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Nice article on Staff, Linehan, and our predictable offense
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detroitroar


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Nice article on Staff, Linehan, and our predictable offense Reply with quote

This is a couple months old, but I havent read this till now, and found it very insightful as to our offensive struggles:



http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/12/03/stafford-suffers-from-shotgun-overload


Quote:

Scott Linehanís offense, though he will mix up some run-pass tendencies, is very predictable. When Stafford sets under center, odds are very high it will be a run, as the Lions did 17 of the 25 times that Stafford took the snap from center against Indianapolis. When Stafford lines up in the shotgun, odds are very high that he is throwing the ball




Quote:

The shotgun can be very useful in 3rd-and-8 situations, but when it comes to quick-hitting routes, the shotgun disrupts the rhythm of a normal route tree and produces a lot of drops

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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the top quote: tendencies based on one game? And only 17 of 25? Considering we were up late, and were trying to run out the clock (4 of our last 5 plays were runs to accomplish this goal), it seems ridiculous to base that argument off of just that game.

Just my quick take on that.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THey didnt nickname him Vanillihan in Stl for no reason
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
From the top quote: tendencies based on one game? And only 17 of 25? Considering we were up late, and were trying to run out the clock (4 of our last 5 plays were runs to accomplish this goal), it seems ridiculous to base that argument off of just that game.

Just my quick take on that.


I agree about the small sample size, but the points about the shotgun effecting timing and taking the QBs eyes off the field are true IMO. I had a lot of complaints about this throughout the year and thought the team was pretty predictable.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
From the top quote: tendencies based on one game? And only 17 of 25? Considering we were up late, and were trying to run out the clock (4 of our last 5 plays were runs to accomplish this goal), it seems ridiculous to base that argument off of just that game.

Just my quick take on that.


I agree about the small sample size, but the points about the shotgun effecting timing and taking the QBs eyes off the field are true IMO. I had a lot of complaints about this throughout the year and thought the team was pretty predictable.

No disagreement there.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, teams typically do run when the QB is under center, unless it's a WCO or something. And teams typically do pass out of the shotgun. I think that our shotgun pass % will lower with the addition of Bush, or at least some of the passes will be screens.

I don't get why people complain over these things though. I mean, our offense isn't based off of smoke and mirrors, it's based on doing what you do and doing it the best you can and with Bush we should be even better. I mean, just how many times do we want to run with Leshoure from the shotgun? I'd say very little, it doesnt suit him (or Bell) well. Besides, I don't hear 49er or Redskins fans complaining because teams know what they're doing when they lineup in pistol. Why? Because it doesn't matter because it works. Being "predictable" doesn't matter if you do your job and have the personel to do the job. With Bush, we should be able to do more things, if our WR's stay healthy, we should be able to more (less predictable) things.
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YlionsY


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sample size is small but I can't disagree.

With Bush, Megatron, and the other players we should see something right?

So much potential and its wasted on part by Linehan.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
Well, teams typically do run when the QB is under center, unless it's a WCO or something. And teams typically do pass out of the shotgun. I think that our shotgun pass % will lower with the addition of Bush, or at least some of the passes will be screens.

I don't get why people complain over these things though. I mean, our offense isn't based off of smoke and mirrors, it's based on doing what you do and doing it the best you can and with Bush we should be even better. I mean, just how many times do we want to run with Leshoure from the shotgun? I'd say very little, it doesnt suit him (or Bell) well. Besides, I don't hear 49er or Redskins fans complaining because teams know what they're doing when they lineup in pistol. Why? Because it doesn't matter because it works. Being "predictable" doesn't matter if you do your job and have the personel to do the job. With Bush, we should be able to do more things, if our WR's stay healthy, we should be able to more (less predictable) things.


No being predictable isn't a good thing. As for running when the QB is under center that's part of the problem. Stafford had consistency and timing issues which are a big part of the shotgun.

They need to improve the line and get Stafford under center more often.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
Well, teams typically do run when the QB is under center, unless it's a WCO or something. And teams typically do pass out of the shotgun. I think that our shotgun pass % will lower with the addition of Bush, or at least some of the passes will be screens.

I don't get why people complain over these things though. I mean, our offense isn't based off of smoke and mirrors, it's based on doing what you do and doing it the best you can and with Bush we should be even better. I mean, just how many times do we want to run with Leshoure from the shotgun? I'd say very little, it doesnt suit him (or Bell) well. Besides, I don't hear 49er or Redskins fans complaining because teams know what they're doing when they lineup in pistol. Why? Because it doesn't matter because it works. Being "predictable" doesn't matter if you do your job and have the personel to do the job. With Bush, we should be able to do more things, if our WR's stay healthy, we should be able to more (less predictable) things.


We are so predictable that opposing defenses can adjust accordingly.

This isn't a good thing. No team is built so well that even with a highly predictable offense they are effective.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Well, teams typically do run when the QB is under center, unless it's a WCO or something. And teams typically do pass out of the shotgun. I think that our shotgun pass % will lower with the addition of Bush, or at least some of the passes will be screens.

I don't get why people complain over these things though. I mean, our offense isn't based off of smoke and mirrors, it's based on doing what you do and doing it the best you can and with Bush we should be even better. I mean, just how many times do we want to run with Leshoure from the shotgun? I'd say very little, it doesnt suit him (or Bell) well. Besides, I don't hear 49er or Redskins fans complaining because teams know what they're doing when they lineup in pistol. Why? Because it doesn't matter because it works. Being "predictable" doesn't matter if you do your job and have the personel to do the job. With Bush, we should be able to do more things, if our WR's stay healthy, we should be able to more (less predictable) things.


No being predictable isn't a good thing. As for running when the QB is under center that's part of the problem. Stafford had consistency and timing issues which are a big part of the shotgun.

They need to improve the line and get Stafford under center more often.
I definitely agree with the bolded.

I also agree that Stafford needs to improve his consistency, but I'm not really sure how much of that, if any, is due to him being lined up in shotgun.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Well, teams typically do run when the QB is under center, unless it's a WCO or something. And teams typically do pass out of the shotgun. I think that our shotgun pass % will lower with the addition of Bush, or at least some of the passes will be screens.

I don't get why people complain over these things though. I mean, our offense isn't based off of smoke and mirrors, it's based on doing what you do and doing it the best you can and with Bush we should be even better. I mean, just how many times do we want to run with Leshoure from the shotgun? I'd say very little, it doesnt suit him (or Bell) well. Besides, I don't hear 49er or Redskins fans complaining because teams know what they're doing when they lineup in pistol. Why? Because it doesn't matter because it works. Being "predictable" doesn't matter if you do your job and have the personel to do the job. With Bush, we should be able to do more things, if our WR's stay healthy, we should be able to more (less predictable) things.


No being predictable isn't a good thing. As for running when the QB is under center that's part of the problem. Stafford had consistency and timing issues which are a big part of the shotgun.

They need to improve the line and get Stafford under center more often.
I definitely agree with the bolded.

I also agree that Stafford needs to improve his consistency, but I'm not really sure how much of that, if any, is due to him being lined up in shotgun.


It's a timing issue as well as breaking the QB' concentration.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YlionsY wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Well, teams typically do run when the QB is under center, unless it's a WCO or something. And teams typically do pass out of the shotgun. I think that our shotgun pass % will lower with the addition of Bush, or at least some of the passes will be screens.

I don't get why people complain over these things though. I mean, our offense isn't based off of smoke and mirrors, it's based on doing what you do and doing it the best you can and with Bush we should be even better. I mean, just how many times do we want to run with Leshoure from the shotgun? I'd say very little, it doesnt suit him (or Bell) well. Besides, I don't hear 49er or Redskins fans complaining because teams know what they're doing when they lineup in pistol. Why? Because it doesn't matter because it works. Being "predictable" doesn't matter if you do your job and have the personel to do the job. With Bush, we should be able to do more things, if our WR's stay healthy, we should be able to more (less predictable) things.


We are so predictable that opposing defenses can adjust accordingly.

This isn't a good thing. No team is built so well that even with a highly predictable offense they are effective.

With how often our execution fails, I can't put the blame on predictability. Fix the execution with either better coaching or better players and then question the scheme.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linehan is painfully predictable. I am an old man in this forum, but I still remember playing countless hours of Madden back in my CMU days. If you play on pro, you could run play action, and hit a WR1 on a post route religiously. Another hot route was the HB swing pass and sprint outside, and the WR2 shallow cross and TE curl plays were favorites too.

Then you play a buddy with the same skill level, and you run your swing pass into a DE staying at home for a 4 yard loss. Your TE curl gets a bit crowded with the MLB in his pocket on the 2nd or 3rd time you run that play. The play action post is gret except if the defense has gotten hip to the act it isn't a real run, and just merely a fake. That is when your QB gets rocked with the ball still in his hand.

My point?

Linehan started most every game trying to run between the tackles. Often doubled down on 2nd with the run early on. 3rd and 7 was time to force feed Pettigrew in coverage and hope he holds on.

How often did you see Detroit effectively use Calvin to set up other players? If they brought in Thomas they would run a slot reverse. If they brought in loan it was a quick pitch outside. If they ran double TR, they usually tried to jam the ball into tight quarters not too r down the field.

How about frying to roll right and hit a whee, route on the left side line? Run twins right with Calvin and Nate. Cross the field shallow with CJ, and have Nate take his route 15 yards deeper forcing the deep safety to choose.

The key to being an offensive coordinator is projecting how a defense will react to a down, distance, and formation set. If the defense loads up left, roll the QB right and throw a cross into the empty space.

Linehan does not manipulate defenses at all. By contrast, teams know how aggressive Suh can be getting up field. They often kill us with delays and counters after Suh gets upfield.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
YlionsY wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Well, teams typically do run when the QB is under center, unless it's a WCO or something. And teams typically do pass out of the shotgun. I think that our shotgun pass % will lower with the addition of Bush, or at least some of the passes will be screens.

I don't get why people complain over these things though. I mean, our offense isn't based off of smoke and mirrors, it's based on doing what you do and doing it the best you can and with Bush we should be even better. I mean, just how many times do we want to run with Leshoure from the shotgun? I'd say very little, it doesnt suit him (or Bell) well. Besides, I don't hear 49er or Redskins fans complaining because teams know what they're doing when they lineup in pistol. Why? Because it doesn't matter because it works. Being "predictable" doesn't matter if you do your job and have the personel to do the job. With Bush, we should be able to do more things, if our WR's stay healthy, we should be able to more (less predictable) things.


We are so predictable that opposing defenses can adjust accordingly.

This isn't a good thing. No team is built so well that even with a highly predictable offense they are effective.

With how often our execution fails, I can't put the blame on predictability. Fix the execution with either better coaching or better players and then question the scheme.


While I agree in part, we would have more success with better execution, a well balanced offense with unpredictable play calling is more effective.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Execution fails because defense ready. I don't know how many times last year my 9 year old called next play. That's hilarious
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