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Secondary Effect of Calvin's Record
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bgood21


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Secondary Effect of Calvin's Record Reply with quote

Lets be honest as most of us are. The Lions were not good last year. Sure we can list all the excuses: we missed Best, we got screwed in a couple game, special teams killed us. These excused do not dismiss the 4-12.

Interestingly enough, we are an attractive free agent location. Detroit knows its not Miami, New York, Pittsburgh or Green Bay. We can't speak of the glamorous celebrities and broadcasting/movie industry, or a winning history with numerous superbowls. Detroit is what it is, A hard working city, with innovated individuals Why would an individual who is going to be making 2-10 million dollars a year come to Detroit except for an increased pay check.

I have said in conversations with other football fans that Calvin's 2011-2012 season was better than his record setting 2012-2013 season. But in 2013, Calvin Johnson beat the unbeatable record. Jerry Rice's ~1850 receiving yards in a season. While arguments about Calvin's place in history have been debated on this forum the past couple of years, everyone now agrees he is one of the best. Somehow and for some reason this has transformed the way other players see our team. It is not about playing with the detroit lions, it is playing with Calvin Johnson.

Reggie Bush was the first domino. DHB maybe the next. D freeney might be the third. These are players that, I believe, would never consider Detroit unless we paid over the top money. Now that has changed.

I am so glad we have Calvin on our team. His play on the field is even having effects off the field.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree to an extent, but I don't believe that it's just Calvin attracting these F/A's. We have three legit stars on our team, and although Calvin is an undeniable superstar, his attractiveness wouldn't be as strong without Stafford- and there's no doubt in my mind players around the league have a tremendous amount of respect for Ndamukong Suh.
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Maverick12


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Secondary Effect of Calvin's Record Reply with quote

bgood21 wrote:
Lets be honest as most of us are. The Lions were not good last year. Sure we can list all the excuses: we missed Best, we got screwed in a couple game, special teams killed us. These excused do not dismiss the 4-12.

Interestingly enough, we are an attractive free agent location. Detroit knows its not Miami, New York, Pittsburgh or Green Bay. We can't speak of the glamorous celebrities and broadcasting/movie industry, or a winning history with numerous superbowls. Detroit is what it is, A hard working city, with innovated individuals Why would an individual who is going to be making 2-10 million dollars a year come to Detroit except for an increased pay check.

I have said in conversations with other football fans that Calvin's 2011-2012 season was better than his record setting 2012-2013 season. But in 2013, Calvin Johnson beat the unbeatable record. Jerry Rice's ~1850 receiving yards in a season. While arguments about Calvin's place in history have been debated on this forum the past couple of years, everyone now agrees he is one of the best. Somehow and for some reason this has transformed the way other players see our team. It is not about playing with the detroit lions, it is playing with Calvin Johnson.

Reggie Bush was the first domino. DHB maybe the next. D freeney might be the third. These are players that, I believe, would never consider Detroit unless we paid over the top money. Now that has changed.

I am so glad we have Calvin on our team. His play on the field is even having effects off the field.
[b]

Has Freeney been in contact with the Lions? I have not read anything relating to it.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bush u may have case but using DHB as example is blah. He was cut by Raiders for few reasons.

Overall good view though
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you provide an interesting perspective.

I think Stafford is part of that as well. If I were a young receiver I would jump at the chance to play for the Lions. Not just playing with CJ but having him as a mentor and having him drawing coverage puts me in a great situation. Then I'd be playing with a QB who can deliver the ball on a team with a pass first offence.
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detroitroar


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No matter your W/L, having a true superstar in his prime always makes that team that much more appealing.

I agree 100% that CJ's 11' season was better than his 12'.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detroitroar wrote:
No matter your W/L, having a true superstar in his prime always makes that team that much more appealing.

I agree 100% that CJ's 11' season was better than his 12'.


I'm hoping his 2013 blows 11/12 out of the water.
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RyanFuller003


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Secondary Effect of Calvin's Record Reply with quote

bgood21 wrote:
I have said in conversations with other football fans that Calvin's 2011-2012 season was better than his record setting 2012-2013 season. But in 2013, Calvin Johnson beat the unbeatable record. Jerry Rice's ~1850 receiving yards in a season. While arguments about Calvin's place in history have been debated on this forum the past couple of years, everyone now agrees he is one of the best. Somehow and for some reason this has transformed the way other players see our team. It is not about playing with the detroit lions, it is playing with Calvin Johnson.

Did anyone really consider Rice's record "unbeatable?" Lots of people had come fairly close to Rice's 1,848 yards, like to the point where one or two more big catches would have broken it. As the NFL moves more and more to a pass-dominated league, it seemed like only a matter of time before someone broke that record. In fact I'm pretty surprised that someone like Andre Johnson hasn't already broken it. Also, if I'm being honest, I think Calvin will break his own record within the next few years. Most of Rice's career records are in the unbeatable range simply because he played until he was 42 and he was still making Pro Bowls at age 40, but the single-season stuff is breakable. Probably his craziest one was the 22 TDs, but Moss already took care of that (albeit it took him 4 more games to do so).

Quote:
Reggie Bush was the first domino. DHB maybe the next. D freeney might be the third. These are players that, I believe, would never consider Detroit unless we paid over the top money. Now that has changed.

Well you're forgetting Glover Quin, but I don't think Calvin had anything to do with that one. He probably had a bit to do with Bush, but the team was obviously pursuing him hard. Burleson even addressed him on NFL network several months ago, pleading for him to come to Detroit. Part of that is that I don't think the market for Bush was particularly huge. Ditto for Jason Jones. I think he signed here because we offered him a starting job and he wasn't likely to get that guarantee from many other teams. Plus he's a Detroit resident.

As for DHB, he's pretty much a nobody in the grand scheme of things. He was picked way too high in the draft, had a terrible rookie year, and has turned things up a bit in the last two, but he's still a very flawed and incomplete receiver. His hands are shaky, especially when he's running deep routes. For a man of his size and speed he can disappear. He's probably one bad season away from being done in the league. I would wager even if we draft him, we'll still probably draft a receiver somewhere in the 2nd-4th rounds.

Freeney is not going to sign. We can't afford him. They need about $5.5 million to sign their draft picks and about the best estimate I've seen as to our remaining cap space is about $8 million. Freeney is asking for $6 million. We could sign Brandon Moore or DHB (but not both), and then we'd basically have to sit tight until the draft.
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detroitroar


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
No matter your W/L, having a true superstar in his prime always makes that team that much more appealing.

I agree 100% that CJ's 11' season was better than his 12'.


I'm hoping his 2013 blows 11/12 out of the water.


I think we'd all rather see 20 TD's, than 2000 yards.

Lets just trade him for Dez and get both. Laughing
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theuntouchable


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think Burleson had more to do with Bush coming then most anything else. Burleson has become a leader with this team and people listen to him.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detroitroar wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
No matter your W/L, having a true superstar in his prime always makes that team that much more appealing.

I agree 100% that CJ's 11' season was better than his 12'.


I'm hoping his 2013 blows 11/12 out of the water.


I think we'd all rather see 20 TD's, than 2000 yards.

Lets just trade him for Dez and get both. Laughing


Sure, but I don't care who gets the TD's as long as they score TD's.
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RIP CITY


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, let's not pretend that we signed any stars this offseason. Reggie Bush is a big name more for what he did at USC (both on and off the field) than what he's done in the NFL. His popularity is more that of a celebrity than a football player to be honest, with the whole Kim Kardashian thing too (why she is famous still baffles me to this day, but you get my point.) I will give him credit where credit is due, he's become a really solid starting RB but he's not elite by any means.

Glover Quinn is a second tier Safety and Jason Jones is an average starter, better as a backup. These are not huge signings like everyone is making them out to be. It's been an ok offseason but it is certainly nothing special. It's not like we just signed Adrian Peterson/Arian Foster/Maurice Jones-Drew (there wasn't any real big name FA RB's so I just used them, Steven Jackson is still better than Bush too) or Ed Reed/Charles Woodson/Nnamdi Asomugha or Dwight Freeney/Osi Umenyiora/Elvis Dumervil. The real big name Free Agents won't come here until the Lions have won consistently over the course of 3-4 years.

Having guys like Calvin, Stafford and Suh will get the 2nd and 3rd tier FA's to come here, like the guys we just signed, but to get anyone of real substance we will have to start winning consistently.
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SeattleLionFan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Secondary Effect of Calvin's Record Reply with quote

Maverick12 wrote:

Has Freeney been in contact with the Lions? I have not read anything relating to it.


Not sure if contact has been made but Freeney has indicated the Lions are one of 3 teams he wants to play for:

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2013/03/dwight_freeney_interested_in_p.html

I do believe that CJ is in part a reason why Reggie Bush came to us...have to remember, Linehan is the O-Coordinator and now that he has 3 of 4 major pieces (Stafford, CJ and RB), getting DHB into the mix will allow him to come pretty close to what Mike Martz did with the Rams when he had Warner, Faulk, Holt and Bruce.

Getting to the Super Bowl doesn't mean that one guy is going to get you there...we've tried that a few times and it hasn't worked.

Get Bay in here and now you have an offensive core unit along with some extended weapons (Pettigrew, Heller, LeShoure)...

If they can get Freeney and another DE later in the draft (Want them to draft an OL with 5th pick) and a decent CB, the defense "should" be good enough to keep them in the games.
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SeattleLionFan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RIP CITY wrote:
Well, let's not pretend that we signed any stars this offseason. Reggie Bush is a big name more for what he did at USC (both on and off the field) than what he's done in the NFL. His popularity is more that of a celebrity than a football player to be honest, with the whole Kim Kardashian thing too (why she is famous still baffles me to this day, but you get my point.) I will give him credit where credit is due, he's become a really solid starting RB but he's not elite by any means.


I think Reggie has had limited success is mainly because he hasn't really been in the right system...yes, I said it, the dreaded "S" word! Shocked

I agree that Reggie does not have the talent to be a running back that can carry a team...but I look to the Rams and how they utilized a similar player in Marshall Faulk and because he was in that system, he became a superstar. I know that he had relative success with the Colts but how Martz used him just put him on the map.

While I wouldn't ever want to see Martz back on the Detroit sidelines, I just wonder what he thinks of the talent we have now.
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bgood21


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Secondary Effect of Calvin's Record Reply with quote

[quote="RyanFuller003"][quote="bgood21"]I have said in conversations with other football fans that Calvin's 2011-2012 season was better than his record setting 2012-2013 season. But in 2013, Calvin Johnson beat the unbeatable record. Jerry Rice's ~1850 receiving yards in a season. While arguments about Calvin's place in history have been debated on this forum the past couple of years, everyone now agrees he is one of the best. Somehow and for some reason this has transformed the way other players see our team. It is not about playing with the detroit lions, it is playing with Calvin Johnson.[/quote]
Did anyone really consider Rice's record "unbeatable?" Lots of people had come fairly close to Rice's 1,848 yards, like to the point where one or two more big catches would have broken it. As the NFL moves more and more to a pass-dominated league, it seemed like only a matter of time before someone broke that record. In fact I'm pretty surprised that someone like Andre Johnson hasn't already broken it. Also, if I'm being honest, I think Calvin will break his own record within the next few years. Most of Rice's career records are in the unbeatable range simply because he played until he was 42 and he was still making Pro Bowls at age 40, but the single-season stuff is breakable. Probably his craziest one was the 22 TDs, but Moss already took care of that (albeit it took him 4 more games to do so).

[quote]Reggie Bush was the first domino. DHB maybe the next. D freeney might be the third. These are players that, I believe, would never consider Detroit unless we paid over the top money. Now that has changed.[/quote]
Well you're forgetting Glover Quin, but I don't think Calvin had anything to do with that one. He probably had a bit to do with Bush, but the team was obviously pursuing him hard. Burleson even addressed him on NFL network several months ago, pleading for him to come to Detroit. Part of that is that I don't think the market for Bush was particularly huge. Ditto for Jason Jones. I think he signed here because we offered him a starting job and he wasn't likely to get that guarantee from many other teams. Plus he's a Detroit resident.

As for DHB, he's pretty much a nobody in the grand scheme of things. He was picked way too high in the draft, had a terrible rookie year, and has turned things up a bit in the last two, but he's still a very flawed and incomplete receiver. His hands are shaky, especially when he's running deep routes. For a man of his size and speed he can disappear. He's probably one bad season away from being done in the league. I would wager even if we draft him, we'll still probably draft a receiver somewhere in the 2nd-4th rounds.

Freeney is not going to sign. We can't afford him. They need about $5.5 million to sign their draft picks and about the best estimate I've seen as to our remaining cap space is about $8 million. Freeney is asking for $6 million. We could sign Brandon Moore or DHB (but not both), and then we'd basically have to sit tight until the draft.[/quote]

Ryan, I have a little bit of a different prespective on the passing league mentality of the modern NFL and elite wide receiver stats. I am not sure how the NFL being a passing league correlates to high number 1 wide receiver numbers. Guys like Jerry Rice, Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, and even Herman Moore played in "bigger" packages. For instance there would be two TE or TE&FB on the field the first two downs (very similar in someways to what SF run now). (I know you know this but I am just trying to articulate my argument.) When a team decided to pass, the play only had a couple of routes. This allowed for the primary receiver, especially talented ones, to get plenty of opportunities to be the first option. Now offenses are spread out and have four to five routes going on a single play. The spread of passes is pretty significant. This boosts passing yards, but I do not believe it has significantly increased elite WR yards. That is why I believed Jerry Rice's record was pretty much unbeatable. Anyways I can understand why someone would disagree with this prespective. The record just puts a stamp on what we have known for a while. Calvin Johnson is ridiculous, and makes defenses completely change the way they play.

The thing I like about this years FA is they aren't some coaches previous players. Examples include but are not limited to KVB or Dewayne White. These are talented players that fit our approach. Are they elite? They haven't been so far, but everyone benefits from scheme.

Maybe the FA market is that brutal but when a guy like D Freeney says he considers Detroit in his top 3: that is something I haven't heard a player I respect say in a long time.

And you are right, Suh and Fairley definately help in our defense "recruiting"
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