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Thought about Jordy Nelson and James Jones
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1793
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECPackers wrote:
smetana34 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
For me it's very simple. This goes back to the whole Jones thing 2 years ago. The bottom line is, does the guy get open ? Does he get balls thrown to him ? The answer is yes. Seems too simple but the bottom line is you have to somehow get separation or have a knack for always coming down with the 50/50 balls. Jones does all of the above. You can say the same for Nelson, although possibly to a lesser extent. The other thing that is never mentioned about Jones is that he almost always makes the tough catches and is incredible at coming down with the 50/50 balls.

By comparison Boykin did get a bit of playing time last year and off the top of my head, I remember thinking his targets seemed very low. That is a concern for me. The other end of the spectrum is Cobb, who seemed to get open from day one


For me it's very simple. Green Bay retained Jordy once. Green Bay let Jones walk once. There was 0 market for the guy. Isn't that telling?



its not telling. there was also almost no market for randy moss a few years ago.

there was also zero market for greg jennings.


Because he was a headcase. Moss I mean. And older.
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smetana34


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 3112
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECPackers wrote:
smetana34 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
For me it's very simple. This goes back to the whole Jones thing 2 years ago. The bottom line is, does the guy get open ? Does he get balls thrown to him ? The answer is yes. Seems too simple but the bottom line is you have to somehow get separation or have a knack for always coming down with the 50/50 balls. Jones does all of the above. You can say the same for Nelson, although possibly to a lesser extent. The other thing that is never mentioned about Jones is that he almost always makes the tough catches and is incredible at coming down with the 50/50 balls.

By comparison Boykin did get a bit of playing time last year and off the top of my head, I remember thinking his targets seemed very low. That is a concern for me. The other end of the spectrum is Cobb, who seemed to get open from day one


For me it's very simple. Green Bay retained Jordy once. Green Bay let Jones walk once. There was 0 market for the guy. Isn't that telling?



its not telling. there was also almost no market for randy moss a few years ago.

there was also zero market for greg jennings.


He signed a 5 year 48 million dollar contract with a different team. Apparently that's no market Rolling Eyes
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECPackers wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
spilltray wrote:
Why? Because he had a good year last year? Jones has been inconsistent his whole career. I HOPE he's finally turning that around but there is no way you can be certain of that yet.
Jones is becoming a bit overrated IMO. His ceiling is a year like last year. Some Packers fans see the TD numbers and say he was so great because of it but TD's are so arbitrary of a stat. His TD's last year were very impressive and he was routinely making circus grabs but he's not on the level of Nelson or Cobb in terms of ceiling. If we have to choose one, it's Nelson without a single doubt. But I don't think we will have to choose. Keeping both is a real possibility. Jones hit the open market when he was 27 and had to settle for a deal that averages a little over 3 million per. He's not going to get more then that when he hits the market when he's 30. Nelson's next contract is going to depend a lot on how these next two years go for him but I would guess he gets about 7 million per year.



so who's overrated here? jordy and his ONE single stand out year? or jones, and his model of consistency.

really. look up the stats. the stats support my argument. and forget the touchdowns (which are still better than nelson)

in fact, i find it ridiculous people don't see it that way.
Jones' numbers are consistently average. Nelson has been a borderline superstar for us since late 2010. His 2011 season was borderline elite. Then you look at 2012 where he was battling injury throughout the year. He only played in 12 games compared to Jones 16 but only had 39 less yards. Then look at the YPC and Nelson blows Jones out of the water with 15.2 compared to 12.3. Nelson is superior to Jones. I really don't even know how some thin it's close.
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G Harmon


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea James Jones numbers were above average at best besides TDs. Nelson looks like a good to Great #1 when healthy. I see Jones as an elite #3 and a good #2 at best.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
spilltray wrote:
ECPackers wrote:
yes that's me. i play madden and read espn stat sheets, and know all about football...

you should not even comment on this topic, you're obviously clueless.


I could say the same. Jones has been wildly inconsistent his entire career, regardless of how the yearly stats work out. Nelson on the other hand had quite possible a career year in 2011, but was dinged up in 2012. You consistently get Nelson's best. You can't say that for Jones. That's exactly the sort of thing you hear from Palmy where he says:

palmy50 wrote:
That said, I have more faith in Nelson "the man" than I do with Jones and feel there is a much better chance Jones will want to test the market.


You could see Nelson's consistent progression. You can't say the same with Jones at all.


That's not at all what Palmy is saying. That quote means, Jordy the small town country kid, will be morel likely to re-up at a contract to stay in an area that he has grown to love with a QB he has a chemistry with. Jones already tested the market once, was once impoverished and probably wants to hit a big payday. That quote has nothing to do with on the field.

I strongly disagree that Jones has been "widly" inconsistent. The only inconsistency in Jones' game has been his concentration. Since the moment TT drafted him, he's run great routes, been a willing blocker and had a knack for finding the endzone. He also has the best hands on the team when focused. You heard all the commentators and players bring up how he "talks" to himself on the field know to stay focused.


Both of you are right. In my eyes Nelson is very much so the type that will try to get something done before he hits the market. Jones is the type that will want to go out and get a feel......AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

I feel Nelson is the type that will bring his very best day in and day out. Not so sure I have felt this way about Jones over the years. But have said for years that Jones might have the most god given ability of this Packers WR group. Man came to play last year. If he comes to play again this year that's going to be a hard man to let walk.

In many ways Jones was my Finley before Finley.
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driftwood


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:


In many ways Jones was my Finley before Finley.



really the only thing Jones lacks is height on JF... but Jones plays super strong (jamming him up at the line isnt easy at all)

hes gotten much better on the drops too

im going to be very curious as to what they do with him next year... but I honestly think hes a goner (his 2nd time on the market will be much different especially if he has another solid year)
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mean they are similar players(guess they kinda are now that I think about it). I mean that Jones while playing solid football was falling short of what could be in terms of talent. The lack of speed will keep him from ever pulling in huge bank. But there are some rare tools in Jones shed. LIS, one could make a strong case for Jones being the best in the league right now at HIS GAME.
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3irty1


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
I don't mean they are similar players(guess they kinda are now that I think about it). I mean that Jones while playing solid football was falling short of what could be in terms of talent. The lack of speed will keep him from ever pulling in huge bank. But there are some rare tools in Jones shed. LIS, one could make a strong case for Jones being the best in the league right now at HIS GAME.


I've always thought of Jones as a mini Finley. Neither are that great of athletes for their position but explode out of their cuts in a way that it seems they can always get open. Both have as good of hands as you can be born with but have histories of dropping the ball due to nerves. Both can highpoint the ball for a big play and play bigger than their size which already isn't small. Both have some ability after the catch.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3irty1 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
I don't mean they are similar players(guess they kinda are now that I think about it). I mean that Jones while playing solid football was falling short of what could be in terms of talent. The lack of speed will keep him from ever pulling in huge bank. But there are some rare tools in Jones shed. LIS, one could make a strong case for Jones being the best in the league right now at HIS GAME.


I've always thought of Jones as a mini Finley. Neither are that great of athletes for their position but explode out of their cuts in a way that it seems they can always get open. Both have as good of hands as you can be born with but have histories of dropping the ball due to nerves. Both can highpoint the ball for a big play and play bigger than their size which already isn't small. Both have some ability after the catch.


Finley is a far more fluid athlete(even more so at length/scale) but would agree about the ball skills, hands, and body control. Jones bread n butter is his ability to get off press though. Most don't even try to press him at this point. It's a skill that will stay with him though and makes the rest of his game show even better. It's what made TO so special also.
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wgbeethree


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
3irty1 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
I don't mean they are similar players(guess they kinda are now that I think about it). I mean that Jones while playing solid football was falling short of what could be in terms of talent. The lack of speed will keep him from ever pulling in huge bank. But there are some rare tools in Jones shed. LIS, one could make a strong case for Jones being the best in the league right now at HIS GAME.


I've always thought of Jones as a mini Finley. Neither are that great of athletes for their position but explode out of their cuts in a way that it seems they can always get open. Both have as good of hands as you can be born with but have histories of dropping the ball due to nerves. Both can highpoint the ball for a big play and play bigger than their size which already isn't small. Both have some ability after the catch.


Finley is a far more fluid athlete(even more so at length/scale) but would agree about the ball skills, hands, and body control. Jones bread n butter is his ability to get off press though. Most don't even try to press him at this point. It's a skill that will stay with him though and makes the rest of his game show even better. It's what made TO so special also.


Think this is a trait TT really values whose importance gets overlooked from time to time. Nelson, Jones, and Finley all have exceptional body control. Since you rarely ever get a clean route or uncontested catch at the NFL level the ability to absorb contact and still be able to get into your route and in a position to catch the ball is huge.
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