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Raiders officially trade QB Carson Palmer to Cardinals
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AZPSquared


Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
Bloodlustt wrote:
I know everyone here is wanting the next Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers... but realistically that just isn't going to happen. I think Palmer and Stanton is a huge upgrade to our QB situation. Excited!


I agree with most of this; We were not going to find that elite QB and Palmer is a good stop-gap guy.

However I cannot get excited for this team with the demolition job this new front office has done on the defensive side of the football.

Are we going to be better offensively. You better beleive it. Are we going to be much worse defensively, you're darn right we are.


Don't assume the D will be worse just because there was some roster turnover and a new coach. Who knows what Bowles has planned for the D? We know Dockett will play a larger role as a 3-4 1 gap. They probably will also add D players in the draft (possibly pass rusher and safety). They improved the linebackers and defensive line so far through FA, it's just the secondary that took a hit because Rhodes was cut. Toler was coming off injury and hadnt produced for a full season yet plus he is a bit older (he didnt deserve his contract). Also Powers and Cason are both man-man corners (according to Polian, Powers was the only man to man corner on the Colts). If you've ever watched Powers play, you'd know that because he is tough at the LOS (especially for his size), and agile to keep stride with the receivers.
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AZPSquared


Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LuckyNumber11 wrote:
khodder wrote:
Bloodlustt wrote:
I know everyone here is wanting the next Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers... but realistically that just isn't going to happen. I think Palmer and Stanton is a huge upgrade to our QB situation. Excited!


I agree with most of this; We were not going to find that elite QB and Palmer is a good stop-gap guy.

However I cannot get excited for this team with the demolition job this new front office has done on the defensive side of the football.

Are we going to be better offensively. You better beleive it. Are we going to be much worse defensively, you're darn right we are.


I think we are going to be worse but not much worse. All I think we have lost and haven't replaced is Ray Horton (Who knows, maybe Bowles is Great as well) and Kerry Rhodes. Outside of the secondary it's virtually the same defense. (Once again outside of Horton) and I beleive at corner we have improved. I am very excited about Powers coming in and Cason is a good option as well.

I just feel there is a lot of negativity around what we've done this offseason. With a new regime you have to expect some changes. I don't like all of it either but I think you and everyone has been a little over exaggerating how much worse our defense is going to be this year.


Completely agree. They have made some really nice signings: Brinkley, Alexander, Shaughnessy, Rucker, Cason, Powers, Bell. None of these signings are flashy, but all are solid players.
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apollo14000


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
LuckyNumber11 wrote:
khodder wrote:
Bloodlustt wrote:
I know everyone here is wanting the next Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers... but realistically that just isn't going to happen. I think Palmer and Stanton is a huge upgrade to our QB situation. Excited!


I agree with most of this; We were not going to find that elite QB and Palmer is a good stop-gap guy.

However I cannot get excited for this team with the demolition job this new front office has done on the defensive side of the football.

Are we going to be better offensively. You better beleive it. Are we going to be much worse defensively, you're darn right we are.


I think we are going to be worse but not much worse. All I think we have lost and haven't replaced is Ray Horton (Who knows, maybe Bowles is Great as well) and Kerry Rhodes. Outside of the secondary it's virtually the same defense. (Once again outside of Horton) and I beleive at corner we have improved. I am very excited about Powers coming in and Cason is a good option as well.

I just feel there is a lot of negativity around what we've done this offseason. With a new regime you have to expect some changes. I don't like all of it either but I think you and everyone has been a little over exaggerating how much worse our defense is going to be this year.


Completely agree. They have made some really nice signings: Brinkley, Alexander, Shaughnessy, Rucker, Cason, Powers, Bell. None of these signings are flashy, but all are solid players.


Count me as an optimist as well. Our front 7 depth is better than last year plus Dockett should be in a more suitable role in this defense. Bell arguably played better than Wilson last season. I don't want him to be a starter but he's an underrated addition that should give us the equivalent to what Lenon provided us recently. PP, Powers, Cason, and Fleming, maybe it's a little worse than last year but not by much. I don't like Rhodes leaving and I'm not sold on Bowles but we still have 3 superstars on our defense (PP, Campbell, and D-Wash) and good depth at almost every position. I think we'll be at least solid and we're a safety and a pass rusher away from being very very good.
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
LuckyNumber11 wrote:
khodder wrote:
Bloodlustt wrote:
I know everyone here is wanting the next Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers... but realistically that just isn't going to happen. I think Palmer and Stanton is a huge upgrade to our QB situation. Excited!


I agree with most of this; We were not going to find that elite QB and Palmer is a good stop-gap guy.

However I cannot get excited for this team with the demolition job this new front office has done on the defensive side of the football.

Are we going to be better offensively. You better beleive it. Are we going to be much worse defensively, you're darn right we are.


I think we are going to be worse but not much worse. All I think we have lost and haven't replaced is Ray Horton (Who knows, maybe Bowles is Great as well) and Kerry Rhodes. Outside of the secondary it's virtually the same defense. (Once again outside of Horton) and I beleive at corner we have improved. I am very excited about Powers coming in and Cason is a good option as well.

I just feel there is a lot of negativity around what we've done this offseason. With a new regime you have to expect some changes. I don't like all of it either but I think you and everyone has been a little over exaggerating how much worse our defense is going to be this year.


Completely agree. They have made some really nice signings: Brinkley, Alexander, Shaughnessy, Rucker, Cason, Powers, Bell. None of these signings are flashy, but all are solid players.


Count me as an optimist as well. Our front 7 depth is better than last year plus Dockett should be in a more suitable role in this defense. Bell arguably played better than Wilson last season. I don't want him to be a starter but he's an underrated addition that should give us the equivalent to what Lenon provided us recently. PP, Powers, Cason, and Fleming, maybe it's a little worse than last year but not by much. I don't like Rhodes leaving and I'm not sold on Bowles but we still have 3 superstars on our defense (PP, Campbell, and D-Wash) and good depth at almost every position. I think we'll be at least solid and we're a safety and a pass rusher away from being very very good.


I think the corners will be better this season. The only kind of question marks for me is safety and OLB. I like the Bell signing and Rashad re-signing, but I think they should add one in the draft. A pass rusher is a must too (they didnt generate enough pressure from the outside last season). I also believe that this team will be more motivated. BA is a great motivator and from what i hear, players love playing for him.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
CP has concentration & motivation issues. I think he'll be a clear upgrade but those meltdown games will come. I was a fan of the Stanton tank job route but NFL teams don't think like us fans. They need to win and fill seats.


What is this based on?


Oh I dunno, quitting on your team?
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
Don't assume the D will be worse just because there was some roster turnover and a new coach. Who knows what Bowles has planned for the D? We know Dockett will play a larger role as a 3-4 1 gap. They probably will also add D players in the draft (possibly pass rusher and safety). They improved the linebackers and defensive line so far through FA, it's just the secondary that took a hit because Rhodes was cut. Toler was coming off injury and hadnt produced for a full season yet plus he is a bit older (he didnt deserve his contract). Also Powers and Cason are both man-man corners (according to Polian, Powers was the only man to man corner on the Colts). If you've ever watched Powers play, you'd know that because he is tough at the LOS (especially for his size), and agile to keep stride with the receivers.


1 - It is not just becasue of roster turnover and the loss of the coach. It is failure to adequate replace the guys that have been lost and the expected drop from a top 3 defensive mind the NFL to a middle of the road (Average) one (estimate)

2 - We have cut or lsot four-fifths of the starting secondary from last season. We have repalced one of those adequately (Powers for Gay). We have yet to adequately replace either safety or Greg Toler (of which Cason is a far inferior player)

3 - Toler certainly deserved his contract, I was just hoping we could keep him here for less than market value based on his age and injuries.

4 - I don't see Powers being a successful man corner, I did not see it in the games of Indy I have watched and I don't see that changing here. He is physical, he is agile, but he does not have the footspeed to stay with faster receivers. To me Powers is William Gay.

5 - Dockett playing a larger role in a 1 gap does not mean success for this defense. This defense got significantly better as a unit when we moved to a more two gap based front three, but Dockett cannot put team ahead of himself and moaned.

6 - I don't see how they have improve the LB's they bought in some bodies, but the unit as a whole is about status quo, We did lose are best pass rusher from 2012 (Groves), but he was a spot player. The move from Lenon to Brinkley is a boon to the running game, but we lose a lot in coverage. Outside of that Alexander is a complete unknown who is going to be a backup pass rusher most likely.

7 - The defensive line has not really improved at all; We still have the same starting three, but we lost two very experienced backups on the DL in Eason and Holliday who performed very well in their time on the field, Vonnie in particular. We bought in Shaughnessy and Rucker, neither of whom have any experience on the DL in a 3-4 defense, there will be a growing process there.

8 - Yes we will add bodies in the draft, but realisitically how much can we expect a rookie to impact on the defense year one. There are a few starters in the draft, but no real instant impact guys that are going to help us.

Quote:
Completely agree. They have made some really nice signings: Brinkley, Alexander, Shaughnessy, Rucker, Cason, Powers, Bell. None of these signings are flashy, but all are solid players.


Brinkley - Upgrade vs Lenon on the ground, not so much in coverage.
Alexander - Unknown, backup pass rusher and ST'er
Shaughnessy - Never played in a 34
Rucker - Never played in a 34
Cason - Man to Man corner who gets lost in coverage too often and makes too many mental errors in zone coverage.
Powers - Zone Corner with some ability to play Man, but not a lot. Basically William Gay v 2.0
Bell - Aging in the box LB, will play on teams, might backup Johnson at SS. Might be forced to start at SS

None of them are flashy, some of them are solid, some are depth and st'ers only.

Compare their skillsets to the guys they are replacing; Lenon, Groves, Holiday, Eason, Toler, Gay, Wilson, Rhodes and it becomes quite apparanen that there is a clear defecit of talent there.

I know we got younger on the DL, and long term the move is nice, but there will be growing pains early.

Quote:
Count me as an optimist as well. Our front 7 depth is better than last year plus Dockett should be in a more suitable role in this defense. Bell arguably played better than Wilson last season. I don't want him to be a starter but he's an underrated addition that should give us the equivalent to what Lenon provided us recently. PP, Powers, Cason, and Fleming, maybe it's a little worse than last year but not by much. I don't like Rhodes leaving and I'm not sold on Bowles but we still have 3 superstars on our defense (PP, Campbell, and D-Wash) and good depth at almost every position. I think we'll be at least solid and we're a safety and a pass rusher away from being very very good.


1 - Front 7 depth better, not so sure, younger yeah, better not so sure.
2 - Dockett will be in a more suitable role, but both Campbell and Williams will be in less suitable roles. Washington will have to sift through a lot more traffic, playing away from his strengths.
3 - Bell was not arguably better than Wilson last season. Well, it all depends what you want. We all know that Wilson struggled in coverage at times last season, but he is still far superior to Bell in that aspect.
4 - He should provide a veteran who knows the defense, that is the value of Bell.
5 - PP/Powers/Cason/Fleming is a lot worse than last season. The only benefit for this group is that for half of last season we were without Toler (Clearly the second best CB of this group) and Fleming ended the season in the doghouse. Powers is the same guy as Gay, Cason is ingerior to Toler by a significant margin. Toler>Powers=Gay>Cason.
6 - Where is out depth at LB, Where is our depth at S. To say we have good depth at every position is incorrect.
7 - We still do have three superstars, but for two of them a 1 gap from seven is playing away from their strengths, and the third was a guy who benefitted hugely from Ray Horton's confidence in his ability as a "deion" corner.

However far and away the biggest loss for this defense is Horton. I am a firm beleiver of Talent>Scheme on Offense (Put the talent on the field, they will make plays) and Scheme>Talent on defense (Use your ability to move presnap to create chances for yourself, scheme to force the ball where you want it to go)

Individuals can stand out on offense. Defense is a team game.

Losing Horton and moving to Bowles you lose arguably the best defensive schemer in the NFL and arguably the best defnesive playcaller in the NFL.

When you combine a great scheme with great playcalling you end up with a great situational defense. You end up with a defensive that is great on third downs and great in the redzone.

I expect us to fall off significantly on third downs and in the redzone in 2013. Leads to longer drives against us, and more points given up.
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AZPSquared


Joined: 17 Oct 2012
Posts: 1416
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
Don't assume the D will be worse just because there was some roster turnover and a new coach. Who knows what Bowles has planned for the D? We know Dockett will play a larger role as a 3-4 1 gap. They probably will also add D players in the draft (possibly pass rusher and safety). They improved the linebackers and defensive line so far through FA, it's just the secondary that took a hit because Rhodes was cut. Toler was coming off injury and hadnt produced for a full season yet plus he is a bit older (he didnt deserve his contract). Also Powers and Cason are both man-man corners (according to Polian, Powers was the only man to man corner on the Colts). If you've ever watched Powers play, you'd know that because he is tough at the LOS (especially for his size), and agile to keep stride with the receivers.


1 - It is not just becasue of roster turnover and the loss of the coach. It is failure to adequate replace the guys that have been lost and the expected drop from a top 3 defensive mind the NFL to a middle of the road (Average) one (estimate)

2 - We have cut or lsot four-fifths of the starting secondary from last season. We have repalced one of those adequately (Powers for Gay). We have yet to adequately replace either safety or Greg Toler (of which Cason is a far inferior player)

3 - Toler certainly deserved his contract, I was just hoping we could keep him here for less than market value based on his age and injuries.

4 - I don't see Powers being a successful man corner, I did not see it in the games of Indy I have watched and I don't see that changing here. He is physical, he is agile, but he does not have the footspeed to stay with faster receivers. To me Powers is William Gay.

5 - Dockett playing a larger role in a 1 gap does not mean success for this defense. This defense got significantly better as a unit when we moved to a more two gap based front three, but Dockett cannot put team ahead of himself and moaned.

6 - I don't see how they have improve the LB's they bought in some bodies, but the unit as a whole is about status quo, We did lose are best pass rusher from 2012 (Groves), but he was a spot player. The move from Lenon to Brinkley is a boon to the running game, but we lose a lot in coverage. Outside of that Alexander is a complete unknown who is going to be a backup pass rusher most likely.

7 - The defensive line has not really improved at all; We still have the same starting three, but we lost two very experienced backups on the DL in Eason and Holliday who performed very well in their time on the field, Vonnie in particular. We bought in Shaughnessy and Rucker, neither of whom have any experience on the DL in a 3-4 defense, there will be a growing process there.

8 - Yes we will add bodies in the draft, but realisitically how much can we expect a rookie to impact on the defense year one. There are a few starters in the draft, but no real instant impact guys that are going to help us.

Quote:
Completely agree. They have made some really nice signings: Brinkley, Alexander, Shaughnessy, Rucker, Cason, Powers, Bell. None of these signings are flashy, but all are solid players.


Brinkley - Upgrade vs Lenon on the ground, not so much in coverage.
Alexander - Unknown, backup pass rusher and ST'er
Shaughnessy - Never played in a 34
Rucker - Never played in a 34
Cason - Man to Man corner who gets lost in coverage too often and makes too many mental errors in zone coverage.
Powers - Zone Corner with some ability to play Man, but not a lot. Basically William Gay v 2.0
Bell - Aging in the box LB, will play on teams, might backup Johnson at SS. Might be forced to start at SS

None of them are flashy, some of them are solid, some are depth and st'ers only.

Compare their skillsets to the guys they are replacing; Lenon, Groves, Holiday, Eason, Toler, Gay, Wilson, Rhodes and it becomes quite apparanen that there is a clear defecit of talent there.

I know we got younger on the DL, and long term the move is nice, but there will be growing pains early.

Quote:
Count me as an optimist as well. Our front 7 depth is better than last year plus Dockett should be in a more suitable role in this defense. Bell arguably played better than Wilson last season. I don't want him to be a starter but he's an underrated addition that should give us the equivalent to what Lenon provided us recently. PP, Powers, Cason, and Fleming, maybe it's a little worse than last year but not by much. I don't like Rhodes leaving and I'm not sold on Bowles but we still have 3 superstars on our defense (PP, Campbell, and D-Wash) and good depth at almost every position. I think we'll be at least solid and we're a safety and a pass rusher away from being very very good.


1 - Front 7 depth better, not so sure, younger yeah, better not so sure.
2 - Dockett will be in a more suitable role, but both Campbell and Williams will be in less suitable roles. Washington will have to sift through a lot more traffic, playing away from his strengths.
3 - Bell was not arguably better than Wilson last season. Well, it all depends what you want. We all know that Wilson struggled in coverage at times last season, but he is still far superior to Bell in that aspect.
4 - He should provide a veteran who knows the defense, that is the value of Bell.
5 - PP/Powers/Cason/Fleming is a lot worse than last season. The only benefit for this group is that for half of last season we were without Toler (Clearly the second best CB of this group) and Fleming ended the season in the doghouse. Powers is the same guy as Gay, Cason is ingerior to Toler by a significant margin. Toler>Powers=Gay>Cason.
6 - Where is out depth at LB, Where is our depth at S. To say we have good depth at every position is incorrect.
7 - We still do have three superstars, but for two of them a 1 gap from seven is playing away from their strengths, and the third was a guy who benefitted hugely from Ray Horton's confidence in his ability as a "deion" corner.

However far and away the biggest loss for this defense is Horton. I am a firm beleiver of Talent>Scheme on Offense (Put the talent on the field, they will make plays) and Scheme>Talent on defense (Use your ability to move presnap to create chances for yourself, scheme to force the ball where you want it to go)

Individuals can stand out on offense. Defense is a team game.

Losing Horton and moving to Bowles you lose arguably the best defensive schemer in the NFL and arguably the best defnesive playcaller in the NFL.

When you combine a great scheme with great playcalling you end up with a great situational defense. You end up with a defensive that is great on third downs and great in the redzone.

I expect us to fall off significantly on third downs and in the redzone in 2013. Leads to longer drives against us, and more points given up.


I'm gonna wait and let their play dictate my opinion, but personally i am optimistic. Also, it wasnt Horton's confidence in PP that greatly benefited him. PP is an athletic freak who has had the ability and confidence since college. He was one of the safest and best picks in the draft
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
I'm gonna wait and let their play dictate my opinion, but personally i am optimistic. Also, it wasnt Horton's confidence in PP that greatly benefited him. PP is an athletic freak who has had the ability and confidence since college. He was one of the safest and best picks in the draft


Fair enough; PP is a tremendous player, but Horton also used him in a way that really emphasized his abilities.
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apollo14000


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
CP has concentration & motivation issues. I think he'll be a clear upgrade but those meltdown games will come. I was a fan of the Stanton tank job route but NFL teams don't think like us fans. They need to win and fill seats.


What is this based on?


Oh I dunno, quitting on your team?


I don't see how that equates to concentration and motivation issues. When you question a person's concentration and motivation you are questioning their focus and work ethic. Palmer, by all accounts, has the drive to win and has a very strong work ethic. I suppose you could question the loyalty he has to his team, but then you'd have to question the loyalty all 32 teams have towards their players. It's a business and you have to do what it takes to win. If teams can use that excuse then Palmer should be able to as well.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
CP has concentration & motivation issues. I think he'll be a clear upgrade but those meltdown games will come. I was a fan of the Stanton tank job route but NFL teams don't think like us fans. They need to win and fill seats.


What is this based on?


Oh I dunno, quitting on your team?


I don't see how that equates to concentration and motivation issues. When you question a person's concentration and motivation you are questioning their focus and work ethic. Palmer, by all accounts, has the drive to win and has a very strong work ethic. I suppose you could question the loyalty he has to his team, but then you'd have to question the loyalty all 32 teams have towards their players. It's a business and you have to do what it takes to win. If teams can use that excuse then Palmer should be able to as well.


Having one of the most talented RB's in the league that only plays 20% of the time didn't help Palmer.
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younggun1273


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a problem with this trade really. We gave up very little overall and we have a starter at QB. At best this team is middling with Carson, which I think is better than we could say for Drew Stanton.
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apollo14000


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright I just went through all of Carson's throws in the 2012 season. I don't have the time to do a full write up so I'll just throw some stuff out there.

Out of Palmer's 14 interceptions in 2012, 9 were actually a result of bad decision making and/or bad throws.

The other 5 interceptions:
Week 3: Moore fell slipped on his route as Palmer threw the ball
Week 8: Great throw but WR didn't locate the ball. Could have easily jumped up and gotten it.
Week 10: Tipped pass by a defensive lineman. Not much you can do there.
Week 11: Meyers deflected what would have been a great throw and TD and DB intercepted it
Week 12: Dropped pass by Reese, deflected for an interception. Was a good throw

Another interception in week 2 was a garbage time, end of the game bad pass but his team was down by like 40 points already.

So really 8 of his interceptions were passes that were crucial mistakes.

Another note. In 2012, Palmer threw more picture-perfect passes then I've seen a Cardinals QB throw over the last 3 years combined. Additionally, he really didn't get much help from his receivers in terms of catching the difficult throws. They did well to get open but I can't recall a many inaccurate throws by Palmer that his receivers turned into a brilliant catch. His best receiver (Moore) is good at getting open but 95% of his catches were right on the money. He didn't have receivers like Fitz and Floyd that could make those tough catches.

He's a statue in the pocket but not to the extent that you'd expect. He doesn't go down too easily and makes a lot of quick decisions/throws when pressured. He's tougher than I thought. Took a lot of big hits and didn't waiver. He's definitely still got the accurate long ball too. I'm excited to see how that changes our offense from what we've seen in recent years.
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LuckyNumber11


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
Alright I just went through all of Carson's throws in the 2012 season. I don't have the time to do a full write up so I'll just throw some stuff out there.

Out of Palmer's 14 interceptions in 2012, 9 were actually a result of bad decision making and/or bad throws.

The other 5 interceptions:
Week 3: Moore fell slipped on his route as Palmer threw the ball
Week 8: Great throw but WR didn't locate the ball. Could have easily jumped up and gotten it.
Week 10: Tipped pass by a defensive lineman. Not much you can do there.
Week 11: Meyers deflected what would have been a great throw and TD and DB intercepted it
Week 12: Dropped pass by Reese, deflected for an interception. Was a good throw

Another interception in week 2 was a garbage time, end of the game bad pass but his team was down by like 40 points already.

So really 8 of his interceptions were passes that were crucial mistakes.

Another note. In 2012, Palmer threw more picture-perfect passes then I've seen a Cardinals QB throw over the last 3 years combined. Additionally, he really didn't get much help from his receivers in terms of catching the difficult throws. They did well to get open but I can't recall a many inaccurate throws by Palmer that his receivers turned into a brilliant catch. His best receiver (Moore) is good at getting open but 95% of his catches were right on the money. He didn't have receivers like Fitz and Floyd that could make those tough catches.

He's a statue in the pocket but not to the extent that you'd expect. He doesn't go down too easily and makes a lot of quick decisions/throws when pressured. He's tougher than I thought. Took a lot of big hits and didn't waiver. He's definitely still got the accurate long ball too. I'm excited to see how that changes our offense from what we've seen in recent years.


This is what I thought Arians fell in love with him about. Big play ability and can live through taking hits. Two things that would be great for his offense
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LuckyNumber11 wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Alright I just went through all of Carson's throws in the 2012 season. I don't have the time to do a full write up so I'll just throw some stuff out there.

Out of Palmer's 14 interceptions in 2012, 9 were actually a result of bad decision making and/or bad throws.

The other 5 interceptions:
Week 3: Moore fell slipped on his route as Palmer threw the ball
Week 8: Great throw but WR didn't locate the ball. Could have easily jumped up and gotten it.
Week 10: Tipped pass by a defensive lineman. Not much you can do there.
Week 11: Meyers deflected what would have been a great throw and TD and DB intercepted it
Week 12: Dropped pass by Reese, deflected for an interception. Was a good throw

Another interception in week 2 was a garbage time, end of the game bad pass but his team was down by like 40 points already.

So really 8 of his interceptions were passes that were crucial mistakes.

Another note. In 2012, Palmer threw more picture-perfect passes then I've seen a Cardinals QB throw over the last 3 years combined. Additionally, he really didn't get much help from his receivers in terms of catching the difficult throws. They did well to get open but I can't recall a many inaccurate throws by Palmer that his receivers turned into a brilliant catch. His best receiver (Moore) is good at getting open but 95% of his catches were right on the money. He didn't have receivers like Fitz and Floyd that could make those tough catches.

He's a statue in the pocket but not to the extent that you'd expect. He doesn't go down too easily and makes a lot of quick decisions/throws when pressured. He's tougher than I thought. Took a lot of big hits and didn't waiver. He's definitely still got the accurate long ball too. I'm excited to see how that changes our offense from what we've seen in recent years.


This is what I thought Arians fell in love with him about. Big play ability and can live through taking hits. Two things that would be great for his offense


Also two of Kolb's biggest detriments. Couldn't stay healthy and couldn't stretch the field.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
Alright I just went through all of Carson's throws in the 2012 season. I don't have the time to do a full write up so I'll just throw some stuff out there.

Out of Palmer's 14 interceptions in 2012, 9 were actually a result of bad decision making and/or bad throws.

The other 5 interceptions:
Week 3: Moore fell slipped on his route as Palmer threw the ball
Week 8: Great throw but WR didn't locate the ball. Could have easily jumped up and gotten it.
Week 10: Tipped pass by a defensive lineman. Not much you can do there.
Week 11: Meyers deflected what would have been a great throw and TD and DB intercepted it
Week 12: Dropped pass by Reese, deflected for an interception. Was a good throw

Another interception in week 2 was a garbage time, end of the game bad pass but his team was down by like 40 points already.

So really 8 of his interceptions were passes that were crucial mistakes.

Another note. In 2012, Palmer threw more picture-perfect passes then I've seen a Cardinals QB throw over the last 3 years combined. Additionally, he really didn't get much help from his receivers in terms of catching the difficult throws. They did well to get open but I can't recall a many inaccurate throws by Palmer that his receivers turned into a brilliant catch. His best receiver (Moore) is good at getting open but 95% of his catches were right on the money. He didn't have receivers like Fitz and Floyd that could make those tough catches.

He's a statue in the pocket but not to the extent that you'd expect. He doesn't go down too easily and makes a lot of quick decisions/throws when pressured. He's tougher than I thought. Took a lot of big hits and didn't waiver. He's definitely still got the accurate long ball too. I'm excited to see how that changes our offense from what we've seen in recent years.


How many times was a throw he made dropped by a defender? I only ask because he led the league in 2011 with 9 despite starting just 9 games.
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