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Patriots sign WR Emmanuel Sanders to offer; Steelers match
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Billy Spikes


Joined: 12 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

***Update***
Quote:
Steelers still undecided on matching Sanders offer sheet. will come down to Sunday, and ownership likely to make final call ...


http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/statuses/322853405544566785

Quote:
Big Ben has been lobbying hard to retain Sanders, calling coach Mike Tomlin and others on the staff urging them to match the $2.5M offer


http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/statuses/322853589640945664
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
***Update***
Quote:
Steelers still undecided on matching Sanders offer sheet. will come down to Sunday, and ownership likely to make final call ...


http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/statuses/322853405544566785

Quote:
Big Ben has been lobbying hard to retain Sanders, calling coach Mike Tomlin and others on the staff urging them to match the $2.5M offer


http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/statuses/322853589640945664


Ben also lobbied to keep fata$$ Willie Colon on the roster, and that blew up in our face. He needs to shut up and stop trying to run the team.

Like I said, if we can sign Sanders to a reasonable longer term deal, Im down with it, but if we are only doing it for one season, its idiotic.
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If Big Ben wants E. Sanders badly enough he can help out by taking a pay cut. A REAL pay cut, not a restructure.


http://twitter.com/RossTuckerNFL/statuses/322868933084450816
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DudeWhat??


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Billy Spikes wrote:
***Update***
Quote:
Steelers still undecided on matching Sanders offer sheet. will come down to Sunday, and ownership likely to make final call ...


http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/statuses/322853405544566785

Quote:
Big Ben has been lobbying hard to retain Sanders, calling coach Mike Tomlin and others on the staff urging them to match the $2.5M offer


http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/statuses/322853589640945664


Ben also lobbied to keep fata$$ Willie Colon on the roster, and that blew up in our face. He needs to shut up and stop trying to run the team.

Like I said, if we can sign Sanders to a reasonable longer term deal, Im down with it, but if we are only doing it for one season, its idiotic.


Com'on 43..i mean..I dont like Colon that much either..but we did end up getting alot out of him..not too mention..he looked pretty good as a guard..i say big ben was right on that one..besides..it's a good thing for a qb to stand up for the oline..in a world where even peyton manning would throw jeff saturday under the bus..
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macklemore


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why do the steelers suck at keeping their wr's?
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
why do the steelers suck at keeping their wr's?


Stereotypical WR's want the attention and Pittsburgh is a team first. Add in that someone is always willing to overpay a player coming from a good team and there you go.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
why do the steelers suck at keeping their wr's?


Teams with elite (or borderline in Ben's case) QBs dont need to overspend to keep WRs around, unless they are truly special. When these receivers leave Pittsburgh, they usually arent as productive. The Steelers will find another receiver with ease.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I don't know.

They didn't replace Plaxico that easily. They didn't replace Santonio Holmes that easily. They already have to replace Wallace, this is just even more stuff.

Hines Ward is the only one who was seamlessly replaced by antnio Brown.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DudeWhat?? wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Billy Spikes wrote:
***Update***
Quote:
Steelers still undecided on matching Sanders offer sheet. will come down to Sunday, and ownership likely to make final call ...


http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/statuses/322853405544566785

Quote:
Big Ben has been lobbying hard to retain Sanders, calling coach Mike Tomlin and others on the staff urging them to match the $2.5M offer


http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/statuses/322853589640945664


Ben also lobbied to keep fata$$ Willie Colon on the roster, and that blew up in our face. He needs to shut up and stop trying to run the team.

Like I said, if we can sign Sanders to a reasonable longer term deal, Im down with it, but if we are only doing it for one season, its idiotic.


Com'on 43..i mean..I dont like Colon that much either..but we did end up getting alot out of him..not too mention..he looked pretty good as a guard..i say big ben was right on that one..besides..it's a good thing for a qb to stand up for the oline..in a world where even peyton manning would throw jeff saturday under the bus..


We got alot out of him? He only had one year that could be classified as even better than average. And Ben lobbied to extend him the season after he came off of a season ending Achilles injury. I dont blame Ben for actually giving the fat POS a contract, but I dont think the FO wouldve pushed as hard to keep him if not for that.

Secondly...he sucked at guard. SUCKED OUT LOUD. Ask kethaab for the breakdown. Our OLine was better when Colon wasnt even on the field. Just like at OT, he had a few decent outings, but for the most part was terrible.

Finally, Ben doesnt need to throw his lineman under the bus, but when you defend fat trashbags like Chris Kemoeatu and Willie Colon even when they are terrible, that is ridiculous. From time to time, maybe, but Ben I remember Ben defended Chris Kemo-eat-u after a game in which he got pancaked like 5 times by Ngata, and was manhandled all game.

Did we get alot out of Colon given his draft status? Yes.

But he never shouldve been starting after 2008 when he was laughably bad, and he never shouldve gotten that long term extension, especially after a serious injury.
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Bobikus


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
They didn't replace Plaxico that easily.


They weren't passing enough at the time to be worth keeping two higher priced WRs, Ward was still great, and passing didn't drop off without Plax. By the time we were passing more, Plax was replaced by Holmes.

Quote:
They didn't replace Santonio Holmes that easily.


Uhh, yes we did. Wallace had better production the year after Holmes left than Holmes ever had.


Seriously, you followed "didn't replace that WR easily" by listing his replacement, and in the second case it was pretty much a straight upgrade.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Oh, I don't know.

They didn't replace Plaxico that easily. They didn't replace Santonio Holmes that easily. They already have to replace Wallace, this is just even more stuff.

Hines Ward is the only one who was seamlessly replaced by antnio Brown.


Seriously, stick to pimping out Randy Moss, because you have no clue what you are talking about here.

Ben had an even better season the year after we lost Plax, and we got Holmes a year later. And as Bobikus mentioned we werent a passing team at the time. We actually got Heath Miller to replace Plax in 2005 and that worked out just fine.

The year after we lost Holmes, Wallace had a better season than Holmes ever did for us.

And while Wallace is a loss, he wasnt a great fit for this offense anyway.

Sanders isnt even a starter and while he has talent, hasnt done nearly enough to make him "hard to replace.

In REALITY, WR has been one position the Steelers have replaced quite well.

The Patriots have had a much harder time replacing WRs than the Steelers have.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did Pittsburg's cap situation get so screwed up?
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
How did Pittsburg's cap situation get so screwed up?
So many years of "restructuring" contracts and pushing cap dollars onto other years is starting to catch up to them. It won't be getting much better either since they did that same crap this year with a handful of players.
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Rygar


Joined: 23 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boltstrikes wrote:
Stereotypical WR's want the attention and Pittsburgh is a team first. Add in that someone is always willing to overpay a player coming from a good team and there you go.


Truth is, there's been no position on the Steelers more overrated than WR, and it's been this way for years.


NextBigThing wrote:
Oh, I don't know.

They didn't replace Plaxico that easily. They didn't replace Santonio Holmes that easily. They already have to replace Wallace, this is just even more stuff.

Hines Ward is the only one who was seamlessly replaced by antnio Brown.


This just proves my point about how people think Steelers WRs are better than they really are. Hell, let's examine the WRs of the Roethlisberger era:


Hines Ward - The only consistently good WR the Steelers have had.

Plaxico Burress - Left after Roethlisberger's rookie season, past his prime now.

Antwaan Randle El - Made as many dumb plays as great plays, both as a WR and on STs.

Nate Washington - Competent, but never anything special.

Cedrick Wilson - Just a body.

Santonio Holmes - Had the potential to be great, but lacked focus and accountability, and became a diva.

Mike Wallace - Had the potential to be great, but lacked focus and dedication, and became a diva.

Antonio Brown - Has the potential to be great, but disappointed last season.

Emmanuel Sanders - Largely unrealized potential due to injury problems.


And despite the inconsistencies and the amount of turnover at the position, the Steelers still have six playoff appearances, four AFC Championship Game appearances, three AFC championships and two Super Bowl championships in the last nine seasons. This proves that the WRs haven't been as vital to the team's success as most people believe they have.


DirtyDez wrote:
How did Pittsburg's cap situation get so screwed up?

By having a franchise QB and an excellent defense. It gets expensive keeping them all together after a while.


Ketchup wrote:
So many years of "restructuring" contracts and pushing cap dollars onto other years is starting to catch up to them. It won't be getting much better either since they did that same crap this year with a handful of players.


What people (including you, apparently) don't understand is, by the time the restucturing starts to add up, the players who have done it the most are either past their primes and ready to be cut, or due for contract extensions. Both provide salary cap relief. Have you ever noticed how the Steelers have never had much wiggle room under the salary cap? And have you ever noticed how it's always the same group of players who restructure their contracts from one season to the next? There's a method to what you perceive as madness.

It's no coincidence that these salary cap "problems" came about at the same time that a large number of players on defense began to age. The aging players were the ones who did the most restructuring, so once they became too old and expensive, they were cut. This process is still playing out as the defense undergoes a protracted youth movement. And defense aside, having a franchise QB ain't exactly cap-friendly for any team.

Last off-season, James Farrior and Aaron Smith were gone. This off-season, Casey Hampton and James Harrison are gone. Next off-season, Ryan Clark, Brett Keisel and Ike Taylor will be gone. What do they all have in common? They're all in their mid-30's. And none of this factors in offensive players like Hines Ward, Willie Colon and Chris Kemoeatu, who all saved the team a lot of money when they were cut.

By the time Troy Polamalu is gone two off-seasons from now, Steve McLendon, Lawrence Timmons and LaMarr Woodley will be the three oldest starters on the defense. They'll all be 29 when the 2015 season starts. Timmons, Woodley and Roethlisberger were the only players to restructure their contracts this off-season. Expect all three of them to get cap-friendly contract extensions in the not-too-distant future, and also expect those to be each of their final contracts with the team.

Truth is, the Steelers have not been forced to part ways with any players they've wanted to keep, aside from maybe James Harrison, and he wouldn't have been around much longer regardless. Every player they've parted ways with the last two off-seasons has been a has-been (Farrior, Hampton, Harrison, Smith, Ward), a never-was (Colon, Kemoeatu), or a malcontent (Rashard Mendenhall, Mike Wallace). I don't know what to make of the Keenan Lewis situation, but considering the Steelers didn't offer him a contract extension, they must have been comfortable letting him go too.

The Steelers will be in "cap hell" the moment they're forced to cut players in their primes who they want to keep, and not a moment sooner. They haven't had to do that yet, and there's no guarantee they ever will either.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rygar wrote:
Mike Wallace - Had the potential to be great, but lacked focus and dedication, and became a diva


Completely false.

If I hear one more Steeler fan claim Wallace is/was a diva, Im going to be sick. Just because he didnt take the first lowball offer thrown at him doesnt mean he was a diva.

And Wallace was an extremely hard worker. Saying he lacked dedication is a joke.

You COULD argue he lost focus over the last season and a half, but the talent is still there and he is hard worker. His first half of 2011 he was a beast, but then he fell off, but then again, Ben wasnt able to throw the deep ball well after being injured in the Browns game that year. And in 2012, he played in an offense that didnt utilize his main strength as well as Arians offense did.

Wallace's issue is he is too one dimensional. He is still a gamebreaker and a nice talent, but his inability to run quality short and intermediate routes and get open on routes that werent fly routes hurt him since mid 2011.

People overrate the loss, only because he wasnt a great fit for us. If we lost Wallace under Arians, it would be a much bigger loss. In Haley's offense, it was a moderate loss. It will suck not having that speed demon on the outside, but our offense would fair much better wtih a guy that can consistently get open inside 20 yards and is willing to go across the middle, and make the tough catches ala Hines Ward.
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