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Raiders officially trade QB Carson Palmer to Cardinals
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4487
Location: PA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Alright I just went through all of Carson's throws in the 2012 season. I don't have the time to do a full write up so I'll just throw some stuff out there.

Out of Palmer's 14 interceptions in 2012, 9 were actually a result of bad decision making and/or bad throws.

The other 5 interceptions:
Week 3: Moore fell slipped on his route as Palmer threw the ball
Week 8: Great throw but WR didn't locate the ball. Could have easily jumped up and gotten it.
Week 10: Tipped pass by a defensive lineman. Not much you can do there.
Week 11: Meyers deflected what would have been a great throw and TD and DB intercepted it
Week 12: Dropped pass by Reese, deflected for an interception. Was a good throw

Another interception in week 2 was a garbage time, end of the game bad pass but his team was down by like 40 points already.

So really 8 of his interceptions were passes that were crucial mistakes.

Another note. In 2012, Palmer threw more picture-perfect passes then I've seen a Cardinals QB throw over the last 3 years combined. Additionally, he really didn't get much help from his receivers in terms of catching the difficult throws. They did well to get open but I can't recall a many inaccurate throws by Palmer that his receivers turned into a brilliant catch. His best receiver (Moore) is good at getting open but 95% of his catches were right on the money. He didn't have receivers like Fitz and Floyd that could make those tough catches.

He's a statue in the pocket but not to the extent that you'd expect. He doesn't go down too easily and makes a lot of quick decisions/throws when pressured. He's tougher than I thought. Took a lot of big hits and didn't waiver. He's definitely still got the accurate long ball too. I'm excited to see how that changes our offense from what we've seen in recent years.


How many times was a throw he made dropped by a defender? I only ask because he led the league in 2011 with 9 despite starting just 9 games.


Without watching the throws of every other QB in the league I'd assume roughly the same amount as any other QB last year.

He also didn't play or practice in the preseason or the first half of the season in 2011, got traded to the Raiders, and without much practice or time with the playbook was thrown into the starting job immediately. It's tough to perform your best under those circumstances don't you think? I think 2012 Palmer is more indicative of what to expect out of Palmer since he had a full off season with Oakland just like he'll have here.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
Alright I just went through all of Carson's throws in the 2012 season. I don't have the time to do a full write up so I'll just throw some stuff out there.

Out of Palmer's 14 interceptions in 2012, 9 were actually a result of bad decision making and/or bad throws.

The other 5 interceptions:
Week 3: Moore fell slipped on his route as Palmer threw the ball
Week 8: Great throw but WR didn't locate the ball. Could have easily jumped up and gotten it.
Week 10: Tipped pass by a defensive lineman. Not much you can do there.
Week 11: Meyers deflected what would have been a great throw and TD and DB intercepted it
Week 12: Dropped pass by Reese, deflected for an interception. Was a good throw

Another interception in week 2 was a garbage time, end of the game bad pass but his team was down by like 40 points already.

So really 8 of his interceptions were passes that were crucial mistakes.

Another note. In 2012, Palmer threw more picture-perfect passes then I've seen a Cardinals QB throw over the last 3 years combined. Additionally, he really didn't get much help from his receivers in terms of catching the difficult throws. They did well to get open but I can't recall a many inaccurate throws by Palmer that his receivers turned into a brilliant catch. His best receiver (Moore) is good at getting open but 95% of his catches were right on the money. He didn't have receivers like Fitz and Floyd that could make those tough catches.

He's a statue in the pocket but not to the extent that you'd expect. He doesn't go down too easily and makes a lot of quick decisions/throws when pressured. He's tougher than I thought. Took a lot of big hits and didn't waiver. He's definitely still got the accurate long ball too. I'm excited to see how that changes our offense from what we've seen in recent years.


Thats a pretty good assessment IMO.

I think you guys will be happy with Carson Palmer, still has a lot of zip on his ball and makes big throws. He will occasionally air it out when he should be more conservative and give up a big interception though, he definatley has a gun slinger mentality. He has at least a couple years left in the tank before you need to look for the QBoTF.

Before being too harsh on Palmer though, we should consider that in 2012 we had a totally incompetent OC in Greg Knapp, changed to a zone blocking scheme which resulted in very little running game (our O became so predicatable, stretch run right for 1 yard on 1st down, draw play on 2nd for 0 gain, 3rd and long over to you Carson!), our pass protection suffered also and our D couldn't hold anyone below 30 points. Carson made the best of a very poor situation.

Also, reading through a few of your posts i think you're overrating our WRs a bit last year. Rod Streater (Rod who) an UDFA was our most reliable target, Moore had a bit of a down year and struggled at times, Ford was injured all year and DHB is certainly not a deep threat, cannot track the ball and only catches with his body which make him only useful on short slants and comebacks. Myers did well generally but made some very costly drops. Marcel Reece was hardly used for some inexplicable reason. The key for you guys will be protecting your new QB, if you can upgrade your OL, with some decent weapons and Fitz and a good defence Carson should be able to pull some games out of the bag for you.

It would be great if you guys can rain on the 49ers parade. Hopefully, this trade will work out well as I always have a soft spot for the Cards Very Happy
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
Without watching the throws of every other QB in the league I'd assume roughly the same amount as any other QB last year.

He also didn't play or practice in the preseason or the first half of the season in 2011, got traded to the Raiders, and without much practice or time with the playbook was thrown into the starting job immediately. It's tough to perform your best under those circumstances don't you think? I think 2012 Palmer is more indicative of what to expect out of Palmer since he had a full off season with Oakland just like he'll have here.


If his high number of "dropped" interceptions was not a trend I would not have asked. Ranked #1 in the league despite just 9 games in 2011, he was second equal through week fourteen in 2010.

I have not seen the 2012 numbers from FO yet, so I asked.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palmer Contract is as such;

3 yr/30M, 6M signing Bonus, 10M guaranteed.

1 - 2M g'teed salary, 2M bonus proration
2 - 2M g'teed salary, 2M bonus proration, 6M salary
3 - (Option Year) 10M salary, 2M bonus proration

4M in incentives over I assume the life of the deal.

At this stage looks like it will cost us 4-6M in dead money if Carson is cut after year one depending on how guaranteed salary is counted for dead money purposes. I think we take a 4M hit, but not sure.

Darren Urban and Joel Corry (Former Agent, NFL Cap guru) both think it is 6M.

Personally I don't see how having to take a $6M dead money hit is a "cheap" out in year two.
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iRobot


Joined: 17 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khodder,

RE: Contract

Reflected here - http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/carson-palmer/.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my favorite version = http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Carson%20Palmer&Position=QB&Team=Cardinals
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khodder


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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iRobot wrote:
Khodder,

RE: Contract

Reflected here - http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/carson-palmer/.


Ha, that was blank when I checked this morning and then went on a hunt for the details.
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am tired and the wife has given me the dreaded man flu before winter starts, but if signing bonus is 6 mil, then cut after one year, then 4 mil remains.

unless they have changed addition and subtraction since yesterday.

Edit: 2 mil of base is guaranteed in 2014, hence the 6 mil dead money
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Without watching the throws of every other QB in the league I'd assume roughly the same amount as any other QB last year.

He also didn't play or practice in the preseason or the first half of the season in 2011, got traded to the Raiders, and without much practice or time with the playbook was thrown into the starting job immediately. It's tough to perform your best under those circumstances don't you think? I think 2012 Palmer is more indicative of what to expect out of Palmer since he had a full off season with Oakland just like he'll have here.


If his high number of "dropped" interceptions was not a trend I would not have asked. Ranked #1 in the league despite just 9 games in 2011, he was second equal through week fourteen in 2010.

I have not seen the 2012 numbers from FO yet, so I asked.


I can't give you a precise number because I didn't count those throws (probably should have) but I don't remember thinking "wow the DB should have had that one" too often. My guess would be around 7.
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sunnysouth


Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 478
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.raiders1.ninjagoro.com/2013/carson-palmers-2012-season/
Ok, I'm sold. After sitting down and watching the cutups from all of his 2012 passes.
This is an upgrade no doubt.
Stands in the pocket, good awareness. Hard to sack.
money on 3rd down.
I can see us getting another TE.
Give the man some play action opportunities, some help on the interior OL and we are better off.
No playoffs this year, but better off.
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