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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Romo performs like an elite QB while playing in a non-QB friendly system. I think if you would take him and put him on the Packers, Falcons, or Broncos he would be very, very good.

Put Aaron Rodgers on the Cowboys and he probably wouldn't even perform as well as Romo does.
Actually he would probably get killed.

I live in Wisconsin and all my friends are Packer fans, so I have this argument all the time Smile


Rodgers actually performs with a not-so-great offensive line either...


His line isn't great, but they're decent. I watched every single Packers game last season, Rodgers usually had all day to throw. Hes honestly really bad at sensing pressure and getting the ball out quick enough. Hes not very good at all at avoiding the pressure once it breaks free either. Half the time he'll run straight into a sack.

Romo would be more than fine with that o-line.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoFlyZone wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Romo performs like an elite QB while playing in a non-QB friendly system. I think if you would take him and put him on the Packers, Falcons, or Broncos he would be very, very good.

Put Aaron Rodgers on the Cowboys and he probably wouldn't even perform as well as Romo does.
Actually he would probably get killed.

I live in Wisconsin and all my friends are Packer fans, so I have this argument all the time Smile


Rodgers actually performs with a not-so-great offensive line either...


His line isn't great, but they're decent. I watched every single Packers game last season, Rodgers usually had all day to throw. Hes honestly really bad at sensing pressure and getting the ball out quick enough. Hes not very good at all at avoiding the pressure once it breaks free either. Half the time he'll run straight into a sack.

Romo would be more than fine with that o-line.


Um, I'm not sure what Packers games you watched, but that's not how Aaron Rodgers plays. Green Bay's o-line is better than ours, but not by much. The reason Rodgers is successful is partially due to scheme and partially due to his intelligence, savvy, discipline, decision making, and ability to sense and escape the pass rush. Unlike Dallas, Green Bay doesn't call long developing plays. They're 3-step, quick screens and slants, not 5 and 7 step drops. That's why Romo runs for his life. We run a version of Don Coryell's "Air" offense, where Green Bay runs a very traditional WCO, so Rodgers having "all day to throw" is nonsense. The ball is never in his hands long enough for that to factor in. McCarthy adjusts his playcalling to limit the impact of the weakest aspect of the offense: the o-line. He gets the ball out of Rodgers' hands quickly to lessen the potential for negative plays due to a very sub-par unit.

So in my opinion, putting Aaron Rodgers on this team would net similar results, just with fewer INTs because Rodgers doesn't force his throws nearly as often as Romo.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hope we get Romo some significant OL help, and an additional RB just to see how he performs, and there can be no more excuses.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
I really hope we get Romo some significant OL help, and an additional RB just to see how he performs, and there can be no more excuses.


GD, we both know that people will always have excuses regardless of how poorly he plays. Hell, we can even list some of them right here and now:

1. The o-line was still too inexperienced to help him.
2. We didn't do enough on o-line in the draft for the new guys to really help.
3. The defense still stinks, so those INTs can't be hung on Romo.
4. It's a team sport, remember?
5. His WRs ran the wrong route.
6. Those passes were tipped.
7. The defensive holding and PIs weren't called.
8. Garrett didn't make any adjustments.

I could go on, but you already know that the same tired excuses will arise every time he tanks a game. We've been hearing them for years, so why would they be any different now?
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Baixis


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Romo performs like an elite QB while playing in a non-QB friendly system. I think if you would take him and put him on the Packers, Falcons, or Broncos he would be very, very good.

Put Aaron Rodgers on the Cowboys and he probably wouldn't even perform as well as Romo does.
Actually he would probably get killed.

I live in Wisconsin and all my friends are Packer fans, so I have this argument all the time Smile


Rodgers actually performs with a not-so-great offensive line either...


His line isn't great, but they're decent. I watched every single Packers game last season, Rodgers usually had all day to throw. Hes honestly really bad at sensing pressure and getting the ball out quick enough. Hes not very good at all at avoiding the pressure once it breaks free either. Half the time he'll run straight into a sack.

Romo would be more than fine with that o-line.


Um, I'm not sure what Packers games you watched, but that's not how Aaron Rodgers plays. Green Bay's o-line is better than ours, but not by much. The reason Rodgers is successful is partially due to scheme and partially due to his intelligence, savvy, discipline, decision making, and ability to sense and escape the pass rush. Unlike Dallas, Green Bay doesn't call long developing plays. They're 3-step, quick screens and slants, not 5 and 7 step drops. That's why Romo runs for his life. We run a version of Don Coryell's "Air" offense, where Green Bay runs a very traditional WCO, so Rodgers having "all day to throw" is nonsense. The ball is never in his hands long enough for that to factor in. McCarthy adjusts his playcalling to limit the impact of the weakest aspect of the offense: the o-line. He gets the ball out of Rodgers' hands quickly to lessen the potential for negative plays due to a very sub-par unit.

So in my opinion, putting Aaron Rodgers on this team would net similar results, just with fewer INTs because Rodgers doesn't force his throws nearly as often as Romo.


With this in mind though Plan, those excuses you listed above are quite accurate. I mean, put Romo on GB, and he would do just as good or better than Rodgers. Put the whole GB system into the Dallas offense, vs what Red does, and Romo would probably play much better for us too. Yes?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baixis wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Romo performs like an elite QB while playing in a non-QB friendly system. I think if you would take him and put him on the Packers, Falcons, or Broncos he would be very, very good.

Put Aaron Rodgers on the Cowboys and he probably wouldn't even perform as well as Romo does.
Actually he would probably get killed.

I live in Wisconsin and all my friends are Packer fans, so I have this argument all the time Smile


Rodgers actually performs with a not-so-great offensive line either...


His line isn't great, but they're decent. I watched every single Packers game last season, Rodgers usually had all day to throw. Hes honestly really bad at sensing pressure and getting the ball out quick enough. Hes not very good at all at avoiding the pressure once it breaks free either. Half the time he'll run straight into a sack.

Romo would be more than fine with that o-line.


Um, I'm not sure what Packers games you watched, but that's not how Aaron Rodgers plays. Green Bay's o-line is better than ours, but not by much. The reason Rodgers is successful is partially due to scheme and partially due to his intelligence, savvy, discipline, decision making, and ability to sense and escape the pass rush. Unlike Dallas, Green Bay doesn't call long developing plays. They're 3-step, quick screens and slants, not 5 and 7 step drops. That's why Romo runs for his life. We run a version of Don Coryell's "Air" offense, where Green Bay runs a very traditional WCO, so Rodgers having "all day to throw" is nonsense. The ball is never in his hands long enough for that to factor in. McCarthy adjusts his playcalling to limit the impact of the weakest aspect of the offense: the o-line. He gets the ball out of Rodgers' hands quickly to lessen the potential for negative plays due to a very sub-par unit.

So in my opinion, putting Aaron Rodgers on this team would net similar results, just with fewer INTs because Rodgers doesn't force his throws nearly as often as Romo.


With this in mind though Plan, those excuses you listed above are quite accurate. I mean, put Romo on GB, and he would do just as good or better than Rodgers. Put the whole GB system into the Dallas offense, vs what Red does, and Romo would probably play much better for us too. Yes?


I would think so, yes. As I've said many times, Romo is a guy who needs to be protected from himself. Much like Favre, he'll break down mentally if there isn't a coach who can keep him in line. Mike McCarthy would be able to implement an offense which would help limit Romo's mistakes. I have no doubt about that.
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Romo performs like an elite QB while playing in a non-QB friendly system. I think if you would take him and put him on the Packers, Falcons, or Broncos he would be very, very good.

Put Aaron Rodgers on the Cowboys and he probably wouldn't even perform as well as Romo does.
Actually he would probably get killed.

I live in Wisconsin and all my friends are Packer fans, so I have this argument all the time Smile


Rodgers actually performs with a not-so-great offensive line either...


His line isn't great, but they're decent. I watched every single Packers game last season, Rodgers usually had all day to throw. Hes honestly really bad at sensing pressure and getting the ball out quick enough. Hes not very good at all at avoiding the pressure once it breaks free either. Half the time he'll run straight into a sack.

Romo would be more than fine with that o-line.


Um, I'm not sure what Packers games you watched, but that's not how Aaron Rodgers plays. Green Bay's o-line is better than ours, but not by much. The reason Rodgers is successful is partially due to scheme and partially due to his intelligence, savvy, discipline, decision making, and ability to sense and escape the pass rush. Unlike Dallas, Green Bay doesn't call long developing plays. They're 3-step, quick screens and slants, not 5 and 7 step drops. That's why Romo runs for his life. We run a version of Don Coryell's "Air" offense, where Green Bay runs a very traditional WCO, so Rodgers having "all day to throw" is nonsense. The ball is never in his hands long enough for that to factor in. McCarthy adjusts his playcalling to limit the impact of the weakest aspect of the offense: the o-line. He gets the ball out of Rodgers' hands quickly to lessen the potential for negative plays due to a very sub-par unit.

So in my opinion, putting Aaron Rodgers on this team would net similar results, just with fewer INTs because Rodgers doesn't force his throws nearly as often as Romo.


That's simply not the whole story. Most experts would agree that if Rodgers has a weakness, it's that he holds onto the ball too long and gets himself into trouble. Go back and watch GB vs NYG from last season, you'll see what I'm talking about. Hes a decent scrambler when he sees an opening and decides to take off, but other than that hes pretty mediocre at best at avoiding the rush. At times he honestly looks straight up oblivious to pressure. There is a reason why he was the most sacked QB last year, and the majority of the blame shouldn't go to his O-line. Basically anyone would agree that Dallas has the poorer quality of the two lines, yet Rodgers was sacked 15 times more than Romo was. Those numbers should be telling you something.

I guess hes pretty good at getting the ball out fast when his group of awesome receivers consistently get wide open all the time. When they don't, he has to hold onto the ball longer and runs into issues. Refer to: GB vs the Giants in the 2011 playoffs.

Pats4ever wrote:
After following Rodgers closely, I have started to see what I believe is a major flaw in his game. I don't think Rodgers' pocket presence is particularly good, and certainly not nearly as good as some of the other elite qbs. As other posters in this thread have pointed out, a lot of times it seems like he steps or sidesteps into the pressure instead of stepping up in the pocket.

Another problem connected to the pocket presence issue, is his unwillingness to throw an incompletion. Too many times Rodgers would rather hold on to the football and hope he can escape the pressure and make a big play down the field. More often that not the result is Rodgers getting sacked, putting his team in a worse situation.

Don't get me wrong, the few times he escapes and makes a spectacular play down the field, it's brilliant. But it does not outweigh all the times he holds on to the football for a little too long. As a quarterback it's your job to realize when the play is just not there and throw the ball away or low at the feet of a receiver. It's very rare I see Rodgers throwing the ball with the intention of it being an incomplete pass. He would rather try to improvise and make the big play down the field.

Since all the Rodgers supporters keep talking about how good his ratings and completion percentages are, my contention is that his stats are a bit inflated by the fact that he often ends up with a sack rather than an incompletion. Something that hurts his team, but not his personal stats.


^Boom.

Anyway, when it comes to handling pressure, Romo>>Rodgers. Therefore, since Rodgers would be under much more heat playing behind Dallas's o-line, he would either A.) Force more throws, or B.) Get sacked 21312321 times. He would make a lot more mistakes than he makes in GB, that's for certain.

Romo carries his team on his back. Rodgers is part of a system. To me, there is a big difference. That's why you see Romo with the ability to keep his team competitive vs anyone in the league, where as Rodgers disappears when he has to play against any team that is better than his own (playoff game vs 49ers from last season for example).


plan9misfit wrote:
Romo is a guy who needs to be protected from himself. Much like Favre, he'll break down mentally if there isn't a coach who can keep him in line.


Or you could just get him some help so he doesn't have to try and do everything by himself.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoFlyZone wrote:
That's simply not the whole story. Most experts would agree that if Rodgers has a weakness, it's that he holds onto the ball too long and gets himself into trouble. Go back and watch GB vs NYG from last season, you'll see what I'm talking about. Hes a decent scrambler when he sees an opening and decides to take off, but other than that hes pretty mediocre at best at avoiding the rush. At times he honestly looks straight up oblivious to pressure. There is a reason why he was the most sacked QB last year, and the majority of the blame shouldn't go to his O-line. Basically anyone would agree that Dallas has the poorer quality of the two lines, yet Rodgers was sacked 15 times more than Romo was. Those numbers should be telling you something.

I guess hes pretty good at getting the ball out fast when his group of awesome receivers consistently get wide open all the time. When they don't, he has to hold onto the ball longer and runs into issues. Refer to: GB vs the Giants in the 2011 playoffs.

Pats4ever wrote:
After following Rodgers closely, I have started to see what I believe is a major flaw in his game. I don't think Rodgers' pocket presence is particularly good, and certainly not nearly as good as some of the other elite qbs. As other posters in this thread have pointed out, a lot of times it seems like he steps or sidesteps into the pressure instead of stepping up in the pocket.

Another problem connected to the pocket presence issue, is his unwillingness to throw an incompletion. Too many times Rodgers would rather hold on to the football and hope he can escape the pressure and make a big play down the field. More often that not the result is Rodgers getting sacked, putting his team in a worse situation.

Don't get me wrong, the few times he escapes and makes a spectacular play down the field, it's brilliant. But it does not outweigh all the times he holds on to the football for a little too long. As a quarterback it's your job to realize when the play is just not there and throw the ball away or low at the feet of a receiver. It's very rare I see Rodgers throwing the ball with the intention of it being an incomplete pass. He would rather try to improvise and make the big play down the field.

Since all the Rodgers supporters keep talking about how good his ratings and completion percentages are, my contention is that his stats are a bit inflated by the fact that he often ends up with a sack rather than an incompletion. Something that hurts his team, but not his personal stats.


^Boom.

Anyway, when it comes to handling pressure, Romo>>Rodgers. Therefore, since Rodgers would be under much more heat playing behind Dallas's o-line, he would either A.) Force more throws, or B.) Get sacked 21312321 times. He would make a lot more mistakes than he makes in GB, that's for certain.

Romo carries his team on his back. Rodgers is part of a system. To me, there is a big difference. That's why you see Romo with the ability to keep his team competitive vs anyone in the league, where as Rodgers disappears when he has to play against any team that is better than his own (playoff game vs 49ers from last season for example).


So you're using the opinion of one poster as the reason to support your argument? Seriously? How can you even deem that credible?

And let's not talk about a QB disappearing in big, win-or-go-home games. Romo has made a career out of that.

Quote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Romo is a guy who needs to be protected from himself. Much like Favre, he'll break down mentally if there isn't a coach who can keep him in line.


Or you could just get him some help so he doesn't have to try and do everything by himself.


You left off the rest of my quote where I said that McCarthy would create a system for Romo to help him limit those mistakes. It's always great when you take things out of context to distort a statement.
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
So you're using the opinion of one poster as the reason to support your argument? Seriously? How can you even deem that credible?


I was merely using it as a perfect illustration of what I was trying to say. Basically that guy hit the nail on the head with a very good argument.

plan9misfit wrote:
And let's not talk about a QB disappearing in big, win-or-go-home games. Romo has made a career out of that.


I didn't say anything about "big, win-or-go-home games". Simply said Rodgers struggles to carry his team against superior units.

plan9misfit wrote:
You left off the rest of my quote where I said that McCarthy would create a system for Romo to help him limit those mistakes. It's always great when you take things out of context to distort a statement.


By saying "Romo needs to be protected from himself", you were implying that Romo himself is the major reason for his own/team failures and needed to be contained/ controlled by coaching. I disagree with you, which is what I was trying to state. Nothing was taken out of context.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoFlyZone wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
So you're using the opinion of one poster as the reason to support your argument? Seriously? How can you even deem that credible?


I was merely using it as a perfect illustration of what I was trying to say. Basically that guy hit the nail on the head with a very good argument.

plan9misfit wrote:
And let's not talk about a QB disappearing in big, win-or-go-home games. Romo has made a career out of that.


I didn't say anything about "big, win-or-go-home games". Simply said Rodgers struggles to carry his team against superior units.


You mean units like that "inferior" Pittsburgh team in the Super Bowl, right? Oh, wait....

Quote:
By saying "Romo needs to be protected from himself", you were implying that Romo himself is the major reason for his own/team failures and needed to be contained/ controlled by coaching. I disagree with you, which is what I was trying to state. Nothing was taken out of context.


Yes, it was taken out of context because you intentionally left out the rest of the statement. Romo has single handedly tanked games when he melts down mentally. We've seen it happen. And, a coach like McCarthy would call a game in such a way where Romo's propensity to get cases of the yips and become a human turnover machine would be greatly reduced. Good coaches understand how to control their QBs and call plays in ways to keep them from making massive mistakes.
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
You mean units like that "inferior" Pittsburgh team in the Super Bowl, right? Oh, wait....


Yeah, congrats to him for the Superbowl win, even though his whole team was pretty terrific during that playoff run. That being said, he generally has never really been able to put the team on his back and beat teams that are superior to his (and there aren't many that are superior). When the going gets tough for the Packers, I don't see Rodger's elevate his play. If the Packers are getting beat down in a game before halftime, they're probably going to lose because Rodgers can't rally and put the team on his back. If the guys around him aren't good enough to win the game, he sinks with them. Systemquarterback.com Rolling Eyes

plan9misfit wrote:
Yes, it was taken out of context because you intentionally left out the rest of the statement. Romo has single handedly tanked games when he melts down mentally. We've seen it happen. And, a coach like McCarthy would call a game in such a way where Romo's propensity to get cases of the yips and become a human turnover machine would be greatly reduced. Good coaches understand how to control their QBs and call plays in ways to keep them from making massive mistakes.


I'm simply saying those yips are caused by lack of help around him. Part of that, like you said, comes down to coaching. I feel like Romo makes mistakes because he tries to do too much. When you consistently feel the pressure of having to carry the team on your back bad things can happen.


Anyway, though we don't agree on the details of the matter, I think we can both agree that Romo doesn't play in a very QB-friendly environment compared to what other "elite" QBs play in, and would definitely benefit playing in a system similar to what they have in Green Bay.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoFlyZone wrote:
I'm simply saying those yips are caused by lack of help around him. Part of that, like you said, comes down to coaching. I feel like Romo makes mistakes because he tries to do too much. When you consistently feel the pressure of having to carry the team on your back bad things can happen.


I fully agree that some of it is based on the lack of help around him. But, even when we had a solid o-line, he still choked games away. It's in his DNA. As gifted as he is, he doesn't have it mentally.

Quote:
Anyway, though we don't agree on the details of the matter, I think we can both agree that Romo doesn't play in a very QB-friendly environment compared to what other "elite" QBs play in, and would definitely benefit playing in a system similar to what they have in Green Bay.


Romo doesn't play in anything remotely close to QB friendly because Joan and Company are too bloody stupid to surround him with an offensive line. As I've said many, many times; if you give Romo an o-line like that in San Francisco, we're a 12-4 team. Obviously, I have no idea whether it would also amount to playoff success, but it would absolutely lead to regular season success because everyone on offense gets better when you have a dominant offensive line.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Defense. Simple, if we didn't give up 30 damn pts a game we would have a better record... the saints game is a prime example.

The redskins game (romo played poorly), I would still give ultimate blame to a defense that put up 200+ yrds and 3 tds to a single hb.

If you said team "X" had 1 rb with 200+ yrds and 3 tds in a single game, without any other info, I would say team "X" won the game % 80 of the time...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and the bs about his dna and mental mudgetness (lol)... romo has among the most comeback performances in the league. Moreover, we notoriously lose 15 pt leads in the 4th, placing romo in lose lose situations, game in, game out
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