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Will the Raiders really take Eric Fisher at #3?
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Joe Nobody


Joined: 12 Feb 2013
Posts: 465
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The defense being a mess should have no bearing on who we take at #3 if we're unable to trade down. Need has very little to do with value.

Would I take Fisher 3rd overall after my attempts to trade back had failed? Hell yes. Having bookend OTs would be phenomenal.

Will McKenzie? Probably not. Not unless he plans to bump Veldheer to RT or let him walk as a FA next year. The former is a possibility, albeit not one I'm a fan of. The latter would see me lose a great deal of faith in McKenzie's ability to build a roster.

Thing is, if we reach for a defensive player at 3 for the sake of drafting defense, that either means we're not working our draft board correctly, or we have a really jacked up draft board. None of the DTs strike me as #3 overall picks. Neither does Milliner. I like Jordan and Ansah, but there's way too much speculation about their pro potential to rate them ahead of a guy like Fisher, imo.

But, if Fisher goes #1 overall, this is all moot anyway. Joeckel is a different type of player, so the thinking would be different. He's a pure, dancing bear LT who gets beat across his face too often. Not sure how much of his success was Johnny Manziel's doing.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe Nobody wrote:
The defense being a mess should have no bearing on who we take at #3 if we're unable to trade down. Need has very little to do with value.

Would I take Fisher 3rd overall after my attempts to trade back had failed? Hell yes. Having bookend OTs would be phenomenal.

Will McKenzie? Probably not. Not unless he plans to bump Veldheer to RT or let him walk as a FA next year. The former is a possibility, albeit not one I'm a fan of. The latter would see me lose a great deal of faith in McKenzie's ability to build a roster.

Thing is, if we reach for a defensive player at 3 for the sake of drafting defense, that either means we're not working our draft board correctly, or we have a really jacked up draft board. None of the DTs strike me as #3 overall picks. Neither does Milliner. I like Jordan and Ansah, but there's way too much speculation about their pro potential to rate them ahead of a guy like Fisher, imo.

But, if Fisher goes #1 overall, this is all moot anyway. Joeckel is a different type of player, so the thinking would be different. He's a pure, dancing bear LT who gets beat across his face too often. Not sure how much of his success was Johnny Manziel's doing.


I always thought the same thing. Johnny footballs ability to scramble slows down the pash rush.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Joe Nobody wrote:
The defense being a mess should have no bearing on who we take at #3 if we're unable to trade down. Need has very little to do with value.

Would I take Fisher 3rd overall after my attempts to trade back had failed? Hell yes. Having bookend OTs would be phenomenal.

Will McKenzie? Probably not. Not unless he plans to bump Veldheer to RT or let him walk as a FA next year. The former is a possibility, albeit not one I'm a fan of. The latter would see me lose a great deal of faith in McKenzie's ability to build a roster.

Thing is, if we reach for a defensive player at 3 for the sake of drafting defense, that either means we're not working our draft board correctly, or we have a really jacked up draft board. None of the DTs strike me as #3 overall picks. Neither does Milliner. I like Jordan and Ansah, but there's way too much speculation about their pro potential to rate them ahead of a guy like Fisher, imo.

But, if Fisher goes #1 overall, this is all moot anyway. Joeckel is a different type of player, so the thinking would be different. He's a pure, dancing bear LT who gets beat across his face too often. Not sure how much of his success was Johnny Manziel's doing.


I always thought the same thing. Johnny footballs ability to scramble slows down the pash rush.

Yes I mentioned this briefly also the other day when discussing why I think Fisher is better.
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THE MAD STORK


Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 562
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
bitty wrote:
Joe Nobody wrote:
The defense being a mess should have no bearing on who we take at #3 if we're unable to trade down. Need has very little to do with value.

Would I take Fisher 3rd overall after my attempts to trade back had failed? Hell yes. Having bookend OTs would be phenomenal.

Will McKenzie? Probably not. Not unless he plans to bump Veldheer to RT or let him walk as a FA next year. The former is a possibility, albeit not one I'm a fan of. The latter would see me lose a great deal of faith in McKenzie's ability to build a roster.

Thing is, if we reach for a defensive player at 3 for the sake of drafting defense, that either means we're not working our draft board correctly, or we have a really jacked up draft board. None of the DTs strike me as #3 overall picks. Neither does Milliner. I like Jordan and Ansah, but there's way too much speculation about their pro potential to rate them ahead of a guy like Fisher, imo.

But, if Fisher goes #1 overall, this is all moot anyway. Joeckel is a different type of player, so the thinking would be different. He's a pure, dancing bear LT who gets beat across his face too often. Not sure how much of his success was Johnny Manziel's doing.



I always thought the same thing. Johnny footballs ability to scramble slows down the pash rush.

Yes I mentioned this briefly also the other day when discussing why I think Fisher is better.


EXACTLY, +1. Its very obvious when a DE rushes Johnny Manziel, that they are trying to keep him inside the pocket (so they are not going all out) which is why I would not want to draft Joekel, and hes not a mauler in the run game. It really surprises me that hes the #1 OT, I just hope the cheifs draft him.
I would draft Fluker over Joekel.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is KC will go w/ Fisher but I hope they take Joeckle. I want them to stay away from Floyd so I don't have to tell you all I told you so when he's tearing up the Raiders. Laughing
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
My guess is KC will go w/ Fisher but I hope they take Joeckle. I want them to stay away from Floyd so I don't have to tell you all I told you so when he's tearing up the Raiders. Laughing


I want them to take Floyd so I can laugh at you and them while he gets thrown around like a rag doll. Laughing
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
My guess is KC will go w/ Fisher but I hope they take Joeckle. I want them to stay away from Floyd so I don't have to tell you all I told you so when he's tearing up the Raiders. Laughing


I want them to take Floyd so I can laugh at you and them while he gets thrown around like a rag doll. Laughing


If he goes to KC, I can only hope that happens. Would gladly eat that crow.

I'm in the prediction business. Just hoping to be right 70% of the time. I'd take my 30% wrong w/ that pick.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
My guess is KC will go w/ Fisher but I hope they take Joeckle. I want them to stay away from Floyd so I don't have to tell you all I told you so when he's tearing up the Raiders. Laughing


I want them to take Floyd so I can laugh at you and them while he gets thrown around like a rag doll. Laughing


If he goes to KC, I can only hope that happens. Would gladly eat that crow.

I'm in the prediction business. Just hoping to be right 70% of the time. I'd take my 30% wrong w/ that pick.


I really don't think he's going to pan out. Maybe if he's selected later than where he's being projected, but I think picking him in the top 10 will result in disappointment.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
My guess is KC will go w/ Fisher but I hope they take Joeckle. I want them to stay away from Floyd so I don't have to tell you all I told you so when he's tearing up the Raiders. Laughing


I want them to take Floyd so I can laugh at you and them while he gets thrown around like a rag doll. Laughing


If he goes to KC, I can only hope that happens. Would gladly eat that crow.

I'm in the prediction business. Just hoping to be right 70% of the time. I'd take my 30% wrong w/ that pick.


I really don't think he's going to pan out. Maybe if he's selected later than where he's being projected, but I think picking him in the top 10 will result in disappointment.


Sad thing is, there isn't a player taken in the top 10 that doesn't have that potential for disappointment. Just a bad draft all around at the top.

If it was up to me, I'd take Tavon Austin #3 overall. He's the only player I feel strongly will be a dynamic player without question. He will take the NFL by storm as a KR/PR specialist, RB and WR in the slot and going deep. Going to be a fun player.

Another player I think will be dynamite, Sio Moore. I was clamoring for David or Wagner last year and Moore is right in that wheelhouse.

I desperately want Oakland to pick up a 2nd to get Sio. He's going to be special.
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Roninho


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
My guess is KC will go w/ Fisher but I hope they take Joeckle. I want them to stay away from Floyd so I don't have to tell you all I told you so when he's tearing up the Raiders. Laughing


I want them to take Floyd so I can laugh at you and them while he gets thrown around like a rag doll by Fisher. Laughing

fixed it for you
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roninho wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
My guess is KC will go w/ Fisher but I hope they take Joeckle. I want them to stay away from Floyd so I don't have to tell you all I told you so when he's tearing up the Raiders. Laughing


I want them to take Floyd so I can laugh at you and them while he gets thrown around like a rag doll by Fisher. Laughing

fixed it for you


That would be amazing.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
My guess is KC will go w/ Fisher but I hope they take Joeckle. I want them to stay away from Floyd so I don't have to tell you all I told you so when he's tearing up the Raiders. Laughing


Fisher doesn't know ZBS. Reid runs a ZBS. I just don't see how you put potential over production in this scenario. I'll be shocked if Fisher goes before Joeckel.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
My guess is KC will go w/ Fisher but I hope they take Joeckle. I want them to stay away from Floyd so I don't have to tell you all I told you so when he's tearing up the Raiders. Laughing


Fisher doesn't know ZBS. Reid runs a ZBS. I just don't see how you put potential over production in this scenario. I'll be shocked if Fisher goes before Joeckel.


Fisher can't learn to play as a ZBS LT w/ his athletic ability? I'd argue he's better suited going forward than Joekle.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
My guess is KC will go w/ Fisher but I hope they take Joeckle. I want them to stay away from Floyd so I don't have to tell you all I told you so when he's tearing up the Raiders. Laughing


Fisher doesn't know ZBS. Reid runs a ZBS. I just don't see how you put potential over production in this scenario. I'll be shocked if Fisher goes before Joeckel.


Fisher can't learn to play as a ZBS LT w/ his athletic ability? I'd argue he's better suited going forward than Joekle.


Absolutely! I'm just saying Joeckel's technique is strong kung fu and gtg day one.
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Mancrush 2014: DE Clowney, WR Watkins, OT Robinson, LB Shazier, FS Brooks, TE ASJ, OG Jackson, WR Janis, OT Lucas, OT Tiny
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91jmay


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
91jmay wrote:
Dessie wrote:
Oaktown wrote:
I don't think so. Veldheer is a good LT he is in his contract year. He has been working hard this offseason. I see no reason why they would take a LT with the 3rd pick. Too many needs on defense.

The market is flooded with RT no one wants to pay them.

IMO Reggie hopes fisher is there and someone wants him enough to trade up for him. If not i think he drafts DT Floyd, Star , or edge rusher Jordan , Ansah

If a trade down with Miami Richaedson , Mingo , Sly Williams , Warmack , Fluker , Tank are options.


Is there any guarantee that Veldheer re-signs?


Well we have loads of cap room, if we want him he will be a Raider.


Yeah i know we have loads of cap room but what if he wants to play for a contender and is not motivated by money. Lot of hypotheticals both ways just don't see that assuming Veldheer will re-sign as being totally realistic. That is why Fisher if he is there at 3 and we can't trade down should be the pick. He could be our LT in a years time.


Has a player ever turned down money and left a team to move to a contender? How many contenders are going to have much cap room next year?
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