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raiderslyfer


Joined: 03 Apr 2013
Posts: 69
Location: richmond, ca
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:40 am    Post subject: Lets be real for a second Reply with quote

The best player in this Draft is none other than Eric Fisher...but I speculate he will be gone at #1 to the Chiefs. I would damn near cry id he was there at #3 and we picked him and id cry if we traded down and he is on the board. Everyone is extremely high on Sharrif Floyd and I get it.....Big school....coached by Hall of Famer extremely young at 20 yrs of age with huge upside. But you pick Floyd at 3 and Fisher is there your not only drafting need and not the Bpa but your also saying we are going to stay in a 4-3 scheme.

The top 3 players might be the three OT and with us needing a Tackle desperately why would we even think about defense at the 3 spot when we can trade down to 7 and get the same player. Floyd would no doubt drop to 7 cause of scheme fit also Ansah. IF WE STAY AT 3 IT HAS TO BE ONE OF THE TACKLES PERIOD. No defensive player in this draft is worth the 3 spot especially if Dion Jordan goes at 2. We have a Defensive minded coach so everyone thinks defense. We may have lost big names in free agency and replaced them with average players but trust me we have already upgraded the defense. We need a grand slam with this pick and its one of these tackles .
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1390
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: Lets be real for a second Reply with quote

raiderslyfer wrote:
The best player in this Draft is none other than Eric Fisher...but I speculate he will be gone at #1 to the Chiefs. I would damn near cry id he was there at #3 and we picked him and id cry if we traded down and he is on the board. Everyone is extremely high on Sharrif Floyd and I get it.....Big school....coached by Hall of Famer extremely young at 20 yrs of age with huge upside. But you pick Floyd at 3 and Fisher is there your not only drafting need and not the Bpa but your also saying we are going to stay in a 4-3 scheme.

The top 3 players might be the three OT and with us needing a Tackle desperately why would we even think about defense at the 3 spot when we can trade down to 7 and get the same player. Floyd would no doubt drop to 7 cause of scheme fit also Ansah. IF WE STAY AT 3 IT HAS TO BE ONE OF THE TACKLES PERIOD. No defensive player in this draft is worth the 3 spot especially if Dion Jordan goes at 2. We have a Defensive minded coach so everyone thinks defense. We may have lost big names in free agency and replaced them with average players but trust me we have already upgraded the defense. We need a grand slam with this pick and its one of these tackles .


Usually even if a left tackle is drafted he will play at RT at least initially and especially with Veldheer already established in the role Fisher may have to stay there. Some would say a RT isn't worth the #3 either. Personally i really like Joeckel and Fisher and would be happy with either.

I don't think the selection is as black and white as simply drafting best player available or drafting for need, from what Reggie McKenzie has actually said it will be a consideration of both combined with his perceived value. That says to me a trade down is in order.
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raiderslyfer


Joined: 03 Apr 2013
Posts: 69
Location: richmond, ca
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See I like Fisher and Lane....id welcome a trade down to the cardinals at 7 cause then we could still get a difference maker albeit Floyd Miliner Ansah Star bit trading to Miami to get extra picks could trade you out of getting a potential star we need a star not just extra picks
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1390
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raiderslyfer wrote:
See I like Fisher and Lane....id welcome a trade down to the cardinals at 7 cause then we could still get a difference maker albeit Floyd Miliner Ansah Star bit trading to Miami to get extra picks could trade you out of getting a potential star we need a star not just extra picks


I think this hits the nail on the head. I'd rather have 5 picks and get 4 starters than trade down and get 8 picks and blow them all on 'potential' with no immediate impact players. IF and it's a big IF, we can nail our top 4 picks and land a starter on OL, DL and in the defensive backfield i think we will suprise a few people next year.

In fairness to McKenzie i have a little more faith in him to use our picks wisely than we have been doing in the recent past. I'm really interested to see just how McKenzie works the draft compared to Al.
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“It may take us a short while, but we'll get that nastiness of the Raiders back.”
Mr. Al Davis RIP
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CaliforniaKid7


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 6758
Location: California
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
raiderslyfer wrote:
See I like Fisher and Lane....id welcome a trade down to the cardinals at 7 cause then we could still get a difference maker albeit Floyd Miliner Ansah Star bit trading to Miami to get extra picks could trade you out of getting a potential star we need a star not just extra picks


I think this hits the nail on the head. I'd rather have 5 picks and get 4 starters than trade down and get 8 picks and blow them all on 'potential' with no immediate impact players. IF and it's a big IF, we can nail our top 4 picks and land a starter on OL, DL and in the defensive backfield i think we will suprise a few people next year.

In fairness to McKenzie i have a little more faith in him to use our picks wisely than we have been doing in the recent past. I'm really interested to see just how McKenzie works the draft compared to Al.

See that's the thing though, with the picks we have now we'd be lucky to get TWO starters.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 11125
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaliforniaKid7 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
raiderslyfer wrote:
See I like Fisher and Lane....id welcome a trade down to the cardinals at 7 cause then we could still get a difference maker albeit Floyd Miliner Ansah Star bit trading to Miami to get extra picks could trade you out of getting a potential star we need a star not just extra picks


I think this hits the nail on the head. I'd rather have 5 picks and get 4 starters than trade down and get 8 picks and blow them all on 'potential' with no immediate impact players. IF and it's a big IF, we can nail our top 4 picks and land a starter on OL, DL and in the defensive backfield i think we will suprise a few people next year.

In fairness to McKenzie i have a little more faith in him to use our picks wisely than we have been doing in the recent past. I'm really interested to see just how McKenzie works the draft compared to Al.

See that's the thing though, with the picks we have now we'd be lucky to get TWO starters.

Exactly, well maybe 3. This doesnt apply to every draft but with extra picks we could make that number 4 with 5 possible this year.
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 3368
Location: Hollywierd
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
I'm really interested to see just how McKenzie works the draft compared to Al.


A first round trade down would be a Raider first in a LONG TIME...I can't think of when it's happened it's been so long.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1390
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
CaliforniaKid7 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
raiderslyfer wrote:
See I like Fisher and Lane....id welcome a trade down to the cardinals at 7 cause then we could still get a difference maker albeit Floyd Miliner Ansah Star bit trading to Miami to get extra picks could trade you out of getting a potential star we need a star not just extra picks


I think this hits the nail on the head. I'd rather have 5 picks and get 4 starters than trade down and get 8 picks and blow them all on 'potential' with no immediate impact players. IF and it's a big IF, we can nail our top 4 picks and land a starter on OL, DL and in the defensive backfield i think we will suprise a few people next year.

In fairness to McKenzie i have a little more faith in him to use our picks wisely than we have been doing in the recent past. I'm really interested to see just how McKenzie works the draft compared to Al.

See that's the thing though, with the picks we have now we'd be lucky to get TWO starters.

Exactly, well maybe 3. This doesnt apply to every draft but with extra picks we could make that number 4 with 5 possible this year.


I know what you mean, maybe i didn't make myself too clear on re-reading!

If we trade down from #3 and get a mid 1st and a 2nd for example thats fine, we can get a couple of starters hopefully, what i don't want to see is a ton of 5th or 6th round picks that we trade down for, where we can realistically get very few starters. We need 2nd and 3rd round picks i believe where we can get value and potential starters ala Veldheer, Houston, Wisniewski etc.
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“It may take us a short while, but we'll get that nastiness of the Raiders back.”
Mr. Al Davis RIP
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 11125
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
CaliforniaKid7 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
raiderslyfer wrote:
See I like Fisher and Lane....id welcome a trade down to the cardinals at 7 cause then we could still get a difference maker albeit Floyd Miliner Ansah Star bit trading to Miami to get extra picks could trade you out of getting a potential star we need a star not just extra picks


I think this hits the nail on the head. I'd rather have 5 picks and get 4 starters than trade down and get 8 picks and blow them all on 'potential' with no immediate impact players. IF and it's a big IF, we can nail our top 4 picks and land a starter on OL, DL and in the defensive backfield i think we will suprise a few people next year.

In fairness to McKenzie i have a little more faith in him to use our picks wisely than we have been doing in the recent past. I'm really interested to see just how McKenzie works the draft compared to Al.

See that's the thing though, with the picks we have now we'd be lucky to get TWO starters.

Exactly, well maybe 3. This doesnt apply to every draft but with extra picks we could make that number 4 with 5 possible this year.


I know what you mean, maybe i didn't make myself too clear on re-reading!

If we trade down from #3 and get a mid 1st and a 2nd for example thats fine, we can get a couple of starters hopefully, what i don't want to see is a ton of 5th or 6th round picks that we trade down for, where we can realistically get very few starters. We need 2nd and 3rd round picks i believe where we can get value and potential starters ala Veldheer, Houston, Wisniewski etc.
Ahh yes. I think we are all on the same page there.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3890
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I wouldn't mind trading down twice to get more seconds or even a first next year. Which Im sure we can do.

First we drop to 12 for the dolphins second and third plus a pick from next year.

Then we can trade back again with the vikes or rams if Austin or Patterson is still on the board. Both teams have two firsts and both teams really really need a WR. Now I doubt we could get both firsts but I'm sure we could pick up one of thier seconds and a third. Heck the Rams might give us thier first next year.

We'd at worse end up with a Mid to Low first, 2 seconds, and 3 thirds. Think of all the talent we could add:vaccaro, Tank, Woods, Turfaunt, Rambo, Taylor, Thomas, Fluker. Cool
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 11125
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I wouldn't mind trading down twice to get more seconds or even a first next year. Which Im sure we can do.

First we drop to 12 for the dolphins second and third plus a pick from next year.

Then we can trade back again with the vikes or rams if Austin or Patterson is still on the board. Both teams have two firsts and both teams really really need a WR. Now I doubt we could get both firsts but I'm sure we could pick up one of thier seconds and a third. Heck the Rams might give us thier first next year.

We'd at worse end up with a Mid to Low first, 2 seconds, and 3 thirds. Think of all the talent we could add:vaccaro, Tank, Woods, Turfaunt, Rambo, Taylor, Thomas, Fluker. Cool
Rumor is Dallas wants to move up as well. Not sure I would move down again. Depends on who is there.
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DarthDavis


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 5214
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
raiderslyfer wrote:
See I like Fisher and Lane....id welcome a trade down to the cardinals at 7 cause then we could still get a difference maker albeit Floyd Miliner Ansah Star bit trading to Miami to get extra picks could trade you out of getting a potential star we need a star not just extra picks


I think this hits the nail on the head. I'd rather have 5 picks and get 4 starters than trade down and get 8 picks and blow them all on 'potential' with no immediate impact players. IF and it's a big IF, we can nail our top 4 picks and land a starter on OL, DL and in the defensive backfield i think we will suprise a few people next year.

In fairness to McKenzie i have a little more faith in him to use our picks wisely than we have been doing in the recent past. I'm really interested to see just how McKenzie works the draft compared to Al.


Well I think there is a bias in your scenario. I would rather trade down get 8 picks with 4 starters and 4 decent backups then take 5 picks and try to squeeze them for every bit of superstar juice Confused possible. yuck. The smart thing to do in this weak draft class is to stock up on 3rd-5th rounders. There are great small school prospects and a very deep secondary class. I also like the later round WR/TE/RB's. Heck if we need to we should take some 2014 picks as compensation and really right this ship. There are some good players in this draft but chasing superstars this isn't.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1390
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthDavis wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
raiderslyfer wrote:
See I like Fisher and Lane....id welcome a trade down to the cardinals at 7 cause then we could still get a difference maker albeit Floyd Miliner Ansah Star bit trading to Miami to get extra picks could trade you out of getting a potential star we need a star not just extra picks


I think this hits the nail on the head. I'd rather have 5 picks and get 4 starters than trade down and get 8 picks and blow them all on 'potential' with no immediate impact players. IF and it's a big IF, we can nail our top 4 picks and land a starter on OL, DL and in the defensive backfield i think we will suprise a few people next year.

In fairness to McKenzie i have a little more faith in him to use our picks wisely than we have been doing in the recent past. I'm really interested to see just how McKenzie works the draft compared to Al.


Well I think there is a bias in your scenario. I would rather trade down get 8 picks with 4 starters and 4 decent backups then take 5 picks and try to squeeze them for every bit of superstar juice Confused possible. yuck. The smart thing to do in this weak draft class is to stock up on 3rd-5th rounders. There are great small school prospects and a very deep secondary class. I also like the later round WR/TE/RB's. Heck if we need to we should take some 2014 picks as compensation and really right this ship. There are some good players in this draft but chasing superstars this isn't.


Why would that be bias? I would basically rather have 5 picks towards the end of the 1st, in the 2nd and 3rd round level where we can snag value players (such as Veldheer, Wiz and Houston who we have acquired there previously) than a multitude of 4th, 5th and 6th round picks from multiple trade downs where we get 'high potential' guys like Juron Criner, Bruce Campbell, Darnell Bing who have a greater chance of falling by the wayside.

It's a simple correlation, I think a lot of fans are infatuated with accumulating a high number of picks (as in FFMD for example) rather than a smaller number of high quality picks. You can get a large number of picks that will by nature be lower picks or a smaller number of high picks. I'd rather have a handful of high picks than a bag full of lower round picks and play the percentages.
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“It may take us a short while, but we'll get that nastiness of the Raiders back.”
Mr. Al Davis RIP
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attack_in_s/b


Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 643
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if we are trading for high picks i'd actually prefer an extra 1st next year than this year. Next years draft seems (although obv early) to have much more top end talent. Jadeveon Clowney, Marquise Lee, Manziel if he comes out, bridgewater, etc... guys imo are definitely worth a top 5 pick... don't see that level of talent in the top of this years draft.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7367
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

attack_in_s/b wrote:
if we are trading for high picks i'd actually prefer an extra 1st next year than this year. Next years draft seems (although obv early) to have much more top end talent. Jadeveon Clowney, Marquise Lee, Manziel if he comes out, bridgewater, etc... guys imo are definitely worth a top 5 pick... don't see that level of talent in the top of this years draft.


Which is why I don't envision very many trades involving future picks.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly


Last edited by Baggabonez on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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