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Ireland plans to draft expensive positions...
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
At some point, the continual defense of every single move that Jeff Ireland makers becomes pathological.

Whatever the case, the strategy is sound in light of the new CBA, and Ireland did a decent job of reading the free agent market. The question is will he employ the strategy he talked about, or is he simply fighting for his job.


As is the continual bashing of every move Ireland makes.....

Don't get me wrong there is plenty of bad moves....Philip Merling, Brandon Marshall/Egnew...failure to address the QB position, missing on second round picks on a consistent basis, but losing players that were drafted several years ago that where picked for a specific scheme that no longer fit what the current coach wants is not something I'm going to hold over a man's head. It is his job to fill the team with guys the coach wants and so far he seems to be doing a decent job of it.

As i have said in the past....I will evaluate him based on what he has done since the hiring of Philbin...if at the end of the season the team did not achieve what it sets out to do (make the playoffs) then you will see me say nothing in his defense, but I am willing to give the man a chance if the billionaire whose money is invested in the team is willing to.


Giving him a chance is one thing, classifying every new move he makes as the right move is another. Hope blinds. I get it because I've been there.
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
At some point, the continual defense of every single move that Jeff Ireland makers becomes pathological.

Whatever the case, the strategy is sound in light of the new CBA, and Ireland did a decent job of reading the free agent market. The question is will he employ the strategy he talked about, or is he simply fighting for his job.


As is the continual bashing of every move Ireland makes.....

Don't get me wrong there is plenty of bad moves....Philip Merling, Brandon Marshall/Egnew...failure to address the QB position, missing on second round picks on a consistent basis, but losing players that were drafted several years ago that where picked for a specific scheme that no longer fit what the current coach wants is not something I'm going to hold over a man's head. It is his job to fill the team with guys the coach wants and so far he seems to be doing a decent job of it.

As i have said in the past....I will evaluate him based on what he has done since the hiring of Philbin...if at the end of the season the team did not achieve what it sets out to do (make the playoffs) then you will see me say nothing in his defense, but I am willing to give the man a chance if the billionaire whose money is invested in the team is willing to.


Giving him a chance is one thing, classifying every new move he makes as the right move is another. Hope blinds. I get it because I've been there.


Questioning moves is one thing, but seeing every move he makes as detrimental is another....I understand though...it is hard to trust after being burned so many times...

Merc I do enjoy these conversations....if we all had the same opinion it would make the forum very boring...
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Russ57


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If, between now and the draft, Ireland manges to add at least one good OT and CB it would go a long way towards making amends for his past actions.

So far I like the fact that we seem to be getting rid of players that don't fit in and making efforts to replace them with ones that we hope will. I like that we are finding somebody to fill needs so that we can go into the draft without having to pick a certain position.

We do seem to be taking some amount of risks/gambles. By that I mean signing guys coming off an injury or guys that have been late bloomers and only had a year or two of success. Still I think players like Keller and Ellerbe will prove to be good choices.

All that said, for the first couple of years I felt that the team was finally on a good path with Parcells and we all know how that turned out and set us back. Given that Ireland was at the helm we hav good reason to be skeptical.

I must admit that, right now, I'm not sure if I'd be happier if he drafted Tavon Austin in the first and Tyler Eifert in the second or if he played it safer and took Sheldon Richardson/Lane Johson and Alex Oakafor/Larry Warford. I would, at least, like to see a Robert Woods/Da'Rick Rogers somewhere though.

In short I'd like to see him make safe picks in the top of the draft but take a few chances latter on. Take a risk on a few guys that fit the scheme and have slipped due to injury or character concerns. I'm talking about guys like Knile Davis and John Boyett.
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Deadeye


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate Irelands history with skill position players, and I'm not talking about since 2008. The BP years were a waste because we were using the BP 1986 formula for success.

I'm talking about the last two drafts: Daniel Thomas, Clyde Gates, and Michael Egnew. Honestly, I could do a better job throwing darts at a list of names cut out from the newspaper. I know I wasn't alone in begging for us to take Givens or Hilton with that extra 3rd last April, yet we found a way to squander it.

Our offense is still sooooo stinkin slow, Wallace by himself does not change that. I question Irelands ability to even project quality WRs, TEs, and RBs to within two full rounds of where they should be drafted.

I feel content with his d-line picks. and if Tannehill progresses we'll have something close to a franchise QB for a change. But none of that matters if we can't DRAFT a decent WR or TE. This draft is shaping up to be a disaster based on the fact we've got extra picks to squander.

Philosophically, I'm opposed to high picks at corner back. The pass rush is way more important, and we STILL need a compliment for Wake. And if we find that, we STILL need to find Wakes replacement because he's getting up there now in age.

I want a pass rusher, the top o-lineman, or Austin at #12. We can get corners in the mid-rounds as was SUGgested earlier.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree I have no confidence in his ability to pick skill positions either. The daniel thomas pick still bugs me because for one he isnt a power back. At kansas st he excelled on toss sweeps and pitches and screen games and now we use him as a power back.

The only saving grace maybe is I heard him say philbin is alot more involved in the process in helping him find the players he wants. If that makes a difference time will tell I guess.
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Kaiowas05


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so we can rule out cooper then
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, this strategy made even more sense with the old CBA. Why would you draft on OG high when you knew you were going to have to pay him more than any OG in the nfl?
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SUG


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
SUG wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Maddogg wrote:
Has anyone else noticed 9 of the 14 "expensive positions" that he has drafted are no longer with the Dolphins. If you take out the 2012 draft its even worse, 9 of the 11 are gone.

Based then on past performance the 2013 draft could be a disaster for the franchise. Those 5 picks in the first three rounds means at least 4 of them will no longer be with the team by 2016.

We were having such a great off season and now Jeff Ireland had to go and bring a crashing halt to the pulse that was revived in Dolphinland.


Change of coach, change of scheme....turnover will happen...that doesn't mean they were bad picks...

Looking at all those picks (not just the big money guys....)

6 are still starters (or will be starters) for the Dolphins (Hartline, Pouncey, Jerry, Misi, Odrick and Miller who seems to be given )....Davis, Smith, and Long will be starting next season for their respected teams Langford starts for the Texans..and Henne started for the Jags last season...The team has 2 regular contributors (Thomas and Vernon)

Out of the 22 picks 10/11 are starters 2 are regular contributors...50% seems to be about the NFL average....


You know Maddog, thats an interesting point but those numbers wouldn't be half as bad if we wrre actually
converting that player turnover into actual draft pks !

That to me is equal to or worse in my opinion.
That to me has to be Irelands biggest flaw.

Obviously were not always going to come out of a draft or a transitioning regime with an A+ rating. Vontae & S. Smith are evidence of that, but at least we genetated those transitioning players into an oportunity/asset.
But when I look at the J. Long saga, Dansby, 11th pk #19 $ several others ... I just cringe.
We had better not make that mistake with D. Bess .

sug


I don't understand why people think it is easy to trade a player....especially a player with only a year remaining his contract.

1st there has to be a market for that player and that market has to match what the trading team desires.

2nd a team must be willing/wanting to trade...using that final year as an evaluation tool....if he does well, sign him....if not let him walk.

Jake Long and Sean Smith are good examples...the coaches wanted to see if both players could handle the new system....as the season progressed it was evident that both players would be allowed to move on.

Vontae Davis is another good example....he was a player that was lazy and....well....dumb. The team felt he would not handle the new system and traded him....no need for that extra evaluation year.

Lets stop assuming that the team can simply just trade a player away...there have been 4 trades this year....4...granted 3 of those trades received more press then almost any other transaction, but trades are more and more rare (especially involving a player) then in the past. The exception would be the draft and even a majority of those deal with picks being traded for picks...


All due respect ... the only explination I can see for not trading 1st Overall pk J. Long is overvaluation & greed.
You cannot get me to believe we couldn't have generated a high 3rd rnd pk!
Instead we get nothing I've touched on that FO flaw numerous times.

Something is better than nothing.
Better to trade a player a yr too soon than a ....

sug
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaiowas05 wrote:
so we can rule out cooper then
I am not so sure about that he did draft a center 15th overall so if he has Cooper high on his board he will draft him at 12
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
At some point, the continual defense of every single move that Jeff Ireland makers becomes pathological.


See there. Some may read that and feel that they are being characterized as "pathological" ... But I read that and it's clear to me that your are only talking about "the continual defense of every move that Jeff Ireland makes." I genuinely understand that and don't feel characterized in the slightest. Especially since we are friends.

Wink
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Maddogg


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
At some point, the continual defense of every single move that Jeff Ireland makers becomes pathological.


See there. Some may read that and feel that they are being characterized as "pathological" ... But I read that and it's clear to me that your are only talking about "the continual defense of every move that Jeff Ireland makes." I genuinely understand that and don't feel characterized in the slightest. Especially since we are friends.

Wink


Since we are all friends sleepover at my house this weekend! Stated requirement is that only Miami Dolphin pajamas allowed.
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will there be pillow fights
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Fins20??SBChamp


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know everybody is high on Tavon Austin (with good reason) but it is the other WR from WVU the guy I want for us. He can play outside and inside. Has excellent hands and makes the tough catches.

Quote:
Rotoworld
According to STATS ICE, West Virginia's Stedman Bailey made more "clutch receptions" in 2012 than any top draft-eligible receiver on a minimum of 100 targets.
"Clutch receptions" are defined as catches that went for a first down or touchdown. Scheme, quarterback play, and competition can affect stats like this, but it's still interesting that Bailey dominated the field with 72 "clutch" catches amongst 148 targets (48.6 percent). Next closest was Oregon State's Markus Wheaton, with 64 "clutch" catches on 141 passes his way (45.4 percent).

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joeyL.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fins20??SBChamp wrote:
I know everybody is high on Tavon Austin (with good reason) but it is the other WR from WVU the guy I want for us. He can play outside and inside. Has excellent hands and makes the tough catches.

Quote:
Rotoworld
According to STATS ICE, West Virginia's Stedman Bailey made more "clutch receptions" in 2012 than any top draft-eligible receiver on a minimum of 100 targets.
"Clutch receptions" are defined as catches that went for a first down or touchdown. Scheme, quarterback play, and competition can affect stats like this, but it's still interesting that Bailey dominated the field with 72 "clutch" catches amongst 148 targets (48.6 percent). Next closest was Oregon State's Markus Wheaton, with 64 "clutch" catches on 141 passes his way (45.4 percent).


I like both of them, but he faced soft coverage all year. Defenses were concentraiting on Tavon.

Tavon is your "take it to the house" kinda guy

Stedman is your "hey, ill get the 1st down kinda guy" Bess 2.0
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your selling Stedman Bailey short calling him Bess 2.0. Bailey can run more vertical routes then bess the 9 route and deep post and his best route is deep slant. I see Steve smith but not as explosive and because of his size and he isn't a 4.4 40 guy he will be a 3rd round guy
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