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The Purple People's Poll #25 (Vikings on the clock)
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Who will das Spiel pick at #25?
WR DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson
30%
 30%  [ 18 ]
WR Robert Woods, USC
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
CB Jamar Taylor, Boise State
8%
 8%  [ 5 ]
DT Sylvester Williams, UNC
41%
 41%  [ 25 ]
CB Desmond Trufant, Washington
8%
 8%  [ 5 ]
DE Damontre Moore, Texas A&M
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Other (Please state who and why)
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 60

Author Message
vikesnewcoach11


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 1602
Location: Watertown, New York
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KeithVikings28 wrote:
Go look up their defensive statistics after the loss against Alabama. It's National Championship or bust for LSU.

What happened to Hopkins against the best secondaries he played all season? FSU 5 catches 88 yards, 60 from busted coverage, VT 3 catches 68 yards, NCSU 2 catches 75 yards, South Carolina 1 catch 43 yards. Hopkins disappears against top flight competition. Hopkins only had 2 games where he caught more than 7 passes. Justin Hunter has 6 games where he caught more than 7 passes. Hunter>Hopkins.


And 1 out of the 6 games came against ranked opponents so whats your point??? That argument doesnt work whatsoever. And to add in...Hunters hands are wayyyy too inconsistent. The last WR we drafted because he was "fast" was Williamson and we all saw how that turned out. Inconsistent hands and he was out of the league in no time. Outside of speed what does Hunter have??? Height?? Well like I said above, Hopkins plays much taller than 6'1.

Hopkins put up 13 for 191 vs LSU. I dont care what anyone says...LSU had one of the best defenses in college football. The 6 game Hunter argument just doesnt work...sorry.
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ViKingHopeful


Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil Uno wrote:
I agree that Hopkins is clearly the superior prospect. Patton is a small guy who will make a living on winning routes, similar to a Greg Jennings or a Reggie Wayne. Hopkins is in the same boat but offers more to his game.


If I had to make comparisons for these guys, I'd say:
Quinton Patton = Greg Jennings
Robert Woods = Reggie Wayne
DeAndre Hopkins = Roddy White

With Hopkins having the greatest chance of reaching that potential.
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KeithVikings28


Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 2805
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikesnewcoach11 wrote:
KeithVikings28 wrote:
Go look up their defensive statistics after the loss against Alabama. It's National Championship or bust for LSU.

What happened to Hopkins against the best secondaries he played all season? FSU 5 catches 88 yards, 60 from busted coverage, VT 3 catches 68 yards, NCSU 2 catches 75 yards, South Carolina 1 catch 43 yards. Hopkins disappears against top flight competition. Hopkins only had 2 games where he caught more than 7 passes. Justin Hunter has 6 games where he caught more than 7 passes. Hunter>Hopkins.


And 1 out of the 6 games came against ranked opponents so whats your point??? That argument doesnt work whatsoever. And to add in...Hunters hands are wayyyy too inconsistent. The last WR we drafted because he was "fast" was Williamson and we all saw how that turned out. Inconsistent hands and he was out of the league in no time. Outside of speed what does Hunter have??? Height?? Well like I said above, Hopkins plays much taller than 6'1.

Hopkins put up 13 for 191 vs LSU. I dont care what anyone says...LSU had one of the best defenses in college football. The 6 game Hunter argument just doesnt work...sorry.


So every person with speed is comparable to Troy Williamson? Very intelligent comparison. Hopkins does not play bigger than he really is. You probably just read little scouting reports, instead of doing the homework yourself. Until this season, Hunter was actually known for having great hands. His drops were mainly lack of focus. He had a terrible coach, who constantly threw his players under the bus, a inconsistent QB, and a child this season. He will be the best WR is this years draft. He has speed, size, jumping ability, and makes amazing catches. LSU sucked after they lost to Alabama. If you put a lot of emphasis on a Bowl Game, which has absolutely zero meaning to an SEC team, you're not worth arguing with. After the Alabama loss, LSU gave up over 400 yards of offense in every game and allowed several WRs to have 120+ yards
.
WRs against LSU after being removed from the NC chase.

MSU Chad Bumphis- 9 catches 140 yards.
OLE MISS Donte Moncrief 6 catches 161 yards.
ARK- Cobi Hamilton 9 catches 98 yards.


Pretty sure they didn't allow a WR 100 yards before the loss.
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CriminalMind


Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 8631
Location: Toronto, CA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because Allen & Patterson may finally be rightfully downgraded, does not mean that Hopkins should be upgraded.

Draft slot should remain constant, since his talent level didnt improve.
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Harvey Wallbang


Joined: 06 Mar 2013
Posts: 43
Location: Mpls
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Just because Allen & Patterson may finally be rightfully downgraded, does not mean that Hopkins should be upgraded.

Draft slot should remain constant, since his talent level didnt improve.


This.
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Lil Uno


Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 8582
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Just because Allen & Patterson may finally be rightfully downgraded, does not mean that Hopkins should be upgraded.

Draft slot should remain constant, since his talent level didnt improve.


It's supply and demand. In a competitive market a guy like Hopkins gains value because the quality in front of him has deteriorated.

Marketing 101. If demand remains unchanged and supply decreases, you get a shortage which increases value. Teams need WRs and Keenan Alleb/Cordarelle Patterson are no longer in favor. The next guy up becomes more valuable. Whether you believe that guy is Hopkins is another story.
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CriminalMind


Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 8631
Location: Toronto, CA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil Uno wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
Just because Allen & Patterson may finally be rightfully downgraded, does not mean that Hopkins should be upgraded.

Draft slot should remain constant, since his talent level didnt improve.


It's supply and demand. In a competitive market a guy like Hopkins gains value because the quality in front of him has deteriorated.

Marketing 101. If demand remains unchanged and supply decreases, you get a shortage which increases value. Teams need WRs and Keenan Alleb/Cordarelle Patterson are no longer in favor. The next guy up becomes more valuable. Whether you believe that guy is Hopkins is another story.


Not exactly.
The principles of supply & demand tend to correlate when the item (the WR prospect) is the same.

Because there is a difference in perception of the value of Hopkins the WR vs other WRs vs other "1st round WR", Marketing 101 doesnt hold true here for the typical lower the supply (the higher the demand).
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Lil Uno


Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 8582
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Lil Uno wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
Just because Allen & Patterson may finally be rightfully downgraded, does not mean that Hopkins should be upgraded.

Draft slot should remain constant, since his talent level didnt improve.


It's supply and demand. In a competitive market a guy like Hopkins gains value because the quality in front of him has deteriorated.

Marketing 101. If demand remains unchanged and supply decreases, you get a shortage which increases value. Teams need WRs and Keenan Alleb/Cordarelle Patterson are no longer in favor. The next guy up becomes more valuable. Whether you believe that guy is Hopkins is another story.


Not exactly.
The principles of supply & demand tend to correlate when the item (the WR prospect) is the same.

Because there is a difference in perception of the value of Hopkins the WR vs other WRs vs other "1st round WR", Marketing 101 doesnt hold true here for the typical lower the supply (the higher the demand).


Good point. I think Hopkins is #1 receiver excluding Tavon Austin so the principal holds merit to me. But, as you said Hopkins' perceived ranking is the outlier that throws off the argument.

However, marketing aside it's a common theme during the NFL draft. If you see a run on a player or a position doesn't have desirable depth you see teams make the perceived "reaches". Ponder in 2011 is an example of this. Teams need WRs and if Allen/Patterson aren't viewed as first rounders, needy teams will go with the next guy on their board. To me that's Hopkins.
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rpmwr19


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 35765
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin Hunter has NEVER been lauded for having great hands.
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this providence


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Hopkins, just like Williams and Trufant more.

I voted Trufant as I think he's a little bit better of a fit and provides a safer and larger impact. Would be fine with Sly, though.
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vikesnewcoach11


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 1602
Location: Watertown, New York
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KeithVikings28 wrote:
vikesnewcoach11 wrote:
KeithVikings28 wrote:
Go look up their defensive statistics after the loss against Alabama. It's National Championship or bust for LSU.

What happened to Hopkins against the best secondaries he played all season? FSU 5 catches 88 yards, 60 from busted coverage, VT 3 catches 68 yards, NCSU 2 catches 75 yards, South Carolina 1 catch 43 yards. Hopkins disappears against top flight competition. Hopkins only had 2 games where he caught more than 7 passes. Justin Hunter has 6 games where he caught more than 7 passes. Hunter>Hopkins.


And 1 out of the 6 games came against ranked opponents so whats your point??? That argument doesnt work whatsoever. And to add in...Hunters hands are wayyyy too inconsistent. The last WR we drafted because he was "fast" was Williamson and we all saw how that turned out. Inconsistent hands and he was out of the league in no time. Outside of speed what does Hunter have??? Height?? Well like I said above, Hopkins plays much taller than 6'1.

Hopkins put up 13 for 191 vs LSU. I dont care what anyone says...LSU had one of the best defenses in college football. The 6 game Hunter argument just doesnt work...sorry.


So every person with speed is comparable to Troy Williamson? Very intelligent comparison. Hopkins does not play bigger than he really is. You probably just read little scouting reports, instead of doing the homework yourself. Until this season, Hunter was actually known for having great hands. His drops were mainly lack of focus. He had a terrible coach, who constantly threw his players under the bus, a inconsistent QB, and a child this season. He will be the best WR is this years draft. He has speed, size, jumping ability, and makes amazing catches. LSU sucked after they lost to Alabama. If you put a lot of emphasis on a Bowl Game, which has absolutely zero meaning to an SEC team, you're not worth arguing with. After the Alabama loss, LSU gave up over 400 yards of offense in every game and allowed several WRs to have 120+ yards
.
WRs against LSU after being removed from the NC chase.

MSU Chad Bumphis- 9 catches 140 yards.
OLE MISS Donte Moncrief 6 catches 161 yards.
ARK- Cobi Hamilton 9 catches 98 yards.


Pretty sure they didn't allow a WR 100 yards before the loss.


Now you're going to question my intelligence on the matter when you're giving nothing but excuses about Tennessee's coaching and passing game?? And how LSU "folded" after their loss. They are still a very good defense regardless of the loss or not. And then you say his drops were because of lack of focus....uhhhh well.....thats still a pretty big problem. If he loses focus in the NFL he will be out as quick as Williamson was. Why else would we draft Hunter outside of speed and height??? As rpm said above...he has never had great hands nor has he made many "amazing" catches. Im not sure where you're getting your "scouting report" from but you're definitely failing your homework bud. You might want to watch Hopkins on tape because he wins so many jump balls because he's great a snatching the ball at its highest point...which in turn, shows that he plays much bigger than 6'1.

And out of that "intelligent" comparison you made earlier...I will repeat again, 1 out of those 6 games came against ranked opponents so you're argument literally goes nowhere.

Hopkins plays bigger than 6'1, has decent speed (4.57), much better hands, better route running, stronger, doesnt have an injury history, etc. I mean I really dont see much of anything that Hunter has over him. Its also weird that just about every NFL analyst/expert also has Hopkins rated higher. Come back next time when you have homework that's passing. Here, Ill help you out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13cTixvMEos (Notice in this video, all the games you said he "disappeared in", you see him making big plays vs those top teams....weird)
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vike daddy


Most Valuable Poster (2nd Ballot)

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i really wish guys could write about their views on players without the snide personal put downs with those they disagree with.

it makes reading these threads really uncomfortable.
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ViKingHopeful


Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
i really wish guys could write about their views on players without the snide personal put downs with those they disagree with. it makes reading these threads really uncomfortable.

Agreed. No reason to insult someone's intelligence over a matter of opinion.
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KeithVikings28


Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 2805
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All his contested catches are due to lack of separation. I'm done talking to you.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KeithVikings28 wrote:
All his contested catches are due to lack of separation. I'm done talking to you.


So you want someone who can't catch passes in traffic?
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