is just perfection. Very Happy


rabbisson wrote:
From Greg Bedard's story today:

Quote:
“It creates a separation between the young player and the rest of the offense,” said a team source. “Some kid from Tennessee, Cordarrelle Patterson, he’s not going to learn Day One of the offense and Brady’s never going to run Day One offense. So, there lies the problem.”


I'm not on my own...

(Cheers Rab)
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 8518
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
How on Earth is a "pure vertical receiver" something other what we need? Laughing Yes, lets replace Brandon Lloyd with a crappier version of Brandon Lloyd! Laughing That is the key to improving.

If we cannot find a way to use this type of athleticism -




- than the failure is at the coaches level.


Do you ever think you're a fan of the wrong team? Wink
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I_GET_SAX


Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 5585
Location: The Granite State
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: Draft 2013 - WR Reply with quote

Awesome idea Murts!

mcmurtry86 wrote:
With just a few days until the draft, and the general feeling that the Pats will be looking to pick up a WR or two (though, Belichick has been known to pass on positions of need), I thought it would be interesting to see where the forum stood in terms of the prospects. So fill in the blanks:

The WR I hope the Pats draft is: Justin Hunter
The WR I hope the Pats do not draft is: Tavon Austin
The WR who will fit the Pats scheme is: Justin Hunter
The WR who is the worst fit for the Pats scheme Tavon Austin
If they take a WR in round 1 I hope it is: Justin Hunter
If they take a WR in round 2 I hope it is: Da'Rick Rogers
If they take a WR in round 3 I hope it is: Stedman Bailey
If they take a WR after round 3 I hope it is: Ryan Swope
If they pass on Justin Hunter in round 2 I will throw my TV out the window:

Rank these WR's the order that you prefer for the Patriots (might not be the overall rank you have them, some guys fit better than others):

4)Cordarrelle Patterson
10)Tavon Austin
6)Quinton Patton
8)Keenan Allen
2)Robert Woods
5)Stedman Bailey
3)DeAndre Hopkins
1)Justin Hunter
9)Aaron Dobson
7)Markus Wheaton
[/b]
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nextsuperstar


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Posts: 1708
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The WR I hope the Pats draft is: Robert Woods
The WR I hope the Pats do not draft is: Justin Hunter
The WR who will fit the Pats scheme is: Woods
The WR who is the worst fit for the Pats scheme is: Tavon Austin

If they take a WR in round 1 I hope it is: No one
If they take a WR in round 2 I hope it is: Woods
If they take a WR in round 3 I hope it is: Terrance Williams
If they take a WR after round 3 I hope it is: Terrance Williams

If they pass on defense in round 1 I will throw my TV out the window.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 23051
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nextsuperstar wrote:

The WR who is the worst fit for the Pats scheme is: Tavon Austin


Would like to hear your thoughts on this
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nextsuperstar


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Posts: 1708
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
nextsuperstar wrote:

The WR who is the worst fit for the Pats scheme is: Tavon Austin


Would like to hear your thoughts on this


I guess my issue with Tavon Austin is not so much his ability to play in the Patriots system in a vacuum, but rather what role he would have on the patriots with the current personnel. I see Austin as being relegated to the slot. The Patriots are currently paying Danny Amendola big money to (presumably) play slot. Therefore, Austin is a bad fit for the Patriots as I am skeptical about his ability to play on the outside with his size and weight. He would have a place in the scheme, if the Patriots chose not to sign Amendola.
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patsfan06


Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 2769
Location: Chestnut Hill
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nextsuperstar wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
nextsuperstar wrote:

The WR who is the worst fit for the Pats scheme is: Tavon Austin


Would like to hear your thoughts on this


I guess my issue with Tavon Austin is not so much his ability to play in the Patriots system in a vacuum, but rather what role he would have on the patriots with the current personnel. I see Austin as being relegated to the slot. The Patriots are currently paying Danny Amendola big money to (presumably) play slot. Therefore, Austin is a bad fit for the Patriots as I am skeptical about his ability to play on the outside with his size and weight. He would have a place in the scheme, if the Patriots chose not to sign Amendola.


So your issue isn't that he is the worst fit for our scheme. It's that there is no "need" for him on the team.

Austin seems like a perfect scheme fit. Just extremely unnecessary cause we need someone to stretch the field.
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nextsuperstar


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Posts: 1708
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan06 wrote:
nextsuperstar wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
nextsuperstar wrote:

The WR who is the worst fit for the Pats scheme is: Tavon Austin


Would like to hear your thoughts on this


I guess my issue with Tavon Austin is not so much his ability to play in the Patriots system in a vacuum, but rather what role he would have on the patriots with the current personnel. I see Austin as being relegated to the slot. The Patriots are currently paying Danny Amendola big money to (presumably) play slot. Therefore, Austin is a bad fit for the Patriots as I am skeptical about his ability to play on the outside with his size and weight. He would have a place in the scheme, if the Patriots chose not to sign Amendola.


So your issue isn't that he is the worst fit for our scheme. It's that there is no "need" for him on the team.

Austin seems like a perfect scheme fit. Just extremely unnecessary cause we need someone to stretch the field.


I guess I would say there is no place for him in the game plan due to the team makeup. Most of the other top WR at least have some place on this roster in theory.
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24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 7592
Location: Where the Patriots are
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
nextsuperstar wrote:

The WR who is the worst fit for the Pats scheme is: Tavon Austin


Would like to hear your thoughts on this


I think its a fair statement, for more reasons than just the "redundancy factor". His route running and intelligence have both been questioned, and we have no idea if he can "go over the middle" either. All of those will be issues in NE. On top of the fact that he'll have to learn to beat the jam with Amendola in the fold, or otherwise push Amendola to the outside. I'd rather have his teammate.

I hate making bold comparisons because you're invariably wrong, but Bailey reminds me of (the real) Steve Smith.
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