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Offense vs Defense, In Depth Need and Draft Discussion

 
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Honalulufan20


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 2686
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Offense vs Defense, In Depth Need and Draft Discussion Reply with quote

I didn't have enough characters to make an accurate title for this post, so essentially I'd like opinions based on what positions the Lions should address through the draft and what would take us further as a team.

Case for Offense:
With the addition of Reggie Bush, a dynamic offensive weapon that can hit a homerun on any given play and has great versatility having been added to a potent skill position group that consists of CJ, Burleson, Broyles, Pettigrew, Scheffler, Leshoure. Paired with a QB that has put up prolific numbers in the passing game, the only piece that is keeping this group from being a top 3 offense is the offensive line. Despite the fact that the Lions front office has addressed the line with the addition of Riley Reiff through the draft and appears to be somewhat in the running for Brandon Moore, this is arguably our weakest position on the team. Add into the fact that Peterman was cut and 1,000 year starter Jeff Backus retired and you have a relatively depleted unit.
Opening day roster as it stands-
OT- Rieff, Fox, Hilliard
OG- Sims, Nagy, Gandy
C- Riolia

Free Agent Options that are still available to sign are rather plentiful, with Gaither recently being released by the Chargers and a number of free agents that have starting capability still left up for grabs, a signing (such as Moore, Gaither or a number of other free agents) is a certain possibility.

Draft options-
#5- Joekel, Fisher
Later in first- Warmack, Warford, Johnson
2nd/3rd- Jones, Warford, Long, Thomas
Later- Schwenke, Quesenberry


In any of these scenarios, our line is greatly improved, which should improve our running game and Leshoure and Bush's production as well as Stafford and our receivers, while also improving the longevity of all of the above.

Position that may be the dark horse for a prospect:
Tight end
-No secret that Pettigrew has elbows for hands, could possibly see a receiving tight end be picked here, perhaps one with the speed to also play as a bigger slot guy, like Gavin Escobar.

Defense

With the recent resignings of Delmas, Houston and Levy and the signing of GQ our secondary appears much improved. Returns and gaining of experience of Bentley, Greenwood and Green also adds more talent to this years secondary than last years. However, this aid to the back end came at a cost of our sack leader Cliff Avril, starting line backer Justin Durant, and defensive lineman KVB, SLH and Corey Williams. And despite this great improvement in the secondary, there is still a relatively large whole at the CB position opposite of Chris Houston. The signing of Michigan Native Jason Jones does help with the losses of SLH and Avril, however it does not make up for them. The plus side of Jones is that he is extremely versatile and can play any position on the D-line

Luckily, this years draft class is home to a plethora of talent on the Defensive side of the ball, with two top flight corners in Xavier Rhodes and Dee Milliner. This draft is also home to a ton of high quality players on the defensive line, such as Werner or Dion Jordan at 5, Jones and Mingo later in the first and the intriguing option of Damontre Moore in the early part of the second. Other defensive players such as Marcus Hunt and Shariff Floyd are exceptionally notable players as well.

Roster as it stands:
DE-Young, Lewis, Jones
DT- Suh, Fairley

CB- Houston, Bentley, Greenwood, Green
S- Delmas, Quin, Spievey

Draft Options:
#5- Millner, Werner, Jordan, Ansah, Floyd
Later in first- Rhodes, Mingo, Jones
2nd/3rd - Banks,Taylor, Moore
Later- Jenkins, Mathieu, Rambo

If we addressed the Defensive Line then obviously our pass rush may be improved, however, if Jordan, or a speed end is selected, our run defense may suffer because of it. If we take Floyd (yet another DT) I would at first be frustrated, but with only Fairley and Suh on the roster as starters and only with Jones rotating in and out, who is undersized, a guy like Floyd could make sense, but hopefully that guy is taken in the later rounds, as rotational DT's can be had at almost any point of the draft.
If the position addressed is Corner, we suddenly have an excellent starting secondary, with two good corners on the outsides and good cover safeties back deep. However, Delmas is exceptionally unreliable when it comes to durability, and Spievey has his issues off and on the field, so a safety like Rambo could be picked up in the third or fourth round for depth purposes.

Dark horse position for a prospect:
Outside Linebacker
-With all of the years of seeing the Secondary ignored and with departures such as Avril occurring along the front end of our defense, it can be overlooked that our linebacker spot that is unmanned by Tully and Levy is a huge question mark. If Whitehead, Hogue or Lewis can man that position, or perhaps pre-season cinderella Carmen Messina, adequately, then our front office won't have to address this position at all.


Mock Draft with all of this considered- No Trades

1-Dee Milliner CB Alabama
2- Damontre Moore DE Texas A&M
3- Dallas Thomas G/T Tennessee
4- Brian Schwenke C Cal Berkley
5- Josh Boyce Slot WR TCU
6- Tyrann Mathieu CB/KR LSU
7- Ontario McCaleb HB/KR Auburn

Draft With Trades
Trade #5 down to #11 and pick up an extra 2nd

1- Xavier Rhodes CB FSU
2- DJ Fluker RT Alabama
2- Damontre Moore DE Texas A&M
3- Brandon Williams DT Missouri Southern
4- Brian Schwenke C Cal Berkley
5- Josh Boyce Slot WR/KR TCU
6- Tyrann Mathieu CB/KR LSU
7- Ontario McCaleb HB/KR Auburn
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I'm fine if they ignore needs completely with the draft because our "holes" aren't really gaping holes, and have players with some talent occupying them. I'd like to see some pass rushers, maybe a deep threat whether it be a WR, TE, or RB. A guard or center for the future would be nice too.
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Whiffleballtony


Joined: 18 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want the Lions to accomplish two things. They need to secure our offensive prowess and generate pass rush.

A dominate offense will force other teams to keep up and play into our strengths defensively. We were statistically a great offense last season but I rarely felt we outplayed other teams and made them play our brand of football.

The Lions have added Reggie Bush which should make a huge difference to our offense but I still have concerns. Last season, teams were double and triple teaming Megatron every game yet our other receivers did not seem to be able to capitalize on this. Burleson was having a good year statistically before injury but he seemed to disappear a lot. Broyle flashed talent but I don't know if he can become a #2 or just a dominate slot guy. Either way, I believe despite our investments the Lions need to grab a WR. I know it would not be popular but perhaps even burn a 2nd round pick. I personally am a fan of Justin Hunter.

I also think TE is a concern. The TE position seems to be an tremendously important to our offense. Pettigrew and Scheftler had poor years and have expiring contracts.

The offensive line has some concerns as well. I actually think we are set at OT with Reiff manning the LT spot and Fox and Hillard battling for the RT spot. Sims is set at LG. OC and RG are however a concern. I am not comfortable leaving those spots to Raiola, Nagy, and Austin. A guard could be found in free agency but they are almost all signed. The draft may be the only way to fix that issue.

In regards to pass rush I think we have to address it in the draft. The free agents available that have been productive are past their prime and still likely to receive big pay days. The draft has a ton of different options but they all seem to be boom/bust picks. I am personally in favor of grabbing Ansah, Hunt if available in the 2nd perhaps, or Washington in the 3rd or fourth. Bringing back Jackson would also be wise.

The defense has some other issues but I think we may have to roll with what we have.

We have two 2nd year players in Whitehead and Lewis to battle with Veteran Palmer for one LB spot. It should be mentioned that Palmer has generally performed well when called upon. We have three 2nd year players in Greene, Greenwood, and Bentley to battle with veteran Bartell for the corner back spot as well.
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SuhPLEX


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
Honestly, I'm fine if they ignore needs completely with the draft because our "holes" aren't really gaping holes, and have players with some talent occupying them. I'd like to see some pass rushers, maybe a deep threat whether it be a WR, TE, or RB. A guard or center for the future would be nice too.

I think DE and RG are gaping holes... I'm willing to see what our young talent has for CB, OT and LB but DE and RG don't really have anyone with upside worth giving a starting spot to. Especially with the wide-9 we run, we need quicker DE's and Jason Jones, while versatile, doesn't provide the athleticism to succeed there as a full time starter.

The draft is deep in both those positions though. I'm not worried about it right now.
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IDOG_det wrote:
I honestly wouldn't be upset if we draft 3 TE's

TE is the new QB Very Happy
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skatebeanz


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm losing the want for Milliner TBH.

Seems I'm Ansah or LT at this point. Laughing
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Whiffleballtony


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Draft...Ansah.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatebeanz wrote:
I'm losing the want for Milliner TBH.

Seems I'm Ansah or LT at this point. Laughing


Whiffleballtony wrote:
Draft...Ansah.


Very Happy
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CosaNostra


Joined: 29 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw a mock that had us taking Damontre Moore with our second round pick

If we were to take Ansah and Moore in the first 2 round with Jason Jones coming in when one of the 4 starters needs rest, I think that is a pretty beast defensive line. 3rd round pick would have to be RG/WR/CB though.
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Whiffleballtony


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CosaNostra wrote:
I just saw a mock that had us taking Damontre Moore with our second round pick

If we were to take Ansah and Moore in the first 2 round with Jason Jones coming in when one of the 4 starters needs rest, I think that is a pretty beast defensive line. 3rd round pick would have to be RG/WR/CB though.
I do not want Moore. I think he has the tools to be a very good player despite not showing well in popular tests. He does however seem to have major character issues which makes me not want to spend a 2nd on him...If he free fell to the 3rd I would consider it however.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want any combination of Warmack, Cooper, Frederick, and Warford. Outside of that, I don't give a damn what we do with the rest of the picks.
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DrRay11


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
I want any combination of Warmack, Cooper, Frederick, and Warford. Outside of that, I don't give a damn what we do with the rest of the picks.


That would be stellar. I think Warford goes a lot earlier than some are suggesting (I seem him late 2nd round a lot, I think he's a late 1st early 2nd type).
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CalLionsFan


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm alone here, and I'm NOT trying to start something. But the LB position (as it stands now) is scaring me.

Tulloch and Levy? Fine. And if 1 goes down? Now what?

Palmer is good but IMO not good enough to fill the gap of Durant. Not saying Durant was great, but he started over Palmer for a reason.

Whitehead and Lewis? Maybe. ST players last year so IF they play LB this season..........will be "rookies."

My problem is there isn't a LB in the draft that I feel is even close to a #5 pick. My top 3 are Jordan, Jones and Ogletree. All good but I feel these guys would be a big reach at 5.

Everyone (not literally) really on the DE or OL wagon and I certainly agree those are needs. Along with CB (even though we got 3 last season).
Just for whatever reason, I'm seeing LB as a problem.

Anyone? Comments? Or am I missing something as far as LB?
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see LB as much of a need. All have good experience at MLB if Tulloch goes down (except Whitehead), and really, the majority if the time there will only be 2 out there because teams play the majority if their snaps in a nickel package.
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