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greg007


Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 408
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Dont force it Reply with quote

This is the year of OL, DL, and DB. Grab you one or two at each position and call it a draft. Rome wasn't built in one day or one year. Stop pushing these C grade players to an A. It's like ppl are trying to make something of these players. They will be good in the right system. We don't have a SYSTEM. So grab what you can grab and lets play hard nose football.
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FREDDY T


Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 5345
Location: NY
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: Dont force it Reply with quote

greg007 wrote:
This is the year of OL, DL, and DB. Grab you one or two at each position and call it a draft. Rome wasn't built in one day or one year. Stop pushing these C grade players to an A. It's like ppl are trying to make something of these players. They will be good in the right system. We don't have a SYSTEM. So grab what you can grab and lets play hard nose football.


I like this method alot, however we need to swing till we hit on a QB or else we will never get better.

It will be interesting to see what happens
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JagsFanInNY


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 1389
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Dont force it Reply with quote

FREDDY T wrote:
greg007 wrote:
This is the year of OL, DL, and DB. Grab you one or two at each position and call it a draft. Rome wasn't built in one day or one year. Stop pushing these C grade players to an A. It's like ppl are trying to make something of these players. They will be good in the right system. We don't have a SYSTEM. So grab what you can grab and lets play hard nose football.


I like this method alot, however we need to swing till we hit on a QB or else we will never get better.

It will be interesting to see what happens
swinging is a good idea when the pitch is worth swinging at.
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MoJo122-b-21


Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 6439
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Dont force it Reply with quote

FREDDY T wrote:
greg007 wrote:
This is the year of OL, DL, and DB. Grab you one or two at each position and call it a draft. Rome wasn't built in one day or one year. Stop pushing these C grade players to an A. It's like ppl are trying to make something of these players. They will be good in the right system. We don't have a SYSTEM. So grab what you can grab and lets play hard nose football.


I like this method alot, however we need to swing till we hit on a QB or else we will never get better.

It will be interesting to see what happens


Swing and miss on your quarterback with the second pick and this front office will be lame duck until they're inevitably shown the door.

With what we've seen so far, 2013 will be a lost season. Quarterback classes aren't often this weak and will undoubtedly be much stronger with next year's top five pick. There's no reason to force it this year - save that silliness for general managers with one foot out the door, at least they can justify desperation.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish people would quit making the "desperation" argument. It's disingenuous to the whole process. We won't draft Geno out of desperation. We will draft him if we think he is going to be successful, and only for that reason.

And wait until next year sounds great until we actually get to next year and the class isn't half as good as people are talking it up now. It happens every year. Even last year's "great QB class," people shrugged off everyone except the top two and said "wait next year" instead of drafting Tannehill and Wilson.


Geno isn't even that bad of a prospect. If I'd grading him as a prospect against previous years prospects, this is where I would have him at worst:
#3 in 2012
#2 in 2011 (FF probably would have graded him as #1 with all the hate Cam got)
#1 in 2010
#2 in 2009
#1/2 in 2008 (Grades out as well as Matt Ryan)
#1 in 2007
#2 in 2006
#1 in 2005
#2/3 in 2004 (don't remember enough about how Rivers was graded to bring him above or below for sure)
#2 in 2003


That's the last 10 years. Where are all these QBs that if we're not drafting #1 overall that we can be assured to get?

Geno is only being torn apart as a prospect because he came after last year's class, where two elite prospects came through. Most years you don't get one elite prospect at QB, let alone 2.
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JaguarCrazy2832


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
I wish people would quit making the "desperation" argument. It's disingenuous to the whole process. We won't draft Geno out of desperation. We will draft him if we think he is going to be successful, and only for that reason..


I never thought i'd say it but this guy gets it
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JagsFanInNY


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wish people would quit making the "desperation" argument. It's disingenuous to the whole process. We won't draft Geno out of desperation. We will draft him if we think he is going to be successful, and only for that reason.
Except that is just not true. If you have a guy on your roster who you believe could be successful, then you would not take a QB even if you think he would be successful. Right now there is a guy on the roster who has admittedly put in 2 sub-par years in the NFL, but outside of that is a recent top 10 pick who has the ability to succeed in the NFL. Moving on from a player like that so quickly for a guy like Geno would be some sort of desperation move to just move on and potentially give up too quickly on a talented young player.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JagsFanInNY wrote:
Quote:
I wish people would quit making the "desperation" argument. It's disingenuous to the whole process. We won't draft Geno out of desperation. We will draft him if we think he is going to be successful, and only for that reason.
Except that is just not true. If you have a guy on your roster who you believe could be successful, then you would not take a QB even if you think he would be successful. Right now there is a guy on the roster who has admittedly put in 2 sub-par years in the NFL, but outside of that is a recent top 10 pick who has the ability to succeed in the NFL. Moving on from a player like that so quickly for a guy like Geno would be some sort of desperation move to just move on and potentially give up too quickly on a talented young player.
I'm struggling to see how trusting your evaluation process is desperation. If the evaluation process says that Gabbert needs to be replaced, and that Geno is a strong replacement, you replace him. You don't just let him play because he's young and maybe he'll turn it around if your evaluation of him says that you don't think he will.

Removing age from the equation, the Browns drafting Weeden was a smart move. The Panthers drafting Cam was a smart move. Maybe those incumbents weren't first round picks, but they were as productive as Gabbert has been.
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JagsFanInNY


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
JagsFanInNY wrote:
Quote:
I wish people would quit making the "desperation" argument. It's disingenuous to the whole process. We won't draft Geno out of desperation. We will draft him if we think he is going to be successful, and only for that reason.
Except that is just not true. If you have a guy on your roster who you believe could be successful, then you would not take a QB even if you think he would be successful. Right now there is a guy on the roster who has admittedly put in 2 sub-par years in the NFL, but outside of that is a recent top 10 pick who has the ability to succeed in the NFL. Moving on from a player like that so quickly for a guy like Geno would be some sort of desperation move to just move on and potentially give up too quickly on a talented young player.
I'm struggling to see how trusting your evaluation process is desperation. If the evaluation process says that Gabbert needs to be replaced, and that Geno is a strong replacement, you replace him. You don't just let him play because he's young and maybe he'll turn it around if your evaluation of him says that you don't think he will.

Removing age from the equation, the Browns drafting Weeden was a smart move. The Panthers drafting Cam was a smart move. Maybe those incumbents weren't first round picks, but they were as productive as Gabbert has been.


Everything you said makes sense in some respect but the truth of the matter is that just because there might be a player in the draft who could come in and do better than another guy on the team based on your evaluation, it does not mean you need to grab the guy at #2. Gabbert has been brutal the least two years and I do think it is entirely plausible to think there are numerous guys who evaluations might dictate could come in and do better. However, you could get some of those guys later down, and to grab Geno at 2 simply because he could do better than Gabbert is DESPERATION. Evaluation or not, Gabbert is still only two years removed from being highly regarded as a prospect. No need to reach for a QB in a class where the drop off between the guy they grab at 2 or could get at 33 is likely to be enormous.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JagsFanInNY wrote:
Everything you said makes sense in some respect but the truth of the matter is that just because there might be a player in the draft who could come in and do better than another guy on the team based on your evaluation, it does not mean you need to grab the guy at #2. Gabbert has been brutal the least two years and I do think it is entirely plausible to think there are numerous guys who evaluations might dictate could come in and do better. However, you could get some of those guys later down, and to grab Geno at 2 simply because he could do better than Gabbert is DESPERATION.
And again, we will draft him if we think he is going to be successful, and only for that reason. Drafting a player that you think is going to be good to replace a player that you don't think will be is not desperation. I don't get how you can even think it is.

Quote:
Evaluation or not, Gabbert is still only two years removed from being highly regarded as a prospect.
He's also two years removed from being a prospect that many didn't like coming out, and has done next to nothing to dispel those feelings about him. If Caldwell didn't like Gabbert coming out or doesn't like him now, why should he not trust his evaluation process and instead trust Gene Smith's, who got fired for picks that include Gabbert?

Quote:
No need to reach for a QB in a class where the drop off between the guy they grab at 2 or could get at 33 is likely to be enormous.
I'm confused where you're going with this. This draft isn't top heavy, and is very deep (that old 45 first rounders being thrown around a lot). The only position that there is an assured enormous drop off would be QB. There will be good pass rushers, good corners, good LBs and good non-LT o-linemen aplenty. The drop off from Geno to the next QB is really the only enormous drop off.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every time I read the title I think, No means no... Laughing
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Every time I read the title I think, No means no... Laughing


Geno
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JaguarCrazy2832


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Every time I read the title I think, No means no... Laughing


Geno


But he is 22
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Every time I read the title I think, No means no... Laughing


Geno


But he is 22


Don't force it
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JaguarCrazy2832


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 83726
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Every time I read the title I think, No means no... Laughing


Geno


But he is 22


Don't force it


Laughing AF FTW
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