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BigJohnson


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Redskins only 7 round mock Reply with quote

2. Markus Wheaton WR Oregon State
3. Vance McDonald TE Rice
4. Josh Evans FS Florida
5. Duke Williams SS/CB Nevada
5. Sanders Commings CB Georgia
6. Dennis Johnson RB Arkansas
7. Michael Buchannon DE Illinois

I'm sure a lot of people will complain that I didn't address the secondary until round 4, but that's because that's where I think the value will be. In this scenario, I anticipated that Cyprien and Elam were long gone by pick 51. The only other safety I would entertain at 51 would be Rambo, but he sort of goes against our philosophy of drafting high character guys/team captains. I have fallen in love with Markus Wheaton and I think he would give us another dynamic threat that would make our offense that much harder to stop. He can play outside, in the slot, and has even shown the ability to be really explosive on end arounds and other designed runs. Plus he was a team captain and was considered the hardest worker on the team. Vance McDonald would just be too good to pass up in round 3. Davis is coming off an achilles, Paul didn't show me anything, and Paulsen is a solid 2/3 option. I think if McDonald or Escobar are there in the third we will pull the trigger to give us another matchup nightmare to exploit defenses. I have us selecting Josh Evans in the fourth. No idea why he isn't receiving more hype. I think he can instantly be an upgrade at free safety. Commings/Williams give us more prospects to develop in the secondary. Dennis Johnson would give us a nice change of pace third down back and Buchannon would be a guy to develop as another pass rusher behind Orakpo/Kerrigan/Jackson.

Overall, I don't expect this to be too popular with everyone because a lot of people have us selecting secondary players with our 2nd/3rd. But I just have a weird feeling a lot of people are going to be shocked with our draft strategy this year. Call it a hunch, but I see the Shanahans wanting to add even more playmakers to this team and addressing the secondary with good value in rounds 4 and on. What do you guys think/how would you feel if this is how the draft played out?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rounds 4-7 is great.

I think taking a wr or TE is a waste this year. It could happen next year when Davis, Morgan and Moss could all be gone.

Of Course, like you said, I do have a feeling they will do something like this. It would not shock me. The secondary has been a problem since 2010, they know this and they've failed to address the issue with a high draft pick for 3 drafts.

I guess they feel the issue will just take care of itself? ... Confused Laughing Wink
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Woz


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could maybe see the Redskins taking a WR in the second, or a TE in the third ... but both? That's a bit risky.

Honestly, I know the pass catching, Gronk-clone is all the rage in the NFL right now, but it's not a major position. If you've got a guy, great. If not, you can get by. If we weren't going to go secondary in the 3rd after going WR in the second, I'd rather look at LB or RT. Tight end would be a luxury pick in this situation.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love this draft! I would be a huge fan. I think it's smart to continue to improve your strengths as a football team. Lots of teams draft this way.
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BigJohnson


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
I could maybe see the Redskins taking a WR in the second, or a TE in the third ... but both? That's a bit risky.

Honestly, I know the pass catching, Gronk-clone is all the rage in the NFL right now, but it's not a major position. If you've got a guy, great. If not, you can get by. If we weren't going to go secondary in the 3rd after going WR in the second, I'd rather look at LB or RT. Tight end would be a luxury pick in this situation.


I agree. Like I said, it's just this strange feeling I have. There were rumblings last offseason we were going to go hard after John Carlson before the cap hit took place on the eve of free agency. And you know Mike Shanahan emulates Bill Belichick to a degree since his year off of coaching he watched the Patriots practice and consulted him on various things. I could very much see Mike try to incorporate the double tight end approach if he had the pieces to do it. Not saying it's a must but I do think it's an idea that has crossed his mind.

As far as RT/LB I'm just not sure where we have any room besides maybe ILB. At RT we have Polumbus, Trueblood, Pashos, Compton, and even Hurt. Total log jam as it is. And at ILB, I think they really like Keenan Robinson so I doubt they think they could draft anyone better in the 3rd. I think we stay away from these positions until maybe the later rounds for purely depth purposes.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait we don't have room at LB because we have:

Fletch
Riley
Kehl
And an injured Robinson

We don't have room at Rt because we have:

Polumbus
Compton
Pashos
Trueblood

Yet, we have room at TE despite having 4 guys the coaching staff likes or loves:

Davis
Paulsen
Paul
Peterson

And we have room at WR despite having the deepest WR core we've had in 20 years?

Garcon
Morgan
Hankerson
Moss
Robinson
Briscoe

I'm sorry. I'm quite lost... Confused

Can someone help me find my way to depth in other positions besides the ones we already have good depth at?
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BigJohnson


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Rounds 4-7 is great.

I think taking a wr or TE is a waste this year. It could happen next year when Davis, Morgan and Moss could all be gone.

Of Course, like you said, I do have a feeling they will do something like this. It would not shock me. The secondary has been a problem since 2010, they know this and they've failed to address the issue with a high draft pick for 3 drafts.

I guess they feel the issue will just take care of itself? ... Confused Laughing Wink


Well I don't think it would necessarily be a waste. In fact, all of the good teams draft players so that when the current leave, they have guys waiting in the wings with a year of experience already. It's naive to think that you have to wait to draft a WR/TE once Moss, Morgan, and Davis are gone because by that point it will be too late. Good teams fill holes before they become holes if that makes any sense.

However, I do see your point. It wouldn't be smart to not address the secondary AGAIN and watch teams pass on us with ease. But Shanahan is kind of quirky that way. If he thinks the better value is their in rounds 4 and 5 I could see him waiting. IMO, Josh Evans is vastly underrated and I would consider that addressing the safety position. He has the range, athletic ability, and hitting ability that I like out of the free safety position. Duke Williams and Sanders Commings are loaded with potential as well so I don't think this draft would be a complete waste as far as addressing the secondary. But it would be risky, that's for sure.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Of Course, like you said, I do have a feeling they will do something like this. It would not shock me. The secondary has been a problem since 2010, they know this and they've failed to address the issue with a high draft pick for 3 drafts.


Well, let's be fair here:
2013 - Second half of the cap penalty basically forced us to make small moves. They did bring in E.J. Biggers and tried to get Antoine Winfield.

2012 - Griffin trade (tying up #2, giving up #45) made it so they couldn't. While they took LeRibeus at 72, only two safeties went after him before the Compensatory portion of the 4th round: Brandon Taylor at 73 (4 GP, 1 GS, 6 TKL (4 SOL), 0.5 SCK) and Brandon Hardin at 79 (no stats in 2012). They did make some moves for late round guys and UDFAs, but those were plans for the future. When combined with the cap penalty, there was no chance we could do much of anything beyond what we did.

2011 - With the lockout, free agency became a madhouse for players and teams. So, if they were going to pick someone up, they had to make a big move. Instead making a massive move for Asomugha (a Cerrato-style move), they got Josh Wilson at a relatively solid price (3 year/$13.5M/$9M guaranteed). You'll also forget that they signed Atogwe before the lockout; he just didn't pan out. Okay, they could have drafted someone that year, but would you be willing to give up Kerrigan? Top safeties that year were Rahim Moore and Jaiquawn Jarrett. That doesn't really set my hair on fire.

2010 - The big mistake: the McNabb deal. That took a ton of options away from them. They had little choice but to get a tackle at #4, but then they had to wait until the 4th (2nd went to Philly, 3rd was eaten up by Jarmon pick in Supplemental Draft). So, yes, you could argue that they didn't pay attention to safety here, but at the time we still had Landry and the thought was he'd be the guy.


Let's also be fair here:
Over the past three years, you and I both have decried that the offensive line was arguably the single biggest weakness of the team. They've spent much more time addressing that. As such, some parts had to fall by the wayside. Given who they've interviewed so far, it seems like they're now looking at the next biggest hole.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigJohnson wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Rounds 4-7 is great.

I think taking a wr or TE is a waste this year. It could happen next year when Davis, Morgan and Moss could all be gone.

Of Course, like you said, I do have a feeling they will do something like this. It would not shock me. The secondary has been a problem since 2010, they know this and they've failed to address the issue with a high draft pick for 3 drafts.

I guess they feel the issue will just take care of itself? ... Confused Laughing Wink


Well I don't think it would necessarily be a waste. In fact, all of the good teams draft players so that when the current leave, they have guys waiting in the wings with a year of experience already. It's naive to think that you have to wait to draft a WR/TE once Moss, Morgan, and Davis are gone because by that point it will be too late. Good teams fill holes before they become holes if that makes any sense.

However, I do see your point. It wouldn't be smart to not address the secondary AGAIN and watch teams pass on us with ease. But Shanahan is kind of quirky that way. If he thinks the better value is their in rounds 4 and 5 I could see him waiting. IMO, Josh Evans is vastly underrated and I would consider that addressing the safety position. He has the range, athletic ability, and hitting ability that I like out of the free safety position. Duke Williams and Sanders Commings are loaded with potential as well so I don't think this draft would be a complete waste as far as addressing the secondary. But it would be risky, that's for sure.
i definitely agree with that whole post.

Remember mike shanahans defenses after the older vets on his super bowl D's retired in the early/mid 2000s? And he kept missing on picks, trades and FAs for several years. It led to him getting fired.
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BigJohnson


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Wait we don't have room at LB because we have:

Fletch
Riley
Kehl
And an injured Robinson

We don't have room at Rt because we have:

Polumbus
Compton
Pashos
Trueblood

Yet, we have room at TE despite having 4 guys the coaching staff likes or loves:

Davis
Paulsen
Paul
Peterson

And we have room at WR despite having the deepest WR core we've had in 20 years?

Garcon
Morgan
Hankerson
Moss
Robinson
Briscoe

I'm sorry. I'm quite lost... Confused

Can someone help me find my way to depth in other positions besides the ones we already have good depth at?


This isn't even what I necessarily want or hope to happen, it's just a gut feeling like I said.

At ILB we have Fletcher and Riley as the starters and Robinson (he's not injured anymore), Muckleroy, and Kehl as backups. Like I said, I could see us addressing ILB in the later rounds for strictly depth purposes. But ideally in the third round you want that guy to become a future starter and I think that they think they already have the future starter in Robinson. I don't see the need to add another ILB with such a high pick when we just drafted Fletcher's replacement in the fourth last year.

And at tackle it's a complete log jam. There is only one starting RT whereas their are multiple WR/TE sets so you can't really compare the two positions. We addressed the RT position this year the same way we addressed the safety position last year. We signed a bunch of guys and will let them all battle it out for the starting job. Drafting another would just make it even more of a log jam, and I just don't see Shanallen drafting another RT so high unless its just too good value to pass up.

Our tight end position is a lot more up in the air. Davis still isn't running. Paul could barely catch a cold last year. Paulsen is a solid 2/3 guy like I said. And Peterson is the same thing at the TE position that a guy like Compton is to the RT position which is completely unproven. I'm just not sold on our TE position being set. Don't take this as me saying our RT position is completely set either, but the fact that we resigned Polumbus, and then brought in Trueblood and Pashos tells me that we won't be prioritizing a RT high in the draft. I'm trying to think how Shanahan would.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigJohnson wrote:
I agree. Like I said, it's just this strange feeling I have. There were rumblings last offseason we were going to go hard after John Carlson before the cap hit took place on the eve of free agency. And you know Mike Shanahan emulates Bill Belichick to a degree since his year off of coaching he watched the Patriots practice and consulted him on various things. I could very much see Mike try to incorporate the double tight end approach if he had the pieces to do it. Not saying it's a must but I do think it's an idea that has crossed his mind.


Defensively, he's followed Belichick. Offensively, he's charted his own path.

Quote:
As far as RT/LB I'm just not sure where we have any room besides maybe ILB. At RT we have Polumbus, Trueblood, Pashos, Compton, and even Hurt. Total log jam as it is. And at ILB, I think they really like Keenan Robinson so I doubt they think they could draft anyone better in the 3rd. I think we stay away from these positions until maybe the later rounds for purely depth purposes.


All three right tackles we signed, we signed this year. Let's see what they got:
Polumbus: 2 year/$2M/$0.2M signing bonus (yes, $200K)
Trueblood: 1 year/$0.905M/$0.065M signing bonus (yes, $65K; for cap purposes, he only counts for $620K)
Pashos: 1 year/$0.840M no bonus

Hurt apparently was backing up Trent on the left side. Compton would nominally be the long term guy if they can get him to fill the spot.

Still, it's more a branch or twig jam than a log jam. All of those guys are easily replaceable, especially if something better came along.

As for linebacker, yeah, I was thinking mainly inside. We have Fletcher, Riley, Robinson, and ... Kehl? Muckelroy? So'oto? Having a fourth mainstay guy (with an obvious upgrade to #1 backup next year) would be a good idea.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear ya Big Johnson. I have a feeling it will happen also and then everyone will complain about the secondary and how "Hasslett" is costing us wins all year but it wouldn't be his fault IMO.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigJohnson wrote:
At ILB we have Fletcher and Riley as the starters and Robinson (he's not injured anymore), Muckleroy, and Kehl as backups. Like I said, I could see us addressing ILB in the later rounds for strictly depth purposes. But ideally in the third round you want that guy to become a future starter and I think that they think they already have the future starter in Robinson. I don't see the need to add another ILB with such a high pick when we just drafted Fletcher's replacement in the fourth last year.


Kehl's a special teams guy, and Muckelroy has played in 19 games in three years, totaling 11 tackles. That's some very thin backups.

We've also seen that this coaching staff has no problem creating competition at various places (RB, RT). If Robinson and/or Riley falter, they're going to want someone to fill their shoes.

Quote:
And at tackle it's a complete log jam. There is only one starting RT whereas their are multiple WR/TE sets so you can't really compare the two positions. We addressed the RT position this year the same way we addressed the safety position last year. We signed a bunch of guys and will let them all battle it out for the starting job. Drafting another would just make it even more of a log jam, and I just don't see Shanallen drafting another RT so high unless its just too good value to pass up.


As I said early, not that big of a log jam since they basically went with the "monkey poo" approach. None of the guys there is a long term solution, only a short term fix because of the cap penalty. Also, I forgot to mention: Hurt is a free agent in 2015 and Compton would be a RFA in 2015 as well.

I will however concede the point that Shanahan might not elect to draft a right tackle in the third because that's not how he rolls.

Quote:
Our tight end position is a lot more up in the air. Davis still isn't running. Paul could barely catch a cold last year. Paulsen is a solid 2/3 guy like I said. And Peterson is the same thing at the TE position that a guy like Compton is to the RT position which is completely unproven. I'm just not sold on our TE position being set. Don't take this as me saying our RT position is completely set either, but the fact that we resigned Polumbus, and then brought in Trueblood and Pashos tells me that we won't be prioritizing a RT high in the draft. I'm trying to think how Shanahan would.


Of course, with Davis out most of the year, and dealing with Paul and Paulsen, the Redskins offense was quite prolific, so the question: do they really need a TE?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigJohnson wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Wait we don't have room at LB because we have:

Fletch
Riley
Kehl
And an injured Robinson

We don't have room at Rt because we have:

Polumbus
Compton
Pashos
Trueblood

Yet, we have room at TE despite having 4 guys the coaching staff likes or loves:

Davis
Paulsen
Paul
Peterson

And we have room at WR despite having the deepest WR core we've had in 20 years?

Garcon
Morgan
Hankerson
Moss
Robinson
Briscoe

I'm sorry. I'm quite lost... Confused

Can someone help me find my way to depth in other positions besides the ones we already have good depth at?


This isn't even what I necessarily want or hope to happen, it's just a gut feeling like I said.

At ILB we have Fletcher and Riley as the starters and Robinson (he's not injured anymore), Muckleroy, and Kehl as backups. Like I said, I could see us addressing ILB in the later rounds for strictly depth purposes. But ideally in the third round you want that guy to become a future starter and I think that they think they already have the future starter in Robinson. I don't see the need to add another ILB with such a high pick when we just drafted Fletcher's replacement in the fourth last year.

And at tackle it's a complete log jam. There is only one starting RT whereas their are multiple WR/TE sets so you can't really compare the two positions. We addressed the RT position this year the same way we addressed the safety position last year. We signed a bunch of guys and will let them all battle it out for the starting job. Drafting another would just make it even more of a log jam, and I just don't see Shanallen drafting another RT so high unless its just too good value to pass up.

Our tight end position is a lot more up in the air. Davis still isn't running. Paul could barely catch a cold last year. Paulsen is a solid 2/3 guy like I said. And Peterson is the same thing at the TE position that a guy like Compton is to the RT position which is completely unproven. I'm just not sold on our TE position being set. Don't take this as me saying our RT position is completely set either, but the fact that we resigned Polumbus, and then brought in Trueblood and Pashos tells me that we won't be prioritizing a RT high in the draft. I'm trying to think how Shanahan would.
because we run so much we really don't throw to the tight ends that much anymore and Rg3 pushes the ball downfield and uses the tight end as an outlet if he doesn't find anything downfield, the most important thing to our TE in this offense the way we ran it last year was blocking and that's why Paulsen was so important.

If Paulsen was starting all year I'm sure he would have had 40 to 50 catches for around 500-600 yds and 3 or 4 TDs. That's more than serviceable and he's a good, if not great blocker.

Paul will be better this year, last year was his 1st year at TE. I thought I read Davis was jogging, I could be wrong though.

Yes we have bodies at ILB for depth and Rt, but lets be honest, they don't make anyone exited.

At wr and TE we have guys we know we can count on and we have multiple guys for different looks who have different skill sets. We have good wrs on the outside who are big and good blockers, we have a deep threat and we have one of the best slot wrs in the NFL.

I'm not sure what were missing there... Confused
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Woz


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
At wr and TE we have guys we know we can count on and we have multiple guys for different looks who have different skill sets. We have good wrs on the outside who are big and good blockers, we have a deep threat and we have one of the best slot wrs in the NFL.


I'm with you on the TE front, but our WR situation isn't locked down by any means.

We have Garcon who, when healthy, looks like he could be our #1. The big question mark is the health part. The little question mark is his hands.

We Josh Morgan and Santana Moss, a good two/three pair ... except they are going to be free agents after the season. Moss will be 35 when September 2014 rolls around, so you have to figure they won't look to re-sign him. Morgan would be 29, so he's still got some years in the tank, but do they want to put the money into him?

However, they are not the only WRs that could be gone after next year. Dezmon Briscoe is an unrestricted free agent (UFA) after this year. Given that he was a minor pickup, they might not bother with him going forward. Aldrick Robinson's contract expires after this season, but since he's only got two years under his belt, he'll be an exclusive rights free agent (ERFA) in 2014 and a restricted free agent in 2015 unless they sign him to a longer deal (doubtful).

Then there's Leonard Hankerson, who may be a stud for us, or a dud. It's kind of a make or break year for him. At least he's signed through 2014. Of the young guys, only Hank and Darius Hanks are signed past this season, but both contracts end in 2015. Hankerson would be a UFA, and Hanks would be a ERFA (if he even makes the roster this year).

So, a WR in the third (possibly in the second if there is no value in terms of secondary players) makes a fair amount of sense. Again, this assumes that the other high-ish pick would be devoted to the secondary.
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