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If Atlanta wants to trade up with us, do we make the deal?
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SuperFlyTNT


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 452
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

younggun1273 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Show me the first 6 picks then I'll make a decision. If Joeckel, Fisher, Jordan and Johnson were gone I think they'd move down instead of taking a OG or Pass-Rusher (not named Jordan). I'm warming on Johnson cause BA has to be wise enough to move Levi inside instead of Massie. I think all his talk these past few weeks are a smokescreen.


I have been saying this for ages. The problem is we just might have to accept that it will not happen. Levi does have the ideal size for a right guard and certainly has the skill set to do well at that position. If we did that and took Lane Johnson, the line would be phenomenal. But life is never that easy...


So this is the line:

Johnson-Colledge-Sendlein-Brown-Massie

I definitely see that as a major upgrade depending on how Lane Johnson's development goes - he's got a high ceiling, but I think some people may be putting too much stock into the fact that he's shown good improvement without playing the position very long - as if he can come into the NFL and make another big leap in improvement using his great athleticism. Personally at #7 I'd rather have a more polished prospect - if Joeckel or Fisher are there it's a no-brainer.

This is a major upgrade though mostly because you're putting Levi in place of Adam Snyder. Also, on paper the run blocking should improve going from Potter to Johnson at LT. Even in this scenario I support doing something about LG and perhaps center - Daryn Colledge's contract is terrible - he needs to be let go as late as after this coming season if his play doesn't improve to justify the salary. Lyle hasn't been healthy and his performance dropped off recently - not sure how Scott Wedige is coming along, but he was just a rookie free-agent last year.

Look at this line though:

Brown-Colledge-Sendlein-Warford-Massie

I know a lot of you aren't big Levi fans - but if we try this out and see if he's really as good as the latter half of his 2011 season at LT - we already know he's a great run-blocker. This can be the scenario just using our 2nd round pick - the first round pick used for whatever BPA or traded, etc. - and we still have a result similar to the upgrade in the first scenario.
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SuperFlyTNT


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 452
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iRobot wrote:
SuperFlyTNT wrote:
DJ_Fka wrote:
Watson would be ok, still like Fluker a little more

Even as a Nole fan

Feel Fluker would be a brilliant RG


Fluker as an RG - I'm all for that - just have to make sure we know he's cool with that transition because some guys aren't very happy about it due to the perceived ability to make more money in the future playing tackle.


Mayock on Conf. Call right now just said that he thinks Joeckel, Fisher, and Johnson will all be gone before Arizona even picks. And that Fluker will be gone by the time the Dolphins are on the board, likely to San Diego as they are in dire need of OL help.


Wow - crazy - we definitely don't want to get involved in a run on a particular position - that's one way to get bad value for your pick. I like Fluker - but all the way up past Miami now?
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khodder


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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperFlyTNT wrote:
Mayock on Conf. Call right now just said that he thinks Joeckel, Fisher, and Johnson will all be gone before Arizona even picks. And that Fluker will be gone by the time the Dolphins are on the board, likely to San Diego as they are in dire need of OL help.


Wow - crazy - we definitely don't want to get involved in a run on a particular position - that's one way to get bad value for your pick. I like Fluker - but all the way up past Miami now?[/quote]

Aww, come on... I said that three days ago an nobody cared Wink
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SuperFlyTNT


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 452
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
SuperFlyTNT wrote:
Mayock on Conf. Call right now just said that he thinks Joeckel, Fisher, and Johnson will all be gone before Arizona even picks. And that Fluker will be gone by the time the Dolphins are on the board, likely to San Diego as they are in dire need of OL help.


Wow - crazy - we definitely don't want to get involved in a run on a particular position - that's one way to get bad value for your pick. I like Fluker - but all the way up past Miami now?


Aww, come on... I said that three days ago an nobody cared Wink[/quote]

What was that Khodder? - didn't hear you Smile

Random attention spans ...
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If all the tackles are gone, doesnt that mean more D players falling to us?

Not necessarily a bad option
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJ_Fka wrote:
If all the tackles are gone, doesnt that mean more D players falling to us?

Not necessarily a bad option


Yeah but I'm really not confident in the "high end" defensive players in this draft.

You have:
Lotuleilei- we're rumored to be interested but he probably isn't a big upgrade over what we have already. We'd have a serious logjam on the DL which is only 3 spots. Also hate that he keeps being compared to Haloti Ngata. If that's who I thought we were getting I'd love the guy here regardless on who else we have but that's a bad comparison

Dion Jordan- Very raw and lacks strength. I'm not very high on him. I think he can only speed rush and that's it. Every single one of his sacks this year was running the arc. He doesn't have any other moves that are effective. He should be decent to good in coverage and vs the run but you don't take a one-dimensional pass rusher in the top 7 imo. He's a big risk.

Barkevious Mingo- basically what I said about Jordan. He's too inconsistent and a pretty big risk. I think he's a better pass rusher at this point than Jordan though.

Ansah- Again raw pass rusher who is inconsistent and a big risk
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
DJ_Fka wrote:
If all the tackles are gone, doesnt that mean more D players falling to us?

Not necessarily a bad option


Yeah but I'm really not confident in the "high end" defensive players in this draft.

You have:
Lotuleilei- we're rumored to be interested but he probably isn't a big upgrade over what we have already. We'd have a serious logjam on the DL which is only 3 spots. Also hate that he keeps being compared to Haloti Ngata. If that's who I thought we were getting I'd love the guy here regardless on who else we have but that's a bad comparison

Dion Jordan- Very raw and lacks strength. I'm not very high on him. I think he can only speed rush and that's it. Every single one of his sacks this year was running the arc. He doesn't have any other moves that are effective. He should be decent to good in coverage and vs the run but you don't take a one-dimensional pass rusher in the top 7 imo. He's a big risk.

Barkevious Mingo- basically what I said about Jordan. He's too inconsistent and a pretty big risk. I think he's a better pass rusher at this point than Jordan though.

Ansah- Again raw pass rusher who is inconsistent and a big risk


Give me Jordan or Mingo and I am happy.

Jordan is a rare player in that he is already very refined and very comfortbal playing in space. Go watch the Arizona game from 2013, Jordan basically played most of that game as a nickel CB and looked great doing so.

I think Mingo has the ability to be a top notch great pass rusher. A 13-16 sack guy consistently. He needs to continue to develop his craft, but his speed, bend and close is going to cause any NFL tackle issues from day one. So quick, so light on his feet and with room to grow technically.

I saw how inconsistent our pass rush was last season (Even from Calais) there was never any consistent pocket collapsing or edge pressure. We tended to get home a lot because of good coverage and great blitzes.
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LuckyNumber11


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really I think whoever we take at 7 outside of Warmack (Or if Fisher or Joekel somehow fell to us) would be a risk
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LuckyNumber11 wrote:
Really I think whoever we take at 7 outside of Warmack (Or if Fisher or Joekel somehow fell to us) would be a risk


I guarantee we are not taking Warmack at 7. We are not going that direction.

Sig Bet??
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LuckyNumber11


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
LuckyNumber11 wrote:
Really I think whoever we take at 7 outside of Warmack (Or if Fisher or Joekel somehow fell to us) would be a risk


I guarantee we are not taking Warmack at 7. We are not going that direction.

Sig Bet??


I don't think we will take him at 7 either. I think we will either role the dice with Johnson or a pass rusher. I hope I'm wrong and we take Warmack, I just don't see us doing. It's too safe almost
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AZPSquared


Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in favor of taking Mingo at 7 as long as OL is addressed in rounds 2 and/or 3. I like Armstead but he has very small hands (9.2).
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
DJ_Fka wrote:
If all the tackles are gone, doesnt that mean more D players falling to us?

Not necessarily a bad option


Yeah but I'm really not confident in the "high end" defensive players in this draft.

You have:
Lotuleilei- we're rumored to be interested but he probably isn't a big upgrade over what we have already. We'd have a serious logjam on the DL which is only 3 spots. Also hate that he keeps being compared to Haloti Ngata. If that's who I thought we were getting I'd love the guy here regardless on who else we have but that's a bad comparison

Dion Jordan- Very raw and lacks strength. I'm not very high on him. I think he can only speed rush and that's it. Every single one of his sacks this year was running the arc. He doesn't have any other moves that are effective. He should be decent to good in coverage and vs the run but you don't take a one-dimensional pass rusher in the top 7 imo. He's a big risk.

Barkevious Mingo- basically what I said about Jordan. He's too inconsistent and a pretty big risk. I think he's a better pass rusher at this point than Jordan though.

Ansah- Again raw pass rusher who is inconsistent and a big risk


Give me Jordan or Mingo and I am happy.

Jordan is a rare player in that he is already very refined and very comfortbal playing in space. Go watch the Arizona game from 2013, Jordan basically played most of that game as a nickel CB and looked great doing so.

I think Mingo has the ability to be a top notch great pass rusher. A 13-16 sack guy consistently. He needs to continue to develop his craft, but his speed, bend and close is going to cause any NFL tackle issues from day one. So quick, so light on his feet and with room to grow technically.

I saw how inconsistent our pass rush was last season (Even from Calais) there was never any consistent pocket collapsing or edge pressure. We tended to get home a lot because of good coverage and great blitzes.


Jordan is going to be very good in coverage I don't doubt that. But he was very underwhelming as a pass rusher. He doesn't push the pocket backwards and he doesn't have any effective moves (especially inside moves) to disengage from blockers. Sure he's rare in that he can cover but he has to get to the QB first and foremost. I think he's overrated. He's a top 15-20 prospect not a top 5 prospect.

I like Mingo a lot too. That burst he has off the line is ridiculous. He could speed rush all day on slow footed right tackles but he also plays with some power and at least attempts to throw some moves in there. I wanted Mingo on this team but at #7 he's just not BPA. He's a reach.
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apollo14000


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
I'm in favor of taking Mingo at 7 as long as OL is addressed in rounds 2 and/or 3. I like Armstead but he has very small hands (9.2).


Hand size? really? Arm length is one thing to criticize because it can make a noticeable difference but hand size is relevant for receivers and QBs who need to catch/grip the ball. I'm not going to hold a lineman's hand size against him.
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
I'm in favor of taking Mingo at 7 as long as OL is addressed in rounds 2 and/or 3. I like Armstead but he has very small hands (9.2).


Hand size? really? Arm length is one thing to criticize because it can make a noticeable difference but hand size is relevant for receivers and QBs who need to catch/grip the ball. I'm not going to hold a lineman's hand size against him.


OL need to get good hand position on the defender
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
LuckyNumber11 wrote:
Really I think whoever we take at 7 outside of Warmack (Or if Fisher or Joekel somehow fell to us) would be a risk


I guarantee we are not taking Warmack at 7. We are not going that direction.

Sig Bet??


Cooper might be the better fit depending on our OL scheme. I think Champ hinted that on twitter a while back... I don't think Jordan will be there either. If 3 of the first 6 picks really are tackles Jordan will definitely take up one of the other three spots.
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