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Keenan Allen is slow as Christmas.
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chuck44


Joined: 17 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
chuck44 wrote:
which means it was never fully healed...and if it was.. is this going to be a lingering issue that he tweeks often and misses game after game..and why do you never mention his ankle surgery in spring ball...torn ligaments that had to be repaired...i have had ankle sugery on both my ankles 15 years ago and they still give me problems.

Its not like this guy has Randy Moss skills coming out where you can overlook some issues....can we really afford to draft a guy that has an INJURY HISTORY...there are many comparable receivers in this draft to take that are not as risky....


I don't mention ankle surgery because it only caused him to miss spring practice and he hasn't had an issue since. And using ankle surgery from 15 years ago as evidence is just wrong; procedures have changed multiple times in 15 years.

The injury not fully healing isn't necessarily an indictment on his body either. It's an indictment on the training staff, or him, for allowing him to return too quickly. I'm not saying that teams shouldn't do their due diligence on his medicals, but I am saying that if his knee has been cleared, by our trainers, to be 100% like his trainers say then it's a non-issue to me.

This is kind of my area as well, I happily get to put ATC after my signature in e-mails and at the top of my resume.

There is also maybe one comparable receiver to Keenan Allen in this draft, not many (DeAndre Hopkins).



Your obviously a Allen fan And I am not...but I am willing to place a wager that we dont touch Allen at all...

Justin Hunter ,Da'Rick Rodgers, Quinton Patton,Corderelle Patterson...they are not comparable to Allen... All comparable size, all are Faster, ALL are Healthly and been tested and put up very good numbers in college

If Da'rick Rodgers wasnt an Idiot he would be the number one receiver taken...He produced against elite talent in the SEC, put up big numbers
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are healthier, an arguably faster, but...

None of them have Allen's...

- Body Control
- Route Running Ability (maybe Patton)
- Ability to find soft spots in zone coverage
- Toughness in going over the middle of the field (maybe Rodgers)

Out of the four you mentioned, I would love to have Patton or Rodgers, particularly in the 2nd round if they are available. I wouldn't touch Hunter or Patterson due to low floors.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
They are healthier, an arguably faster, but...

None of them have Allen's...

- Body Control
- Route Running Ability (maybe Patton)
- Ability to find soft spots in zone coverage
- Toughness in going over the middle of the field (maybe Rodgers)

Out of the four you mentioned, I would love to have Patton or Rodgers, particularly in the 2nd round if they are available. I wouldn't touch Hunter or Patterson due to low floors.


I dont think Patterson has a low floor at all. He is already explosive as hell and great after the catch.

Worst case, you have Percy Harvin. Patterson has that kind of ability with the ball in his hands, catching bubble screens and short drags isnt hard to do. Patterson has already proven to be one of the mot dangerous YAC receivers in college and I would consider that a very transferable skill.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patterson's floor is a good kick off returner. Saying that someones floor is that of an elite slot receiver and returner? Sounds like he's the safest pick in the draft.

There are many other receivers in college that have proven to be dangerous with the ball in their hands that haven't translated to the NFL
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
Patterson's floor is a good kick off returner. Saying that someones floor is that of an elite slot receiver and returner? Sounds like he's the safest pick in the draft.

There are many other receivers in college that have proven to be dangerous with the ball in their hands that haven't translated to the NFL


I see no reason why Patterson skills couldnt translate into Harvin's role as a gimmick receiver, being worst case. Patterson developing into an elite slot receiver, as worst case, is not what i was suggesting.

Those receivers were probably forced into something they werent. The Vikings were at least smart to realize they shouldnt do that with Harvin.

This floor/ceiling concept is kind of useless to me anyway. Aaron Curry was once considered the safest prospect in the draft. Having good instincts, being a good route runner and being "polished" at the college level may not translate to the NFL either.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Route running translates better than any WR skill, other than catching, IMO

I'll have to go back to that draft, because I don't remember Curry being called safe. Patterson being, for lack of a better word, dumb makes me want nothing to do with him. Inconsistent hands, and only one year of production in a pass heavy offense also scares me.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
Route running translates better than any WR skill, other than catching, IMO

I'll have to go back to that draft, because I don't remember Curry being called safe. Patterson being, for lack of a better word, dumb makes me want nothing to do with him. Inconsistent hands, and only one year of production in a pass heavy offense also scares me.


Book smarts, sure, Patterson struggled academically. Does that really matter though?

Given that Patterson has elite physical skills, he probably wont be as reliant as someone like Allen on understanding mental elements of the game.

Plus with a vet like Jennings, Patterson stands to gain a lot of veteran knowledge immediately.
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KeystoneViking


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
Route running translates better than any WR skill, other than catching, IMO

I'll have to go back to that draft, because I don't remember Curry being called safe. Patterson being, for lack of a better word, dumb makes me want nothing to do with him. Inconsistent hands, and only one year of production in a pass heavy offense also scares me.


Book smarts, sure, Patterson struggled academically. Does that really matter though?

Given that Patterson has elite physical skills, he probably wont be as reliant as someone like Allen on understanding mental elements of the game.

Plus with a vet like Jennings, Patterson stands to gain a lot of veteran knowledge immediately.


Being able to understand the plays and know where you need to be is kind of a big deal, so yes it does matter.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KeystoneViking wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
Route running translates better than any WR skill, other than catching, IMO

I'll have to go back to that draft, because I don't remember Curry being called safe. Patterson being, for lack of a better word, dumb makes me want nothing to do with him. Inconsistent hands, and only one year of production in a pass heavy offense also scares me.


Book smarts, sure, Patterson struggled academically. Does that really matter though?

Given that Patterson has elite physical skills, he probably wont be as reliant as someone like Allen on understanding mental elements of the game.

Plus with a vet like Jennings, Patterson stands to gain a lot of veteran knowledge immediately.


Being able to understand the plays and know where you need to be is kind of a big deal, so yes it does matter.


What one learns in academia, in addition to being a college athlete, is irrelevant to understanding football by itself as a professional. If Patterson focuses entirely on learning a playbook, he will surely pick it up.

Dan Marino wasnt considered smart either, but he was mentally one of the sharpest QBs of all time.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^there was a report somewhere though that Patterson had to be fed the playbook 1/4 at a time.


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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What VD is referring to is also what I was referring too. It had nothing to do with book smarts.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
^there was a report somewhere though that Patterson had to be fed the playbook 1/4 at a time.


Wouldnt be terribly surprising, since Patterson did have less years than most of his teammates. That is whats hard from transitioning from JUCO to D1. The learning curve is steep and there is very little time when one commits to joining a DI program from the time they leave JUCO. Would one really expect for Patterson to join TN and be given the entire playbook the moment he walked into the door. Of course he was going to gradually be exposed to the playbook over time.

Any rookie WR will slowly be fed the playbook as well, no matter how "polished" they appear to be. Rookie WRs who tend to make a big impact right away tend to rely largely on athleticism at first anyway.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All players are slowly fed the playbook via mini-camps and install periods during training camp. His lack of intelligence is going to put him even further behind the curve.

Receivers that rely solely on athleticism are also the ones that are more likely to be a flash in the pan. I can see Patterson's career having a Devin Hester-esque trajectory, at best he's Percy Harvin. He's someone who will be explosive with the ball in his hands, but the trouble will be getting it there without derailing the offense.

That would be fine, in a second round pick, but you're going to have to draft Patterson higher than that.

As solid as this receiver class is, I don't see any that should go in the top 25 picks.
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arKnaD7


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This situation reminds me of Michael Crabtree.

Injured throughout the draft process, bad timed speed. I think Allen will be the same type of WR as well.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
All players are slowly fed the playbook via mini-camps and install periods during training camp. His lack of intelligence is going to put him even further behind the curve.

Receivers that rely solely on athleticism are also the ones that are more likely to be a flash in the pan. I can see Patterson's career having a Devin Hester-esque trajectory, at best he's Percy Harvin. He's someone who will be explosive with the ball in his hands, but the trouble will be getting it there without derailing the offense.

That would be fine, in a second round pick, but you're going to have to draft Patterson higher than that.

As solid as this receiver class is, I don't see any that should go in the top 25 picks.


Everyone knew Dez Bryant was dumber than a box of hammers, and it shows when the cowboys play.

Yet he still went high, and messes up a lot of routes, Then towards the end of the season he went HAM off he ability along.

Point being, Majority of WRs in the NFL are not very bright. Not always going to get a Jennings, Fitzgerald, or Welker. Some guys will use the mental aspect of the game to make up for what they don't have physically, and vise verse.

I'm personally not impressed with Allen, I think, in this class, WR would be better suited for the second round. I could see Allen, and Hopkins falling hard. Rodgers could be had mid second. I think Rodgers will be a borderline 1st round.
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