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Patriots sign WR Emmanuel Sanders to offer; Steelers match
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Sciz wrote:
Babylon wrote:
Okay Pats, Steelers fans, update your opinions accordingly.
I would have liked to see him on the Pats, and I think Pittsburgh made a terrible decision.


I dont get this.

You WOULD have liked to seen him on your team, yet the Steelers made a bad decision for keeping that player?

Care to explain?


Would be the case if the Steelers weren't able/planning to retain him past this year. But, I'm guessing if they passed on such a decent draft pick, they do plan to keep him long term.


I agree with that and stated it myself several times.

But at this point, we cant say anything either way. At this point next year, if we are talking about Sanders leaving, then I will completely agree that it was a terrible decision. At this point, its wait and see.
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Sciz


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
I dont get this.

You WOULD have liked to seen him on your team, yet the Steelers made a bad decision for keeping that player?

Care to explain?
I think that Sanders would have been much more likely to make the Pats a Super Bowl contending team than the Steelers, and the Patriots don't have the cap nightmare this offseason and next.

I think it's pretty unanimous that this is a bad move if the Steelers let Sanders go after this one year.

With $80M invested in 8 players next season*, how do you propose they sign another player (Sanders) to a moderately sized contract without having minimum salary guys everywhere else on the roster?

*Next season meaning 2014


Last edited by Sciz on Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Sciz wrote:
Babylon wrote:
Okay Pats, Steelers fans, update your opinions accordingly.
I would have liked to see him on the Pats, and I think Pittsburgh made a terrible decision.


I dont get this.

You WOULD have liked to seen him on your team, yet the Steelers made a bad decision for keeping that player?

Care to explain?


Would be the case if the Steelers weren't able/planning to retain him past this year. But, I'm guessing if they passed on such a decent draft pick, they do plan to keep him long term.


Hope so
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goldfishwars


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow crazy from Pittsburgh - why would you screw your cap situation further for a guy who might leave after one year?
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PatriotsWin!


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
I dont get this.

You WOULD have liked to seen him on your team, yet the Steelers made a bad decision for keeping that player?

Care to explain?
I think that Sanders would have been much more likely to make the Pats a Super Bowl contending team than the Steelers, and the Patriots don't have the cap nightmare this offseason and next.

I think it's pretty unanimous that this is a bad move if the Steelers let Sanders go after this one year.

With $80M invested in 8 players next season, how do you propose they sign another player (Sanders) to a moderately sized contract without having minimum salary guys everywhere else on the roster?


That's nuts. And they just keep restructuring, making the cap situation in future years even worse. That bubble is going to pop soon, the Steelers GM needs to structure contracts better.

But anyway, I'm conflicted about not getting Sanders. I realize we need WRs badly and anyone in the draft is probably not going to contribute as quickly as Sanders. But on the other hand, there are some really good WRs in this draft we could land with that 3rd pick. Had the Sanders offer been a long term deal, I might have leaned more towards disappointed but as it stand, I'm cool with the outcome.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
I dont get this.

You WOULD have liked to seen him on your team, yet the Steelers made a bad decision for keeping that player?

Care to explain?
I think that Sanders would have been much more likely to make the Pats a Super Bowl contending team than the Steelers, and the Patriots don't have the cap nightmare this offseason and next.

I think it's pretty unanimous that this is a bad move if the Steelers let Sanders go after this one year.

With $80M invested in 8 players next season*, how do you propose they sign another player (Sanders) to a moderately sized contract without having minimum salary guys everywhere else on the roster?

*Next season meaning 2014


Here's the thing though, if Sanders is as good as Pittsburgh is hoping (and I'm assuming they wouldn't have matched unless they figure him to be their #2 in 2013) - he's likely going to sign a big contract next March.

Considering the Steelers don't really sign FA's (or big ticket ones), they're likely to get a comp pick for Sanders in the 2015 draft.

So, they get (at least) 1 year of a solid #2 option who knows the system and has the trust of their QB and possibly (probably) some sort of pick 2 years down the road if/when he leaves.

I don't know that they're losing much, if anything, here. Unless they were planning on a total rebuild in 2013 (which they aren't obviously), there is no reason to think they won't be in contention for the AFC North and/or a wildcard spot. Sanders is going to contribute a lot more to that goal than a late 3rd rounder.

What's the downside here? They pass up a late 3rd rounder (which history tells us is unlikely to produce a starting caliber player, especially in a weak draft like this) for a year of quality service. If he walks next year, so be it. But 1 year of quality starting production + a comp pick (even if a 5th rounder) is probably more value than a late 3rd rounder is going to provide.
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patman


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Sciz wrote:
Babylon wrote:
Okay Pats, Steelers fans, update your opinions accordingly.
I would have liked to see him on the Pats, and I think Pittsburgh made a terrible decision.


I dont get this.

You WOULD have liked to seen him on your team, yet the Steelers made a bad decision for keeping that player?

Care to explain?


Would be the case if the Steelers weren't able/planning to retain him past this year. But, I'm guessing if they passed on such a decent draft pick, they do plan to keep him long term.


Exactly, But Both the player and the agent are in the pats debt, they got his salary doubled and the pats may have a leg up next year.
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patman


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatriotsWin! wrote:
Sciz wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
I dont get this.

You WOULD have liked to seen him on your team, yet the Steelers made a bad decision for keeping that player?

Care to explain?
I think that Sanders would have been much more likely to make the Pats a Super Bowl contending team than the Steelers, and the Patriots don't have the cap nightmare this offseason and next.

I think it's pretty unanimous that this is a bad move if the Steelers let Sanders go after this one year.

With $80M invested in 8 players next season, how do you propose they sign another player (Sanders) to a moderately sized contract without having minimum salary guys everywhere else on the roster?


That's nuts. And they just keep restructuring, making the cap situation in future years even worse. That bubble is going to pop soon, the Steelers GM needs to structure contracts better.

But anyway, I'm conflicted about not getting Sanders. I realize we need WRs badly and anyone in the draft is probably not going to contribute as quickly as Sanders. But on the other hand, there are some really good WRs in this draft we could land with that 3rd pick. Had the Sanders offer been a long term deal, I might have leaned more towards disappointed but as it stand, I'm cool with the outcome.


The Sanders deal would have been converted to a long term deal, and I am pretty sure the parameters were in place. Long term deals are easier to match so that IMO is why the deal was done that way. I wanted him, but theguy I really want is another Ex-steeler, Washington.
The Titans would let him go cheap as there were rumors of locker room trouble. the only thing is he salary is 10 mill over the next two years.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patman wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
Sciz wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
I dont get this.

You WOULD have liked to seen him on your team, yet the Steelers made a bad decision for keeping that player?

Care to explain?
I think that Sanders would have been much more likely to make the Pats a Super Bowl contending team than the Steelers, and the Patriots don't have the cap nightmare this offseason and next.

I think it's pretty unanimous that this is a bad move if the Steelers let Sanders go after this one year.

With $80M invested in 8 players next season, how do you propose they sign another player (Sanders) to a moderately sized contract without having minimum salary guys everywhere else on the roster?


That's nuts. And they just keep restructuring, making the cap situation in future years even worse. That bubble is going to pop soon, the Steelers GM needs to structure contracts better.

But anyway, I'm conflicted about not getting Sanders. I realize we need WRs badly and anyone in the draft is probably not going to contribute as quickly as Sanders. But on the other hand, there are some really good WRs in this draft we could land with that 3rd pick. Had the Sanders offer been a long term deal, I might have leaned more towards disappointed but as it stand, I'm cool with the outcome.


The Sanders deal would have been converted to a long term deal, and I am pretty sure the parameters were in place. Long term deals are easier to match so that IMO is why the deal was done that way. I wanted him, but theguy I really want is another Ex-steeler, Washington.
The Titans would let him go cheap as there were rumors of locker room trouble. the only thing is he salary is 10 mill over the next two years.


Nate Washington?

At this point, Sanders isnt better, but he has far more upside.

Nate Washington would just be another average WR for the Pats. Sanders mightve been as well, but as I said, he has far more upside.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldfishwars wrote:
Wow crazy from Pittsburgh - why would you screw your cap situation further for a guy who might leave after one year?


How exactly does it screw their cap situation?

I agree with you guys about it being stupid if they dont have a long term plan for him, but you guys are drastically underrating our chances of signing him. Sanders isnt going to command a huge contract most likely, and as long as we can get a decent cap number for him in 2014, they will be able to sign him long term....as long as they dont let him reach FA, at least.

And next year, Ben will likely be extended which should drastically reduce his cap hit, and some of our aging vets with only 1 year left will likely be cut or extended, depending how old and important they are.
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PatriotsWin!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The danger for the Steelers is they can't really sign him to a long term deal until next year when he's set to become a free agent and risk losing him. Well technically they could, but they don't have the cap space. They can't lower his $2.5 million this year and adding any signing bonus from a long term deal will only increase his cap hit... Unless there's no signing bonus in the long term deal, but Sanders would never agree to that.
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SaveourSonics


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lose/lose situation IMO. If I'm a Steelers fan, I'm not happy. If I'm a Pats fan, I'm not happy.

The Steelers have proven to be very good at replacing WRs over the years and have excelled at letting these type of guys move on when necessary. Sanders really hasn't done all that much in this league and a 3rd rounder in this years draft + the salary relief would have been huge. I would much rather have that 3rd than Sanders if I'm a PIT fan.

On the contrary, New England has pretty much proven to be awful at evaluating WRs in the draft. To be honest, I think their evaluation of Sanders isn't that good. I don't think he's worth a 3rd. With that said, if I'm a Pats fan I would prefer to give up a late 3rd for a young guy at a position where we've been awful at drafting. Sanders would at least be better than the guys they've been selecting.
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This will take some time to decide if it was the right move for the Steelers. If they are unable to sign him after this season, it's a obvious bad move. IF they are able to sign him to an extension, then I see it as the right move. All depends on how they plan to move forward with him.
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SaveourSonics


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
This will take some time to decide if it was the right move for the Steelers. If they are unable to sign him after this season, it's a obvious bad move. IF they are able to sign him to an extension, then I see it as the right move. All depends on how they plan to move forward with him.


If they can afford to resign him, that means he didn't play up to the ability of that potential 3rd round pick (at least IMO). If they can't afford him, that means he did play at that level or better, and they just matched an offer for a player for a 1-year rental.
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steelcurtain29


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldfishwars wrote:
Wow crazy from Pittsburgh - why would you screw your cap situation further for a guy who might leave after one year?


This! Over and over again! I hate the decision to match the offer. Sanders signing the tender with them was a clear-cut "I want out" move. He's likely now going to leave next year and sign with New England; and we get no pick for it.

I want him here; but the signing there made it clear he wanted to go there.
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