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Andy Levitre is a Natural LG, Warmack and Cooper are too...
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FinMan


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Andy Levitre is a Natural LG, Warmack and Cooper are too... Reply with quote

It appears that Warmack and/or Cooper will be available at #10...

The Titans just spent $47 million (over 5 years) on Andy Levitre to immediately step in at left guard.

Currently Robert Turner is slated at right guard. Turner is a free agent in 2014 and is due $1.5 million in 2013.

Likewise, long time center Fernando Velasco is also heading into the final year of his deal and is set to make just over $2 million in 2013.

With that said,

Does it still make sense to draft Warmack or Cooper at #10 to play at right guard?

And does Cooper have more value to the line since he has the versatility to play center after Velasco leaves?

Is Cooper a better fit given his ability to play in a zone blocking scheme?

If Warmack and Cooper are on the board, are they the pick at #10? And if you don't believe you should draft a guard, what are the other positions that they could attack?

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ttitansfan4life


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1.) No it doesn't make sense to draft an OG at 10 but both can play RG.

2.) Cooper is more valuable because fits the scheme better and can play center as well. Velasco isn't leaving so I'm not sure where your getting that at.

3.) As mentioned above Cooper is a better fit.

4.) I still say no simply because the Titans hardly ever draft O-Lineman in the 1st especially not interior lineman. Plus they just signed Levitre to a big deal. Other positions to consider at 10 is DT, DE, CB, and WR.
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Titans fan 617


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coopers a little bigger so im leaning towards Cooper but i can live with Warmack if Coopers drafted before we get to him
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Yes. If the staff feels that either of them could be perennial all-pros, than it is worth it.

2. I honestly don't think it makes much of a difference. Turner is probably a better center than guard and honestly, I would expect Velasco to be given a long-term deal if all goes well this year.

3. Perhaps, but as they would be playing right guard, we may want more of a mauler in that spot anyways. Cooper's versatility certainly doesn't hurt, but I think they would simply take whichever they feel is the better player, regardless of scheme.

4. All depends on how the board falls. If we're not in love with any of the WR's and Dee, Star and the top DE's are off the board, then Warmack or Cooper would probably be the pick. Otherwise, we could go a number of directions. WR, DE, DT, CB are all possibilities at #10.
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Niznag74


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Yes, I think they will feel if one of them are there they should be the pick. I only have a couple players I would want over them and they would have to fall to us.

2. Cooper does add more value bc he can play center, but I don't see Velasco leaving unless he sucks next year so that doesn't end up mattering to much.

3. It really depends on what they want at RG, do they want Warmack to get in there and just blow people off the line or do they want Cooper to be able to pull and move around like we did when we had Benji Olson playing RG.

4. I want to see Cooper or Warmack taken at 10, big need for us. Other spots we would take at 10 DT, DE, or CB IF and thats a big IF the right players are there.
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FinMan


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans0021 wrote:
3. Perhaps, but as they would be playing right guard, we may want more of a mauler in that spot anyways. Cooper's versatility certainly doesn't hurt, but I think they would simply take whichever they feel is the better player, regardless of scheme.



This has me thinking that Warmack is their guy at #10 with Star and Milliner off the board.

They have to support the running game for the sake of Locker's development, and Warmack is as good as any in that department.

The left side would be built to prioritize pass protection, while the right side would be built around the run game. That's ideally how teams build their offensive line anyway.
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Chocolateman78


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The primary argument for drafting a guard so high stems from this question. How are we going to stop JJ Watt?

To take the division from the Texans we're going to have to answer that question. The Texans are building a Tampa/Baltimore-esque defense that could be very good for a very long time. JJ Watt is the best player in the division right now, and he wasn't 100% last year, not to mention Cushing returns. I don't trust Rob turner or Chris Spencer to be that guy.

everyone knocks Warmack on athleticism, he moves good enough. dude just reminds me of Larry Allen. Him next to Big country just sounds devastating.

Also I feel like were moving away from the zone blocking scheme. I feel Chris Johnson is being phased out of Tennessee. I feel the move will be towards a power run game featuring backs who run downhill as opposed to ones who run laterally and look for daylight. less pulling, more man on and tandem blocks. I think CJ will be gone after this year and the future of the running game will be Shonne Greene and a back drafted this year or next.

I think Locker reminds them all of Steve McNair, and so they're trying to recreate the type of offense he thrived in.
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titansfb53


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titans fan 617 wrote:
Coopers a little bigger so im leaning towards Cooper but i can live with Warmack if Coopers drafted before we get to him


Warmack is bigger than Cooper and even so the rationale behind drafting a guy because he is bigger is for lack of a better word, dumb.

A guard a 10 is not worth it. Plenty of plug and play guards are available in rounds 2-4, sometimes later. 2 Pro Bowl guards were selected in the 1st round, Logan Mankins at 32 and Mike Iupati at 17 to get an idea of how high elite guards are selected. The rest came from all over such as Yanda round 3, Nicks round 5, and Evans round 4.

I'd rather see us take a tackle than a guard who can also play inside because either Stewart or Roos will be gone very soon and tackles are far more valuable than guards. Fluker could hold down the RG and then move out to tackle in a year or two. Drafting Cooper because he can play C doesn't make much sense as C don't go round 1 and Velasco should not be that difficult to retain compared to a tackle.

Defense should be priority 1 at #10 unless we trade down.
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Niznag74


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titansfb53 wrote:
Titans fan 617 wrote:
Coopers a little bigger so im leaning towards Cooper but i can live with Warmack if Coopers drafted before we get to him


Warmack is bigger than Cooper and even so the rationale behind drafting a guy because he is bigger is for lack of a better word, dumb.

A guard a 10 is not worth it. Plenty of plug and play guards are available in rounds 2-4, sometimes later. 2 Pro Bowl guards were selected in the 1st round, Logan Mankins at 32 and Mike Iupati at 17 to get an idea of how high elite guards are selected. The rest came from all over such as Yanda round 3, Nicks round 5, and Evans round 4.

I'd rather see us take a tackle than a guard who can also play inside because either Stewart or Roos will be gone very soon and tackles are far more valuable than guards. Fluker could hold down the RG and then move out to tackle in a year or two. Drafting Cooper because he can play C doesn't make much sense as C don't go round 1 and Velasco should not be that difficult to retain compared to a tackle.

Defense should be priority 1 at #10 unless we trade down.


This is all true before the rookie cap was in place. When you had to put out that much money you didn't want to spend it on a G, now you don't have to and you can take be best player even if they are a G. Getting the run game going, stopping Watt, and giving Locker time to pass all in one player, I'm all for it.
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TitanTuff


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niznag74 wrote:
This is all true before the rookie cap was in place. When you had to put out that much money you didn't want to spend it on a G, now you don't have to and you can take be best player even if they are a G. Getting the run game going, stopping Watt, and giving Locker time to pass all in one player, I'm all for it.



So much has been invested during the off season to complete the Titan's Offense puzzle. It seems we are lacking just one more piece (Warmack/Cooper) to completing it. On paper anyways. Why come up short? Finish the puzzle then focus on defense. My 2 cents.
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ttitansfan4life


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanTuff wrote:
Niznag74 wrote:
This is all true before the rookie cap was in place. When you had to put out that much money you didn't want to spend it on a G, now you don't have to and you can take be best player even if they are a G. Getting the run game going, stopping Watt, and giving Locker time to pass all in one player, I'm all for it.



So much has been invested during the off season to complete the Titan's Offense puzzle. It seems we are lacking just one more piece (Warmack/Cooper) to completing it. On paper anyways. Why come up short? Finish the puzzle then focus on defense. My 2 cents.


That offensive puzzle can be filled in the mid rounds with players like Warford, Schwenke, Jones, Winters, Fluker, Thomas, Pugh, etc.
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TitanTuff


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttitansfan4life wrote:
That offensive puzzle can be filled in the mid rounds with players like Warford, Schwenke, Jones, Winters, Fluker, Thomas, Pugh, etc.


I might give you Warford, but do you really prefer Schwenke, Jones, Winters, Fluker, Thomas, Pugh, etc. lining up against JJ Watts? Over Warmack or Cooper? If you were a betting man that's what you'd do?
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ttitansfan4life


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanTuff wrote:
ttitansfan4life wrote:
That offensive puzzle can be filled in the mid rounds with players like Warford, Schwenke, Jones, Winters, Fluker, Thomas, Pugh, etc.


I might give you Warford, but do you really prefer Schwenke, Jones, Winters, Fluker, Thomas, Pugh, etc. lining up against JJ Watts? Over Warmack or Cooper? If you were a betting man that's what you'd do?


That's right. This whole draft a lineman to contain Watt is ridiculous. How do they plan to stop Schaub and Foster running and passing all over them? Something they've done with ease the past couple of seasons. An OG is not worth a top 10 pick. All those guys, I feel plenty comfortable with them at RG.
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TitanTuff


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttitansfan4life wrote:
All those guys, I feel plenty comfortable with them at RG.


And that's cool. I just prefer confident>comfortable.
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Dionysus


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Yes, it would still make plenty of sense to take Warmack or Cooper. Signing Levitre was only step one of fixing our interior line. If both OGs are still on the board at #10, then we could risk trading back and still getting one of them.

2. Yes, Cooper would have more value in that sense, in an extreme emergency. But I personally would rather he stayed at Guard and not be the first option to play backup Center. If Velasco got injured, this is where Rob Turner would come in. And as for Velasco possibly leaving, we can draft a future prospect to groom with in the mid or late rounds, or extend Turnerís contract (if heís good).

3. If we intend to stick with zone blocking, then Cooper would currently be the better fit for us. Thatís not to say that Warmack wouldnít/couldnít catch on. It comes down to how we plan to run our blocking scheme. If Cooper is primarily our target and heís still there at #10, then I donít believe that we should risk trading back and end up losing him.

4. Whether both OGs are on the board or not, if we donít plan on taking a Guard in the 1st round, then we should definitely target a dominant DT.

The problem with this whole OG debate is, weíve been spoiled to not needing to take one in the 1st round because our O-line has always been solid. The truth is, we (the fans) have been so used to having good O-lines all these years until weíve been taking it for granted. As a matter of fact, we havenít considered taking a Guard this high since back in the day when we drafted Munchak and Matthews in the early 80s. But now that time has come again, and we need to jump on it. It irks me when people say that an OG is not as important, or they canít justify taking one in the 1st round. If weíre going to hang our hat on Jake Locker and a strong running game to lead this offense, then we need to take care of first things first. And the first order of business is securing our trenches by putting the best talent available on the front line, in front of our franchise QB and star RB. Itís not sexy, but itís totally necessary. No, itís not considered an ďimpactĒ position, but itís just as important, if not more. Donít get me wrong, every position of need is important, but the base foundation needs to be addressed first IMO. Itís like worrying about trying to spend money on some new dťcor for your house, meanwhile your front door is worn down and falling off the hinges. And thatís whatís been happening to our interior O-line over the last few seasons. So we just need to prioritize here.

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