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FFMD 13 (II) Oakland Raiders War Room
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sundancejoe


Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Washington and Streater had very similar stat lines last year. Streater is ascending while Washington is aging. I wouldn't want Washington taking those reps from Streater while he has a chance to emerge as a legit weapon. We're gonna be able to find some value players in that 6th round.
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Jamethus92


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm willing to do the Nate trade if its a 6th and a 6th next year, meaning the stipulation will have to be dropped.
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DarthDavis


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamethus92 wrote:
I'm willing to do the Nate trade if its a 6th and a 6th next year, meaning the stipulation will have to be dropped.


I think we should keep the 6th and look for a UDFA WR with potential. I like that we have a bunch of young WR's with something to prove. Washington won't develop here and could just take away from the development of our other younger WR"s.
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamethus92 wrote:
I'm willing to do the Nate trade if its a 6th and a 6th next year, meaning the stipulation will have to be dropped.
After speaking to my staff, we have decided that we're willing to do it for just the two sixths. Going to wait for a few more opinions before I could officially agree to that, but it's probably safe to assume that will be the offer.
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DarthDavis


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanDiegoRaiderFan wrote:
DarthDavis wrote:
sundancejoe wrote:
I'd be ok with a trade down. Plenty of guys with similar value. I'm with Darth liking Silver Surfer.


The only reason he is looked over is that minor chip in his surfboard that is going to be plenty healed come training camp. He could have very well been ahead of the other 2 guys that play his position that are valued in the first round from his team.

Are you sure about that? What signs do you see that he is recovering? I was going along with everybody else about this, but the more I read about him the more I worry. 5+ in the 40 at his position? And what position would he play? He's too small to be 4-3 DE; most project him as a 3-4 OLB, but he's poor in coverage so he would be a pass rushing specialist. He'd probably be that in our 4-3 as well. Do we want to use a high 4th on a pass rushing specialist based on what he did two years ago, given that he missed most of last year? Almost every place I go has him as a 6 - 7 round choice, so it looks like a big reach here. He could be there when we pick early in the 6th. Why not play it safe with such a valuable pick and get someone who could help us on the O-line, particularly at OG, such as the Thing.


Glad we went BPA. You are right about the 40 time, but when he was running he was still expressing a lot of pain. Its clear he is much faster watching him play. He fires of the snap and is way too quick for OT's to handle. I think a fully recovered Jenkins would be in the 4.6-4.7 range and that isn't much of a reach. He had a lisfranc injury which is something that is easy to heal from, players come back with out limitations, and would seriously impeded his ability to run. Ya he isn't going to put up 25 reps on the bench but he is as good a pass rusher we can find at this end of the draft. There are some other small school guys so I won't worry if he doesn't last.

Bell would look nasty in S&B. I love the idea of building an offense that can play possession football.
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DarthDavis


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would probably be worth it to look at getting into the 5th round for a guy like Darkwing Duck or Jenkins. Probably Darkwing is more of a need in our roster.

Do any of guys like Darkwing?
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Iceman88


Joined: 27 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans0021 wrote:
Jamethus92 wrote:
I'm willing to do the Nate trade if its a 6th and a 6th next year, meaning the stipulation will have to be dropped.
After speaking to my staff, we have decided that we're willing to do it for just the two sixths. Going to wait for a few more opinions before I could officially agree to that, but it's probably safe to assume that will be the offer.


Any chance of this happening? I know you guys are scared about him taking time away from your young players but he will help them and your young QB. Whether you have Pryor or Flynn you will need a reliable target for them so that they get comfortable in the offense. Nate brings that and good leadership. Honestly we would hold on to him, but with the other players we have he will have reduced playing time and we think he deserves to see the field. You could do a lot worse than a 5th round value for a guy that put up over 1500 yards the past two seasons.
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sundancejoe


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

51-741-7
46-746-4
39-584-3

Pick who is who from the stat lines above. I see very similar production from the three players. Streater has the upside to eclipse any of those next year. Let's not forget Criner who had a few promising moments himself. I'll send you fellas a PM about a guy I'd REALLY like to target with the pick we're talking about sending for Washington.
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sundancejoe wrote:
51-741-7
46-746-4
39-584-3

Pick who is who from the stat lines above. I see very similar production from the three players. Streater has the upside to eclipse any of those next year. Let's not forget Criner who had a few promising moments himself. I'll send you fellas a PM about a guy I'd REALLY like to target with the pick we're talking about sending for Washington.
Well one also played for a team that had 60 fewer completions and passed for a little over 700 fewer yards.

Anyways, I see very similar production from two players. Fewer receptions, fewer yards, fewer touchdowns isn't exactly similar. I get that teams love their picks, but Christo Bilukidi, Richard Gordon, Travis Goethel and Stryker Sulak are the Raiders last four sixth round picks. Nate Washington is almost certainly a starting receiver.

Oh well, the offer stands. Do with it what you will. Laughing
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sundancejoe


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying Washington is a bad player. I'm saying we're a bad team and WR is one position we've got some good, young talent. We need good, young talent to compete at many other positions. This draft isn't loaded at the top like most but is very deep with some interesting guys. I've got a ton of talent still left on the board.
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SanDiegoRaiderFan


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sundancejoe wrote:
I'm not saying Washington is a bad player. I'm saying we're a bad team and WR is one position we've got some good, young talent. We need good, young talent to compete at many other positions. This draft isn't loaded at the top like most but is very deep with some interesting guys. I've got a ton of talent still left on the board.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this sundance. Sure, we could use some good, young talent, but we are talking about the 6th round here. So how good could they be to last this long? Given what we've done here and what Reggie has done in real life, I can't see any position where a 6th rounder is going to start or even compete to start, with the possible exception of TE. So we're basically talking about some depth players, and we're okay depth-wise too at most positions. Those WRs you PM'd were interesting, but they're basically young unproven players who MIGHT be able to play in this league, similar to what we have now in Juron Criner. They'd probably take the 5th WR position behind him, but they're no guarantee to be significant contributors in the future. Here's a chance to get a proven starting caliber WR at worst and possibly a #1 at best. Not only would we get some production from him, but he would help Flynn develop as well and possibly the other WRs too.

Let me point out that we have three 6th round picks, including a comp pick that is untradable. Trading for Washington would still leave us with a couple of picks to add this good talent you're talking about. Based on what you've done, I think we'll do well with the UDFAs too, and we might even be able to get one or both of those WRs you wrote about.
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Jamethus92


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans0021 wrote:

Anyways, I see very similar production from two players. Fewer receptions, fewer yards, fewer touchdowns isn't exactly similar. I get that teams love their picks, but Christo Bilukidi, Richard Gordon, Travis Goethel and Stryker Sulak are the Raiders last four sixth round picks. Nate Washington is almost certainly a starting receiver.

Oh well, the offer stands. Do with it what you will. Laughing


Are you trying to say that those are bad players? Three of them are on the team still and Kidi is expected to take on a large role this year, it seems. So that point kind of works against you.
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Jamethus92


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this? We pick with #172 tomorrow. Depending on what happens and who's there, we decide on the Washington trade then. If we don't get him, I'm not losing any sleep over it. We have bigger holes.

That said, just post your votes for 172.
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamethus92 wrote:
titans0021 wrote:

Anyways, I see very similar production from two players. Fewer receptions, fewer yards, fewer touchdowns isn't exactly similar. I get that teams love their picks, but Christo Bilukidi, Richard Gordon, Travis Goethel and Stryker Sulak are the Raiders last four sixth round picks. Nate Washington is almost certainly a starting receiver.

Oh well, the offer stands. Do with it what you will. Laughing


Are you trying to say that those are bad players? Three of them are on the team still and Kidi is expected to take on a large role this year, it seems. So that point kind of works against you.
I'm saying that Nate Washington will be a starting wide receiver on a team with a young quarterback with no veteran presence amongst the wide outs. Washington isn't a player that would simply be on the roster, he would likely take a larger role immediately.
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sundancejoe


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not the only players we should consider but just the first few that come to mind at positions of need.

Pass Rushers

Joe Kruger-DE-Utah-Giant guy. Great athlete. Solid but unspectacular #s. Made more splash plays than consistent ones. Tremendous upside with good coaching.

David Bass-MWSU-Dominated lower competition with 39 career sacks. Stood out Shrine week.

Michael Buchannon-DE-ILL-Great upside. Needs polishing but great physical tools.

Tight Ends

Dion Sims-TE-MSU-Great blocker and solid receiver. Very similar prospect to Brandon Myers but better body and upside.

Levine Toilolo-TE-Stanford-6'8" balanced tight end overshadowed by the talent at Stanford. Could compete to start immediately and provide solid blocking with a HUGE red zone target.

Joseph Fauria-TE-UCLA-6'7" target with 12 touchdowns last year. Matchup nightmare. Solid pass blocker but not great in the run game.

Offensive Line

Ricky Wagner-OT/OG-WIS-Played tackle in college but could play guard for us. Great technique but gets beat by edge rushers. Not a problem at guard. Could be graded as a top 100 player.

Manase Foketi-OG-WTA&M-Stood out at Kansas State but had to transfer. Big man with some comparisons to Iupati.
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