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should the Vikes Corner the market on a Back?
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Bermuda Viking


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think the Vikings were counting on leadership from Winfield in the secondary. Cook isnt exactly the mark of a leader. That leaves Harrison Smith as the guy. I know he has the abilities but he's a a little young to Captain the secondary. That's all but decided now. To me that means they draft a stud if they can and Teo who teams with Harrison to colead the defense. Otherwise they skip MLB in the draft and take Urlacher now. Picks then go to CB and DL and WR and next year we look at LB.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bermuda Viking wrote:
[Harrison's] a little young to Captain the secondary.

eh. we might be asking a rookie to captain the whole defense.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After Milliner and Rhodes, the only CBs I have an interest in are as follows: (likely 4th rd picks or sooner, keep in mind).

Jamar Taylor (1st)
D.J. Hayden (2nd)
Robert Alford (2nd)
Blidi Wreh-Wilson (2nd)
Leon McFadden (3rd)
Logan Ryan (3rd)
Darius Slay (3rd)
Terry Hawthorne (3rd)
B.W. Webb (4th)
Tharold Simon (4th)
Dwayne Gratz (4th)

These guys are mostly off my radar, for one reason or another:

Desmond Trufant
Johnthan Banks
David Amerson
Jordan Poyer
Will Davis
Sanders Commings
Tyrann Matheiu
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggsonasty,

We have the ammo, but we still have a lot of needs:

I'd say we'd easily need:

1. MLB
2. #2 WR
3. DT
4. CB
5. G
6. #5 WR (possibly)

and then we could be looking at drafting a RB and QB this year as well.
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Klomp


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
arKnaD7 wrote:
I rank the need of a CB in the same tier as WR & MLB. The sweet spot for the 2nd tier CBs (Taylor, Banks, Amerson, Slay, Wreh-Wilson, etc) is at the end of round 1. If the Vikings can trade back a couple of spots, pick up an extra selection, and land Jamar Taylor, my personal favorite, that'd be ideal to me.


Agreed. WR, MLB and CB are mostly even for me. After those three needs, DT and OG come into consideration.

WR and CB are both deep positions this year, so you could take either one in round 1 or round 2 and end up with quality. Its just a matter of preference, first rd WR or first rd CB.


I'd drop CB to the same tier as DT because of the Cover 2. Guard is another tier behind that.
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Lil Uno


Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I love Blidi Wreh-Wilson and Johnthan Banks, I'm not a fan of drafting a corner early this year. In my opinion, some combination of MLB, DT, and WR should be selected with the first three picks.

As for adding a CB, I'm in the minority that thinks CB isn't that big a need. The earliest I would consider is the 3rd. Ideally a physical guy who can play inside or out. Someone like Leon McFadden or Marc Anthony. I would also double up with someone else later in the draft. Nickell Robey is a perfect middle round guy to add.

I also get the impression that the organization likes Bobby Felder and I believe he will be on the 53 this year. If you attack the CB position as I've outlined, you get a stable of:

Chris Cook
AJ Jefferson
Josh Robinson
Leon McFadden/Marc Anthony
Bobby Felder
Mid/Late Round Pick

Solid group of guys for a scheme that doesn't require top tier guys at the position.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solid?

cook=hurt all the time, or suspended all the time....we really don't know
Jefferson=benched for Robinson at one point, not even average
Robison=didn't he have the worst rating of any CB in the game last year?

I have no idea how anyone thinks this group is solid. Not one of them has proven to be a starter. Two have not even proven they are good backups.

41-0 here we come again......
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Lil Uno


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're exaggerating a bit. Minnesota was ranked 24th in passing defense this year. However they ranked 6th in limiting passes over 20 yards. I don't know why there is a huge discrepancy there, but if I had to guess it would be due to LB play. The middle of the defense was awful this year and a lot of plays were made behind the LBs.

Cook is a bit of a question mark and there should be an insurance plan but that doesn't have to come in form of a high draft pick.

Robinson is/was raw. We all knew that coming out of UCF he was going to take some time. I will admit I wasn't and am still not a fan of the pick but he was a rookie and now has valuable experience under his belt. Lets see how he does year 2 before we throw in the towel.

Again, I'm in the minority on Jefferson. I can only recall one play where Jefferson was burnt for a big gain. Like Robinson, he is great between the 20s but struggles in the redzone. However, Jefferson does a terrific job of setting himself up to make plays but has been unable to make them.

In my opinion, you add a third round guy with potential to start and we'll be fine. I know it's an unpopular opinion but that's how I view our secondary. I feel we should focus more on improving the middle of the defense as it can only help the outside guys. We need better cover play next to Harrison, a MLB who can get deep and help out in coverage, and a disruptive DT all before an early corner in my opinion.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't get me wrong, I want the DT and LB position fixed also.....that's why I would have cut KWill and kept Winfield.......
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biggsohnasty


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steel Viking, I agree completely. My post about double dipping was merely a point that I would not want to draft a guy like Mathieu or Rogers with hopes that they are "the answer" at their respective positions due to the character problems.

With regards to our secondary, we need a guy that can generate takeaways. With the amount of pressure we are able to put on QBs, theres no reason we shouldnt at least rank in the middle of the pack in interceptions. Cook looks like he will never make more then 2 in a season (which is ok because he is solid in coverage), Sanford/Raymond have done nothing to show ballhawk capabilities but Sanford has shown a skill for forcing fumbles and Smith looks like he could develop into a 4-6 picks per yr guy but this defense in order to take the next step towards being an elite one needs a true ballhawk/playmaker in the back 7. Rules these days are set up too much for the offenses to succeed for defenses to be good without forcing turnovers.
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this providence


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amerson can't play corner in the NFL. I mean, I don't want to say can't, but he shouldn't. I think he's really only a viable option at safety, and not even a good one at that. He's terrible in trail but he made his hay playing off and reading the play. To me he seems like a tweener between CB and S that really isn't a very good fit at either...

Rhodes and Trufant I'd put on the same tier. Would like either if they were available at the Vikings' pick. Not sure either will be.

Not a Taylor fan. Don't think he's what the Vikings need in a first round corner. If they were to go that route, they need a guy who can play with the freak WRs in this division. Whether it's with physicality, frame, instincts, or athleticism. I don't think Taylor falls into any of those categories.

If for whatever reason Banks drops to their 2nd round pick, I think he's an option there. At this point I'd be wary in the first. After Banks, this is a terrible year for corners, IMO. I'd avoid all. And DEFINITELY Mathieu as he's just a poor player to begin with; let alone the headache.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrplChilPill wrote:
I think they need a starting CB, maybe two. I do not trust one of the guys they have.


I agree.

Not really impressed with the CB class this season either. Even the top regarded CB in Milliner relies way too much on his physical gifts. His technique is flawed at times just because he has the speed to keep up with guys.

I like Wilson, and Roads, but that's really it.

I could see us trading up for Milliner if he starts to slide, and that would be concerning.
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LoverInTheCold


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think the stars are starting to align for us taking Sly Williams at #23 and Te'o at #25. IMO, that means WR almost has to be the pick at #52. And unless they're convinced a potential starter at WR is going to be sitting there for them in the 3rd, I think that's the right call.

That leaves 3-4 as the rounds we target a CB, IMO. I see them focusing on Wreh-Wilson or Will Davis, two players they had meetings with.
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this providence


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they can get markedly better players by going CB in the 2nd, WR in the third, than they can in the reverse.

I wouldn't even bother with a corner after the 2nd round and have any real hopes that he could play or even over-take the mediocrity (at best) at the position on this roster. Given what's at WR, 2nd-4th round picks I believe could all add something to this roster given they pick a player with a pulse.

I still think, and have thought since the end of the year, that the best route is to go defense (and hopefully G) heavy through the first two rounds, minimum, preferably three. Then stack the multiple mid round picks they have and go out and add numbers at the WR position and it's much more likely they find something that sticks.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frazier: Im hoping that well be able to draft some [cornerback] guys that can bring in some competition for us at that position. Its an area where youre always trying to get quality depth in the secondary. The way people spread you out now and try to create mismatches, you want to make sure that you address the secondary every season. Were not quite where Id like us to be yet, but this draft can really help us to improve our secondary.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/202872751.html?refer=y
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