Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Ireland plans to draft expensive positions...
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Miami Dolphins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
green4gulf wrote:
SUG wrote:
Russ57 wrote:
Assuming "that guy" in Lane.....why do you feel he is that much better than the next one?

Only OT I'd move up for is Eric. I'd be totally fine with Kyle Long and Terron Armstead.


Fischer is the guy I would move up to go get as well.
But at the same time I'm not comfy with taking a guy like Kyle Long at 12.

We might get lucky if someone is tired enough waiting for a QB to drop on them & gotta have one.
Those moves often times can trigger an avalanche but if there is no worthy pass rush specialist or OL I'd rather trade down.

There is no way anyone is going to talk me into drafting a CB at #12, I find that to be ridiculous, I'd rather draft Eifert at #12.

sug


I can see not drafting a CB at #12 if you think that there just isn't any CB available that grades out in that range, but for any other reason you do draft a CB high IMO.

We have a need for a CB in a big way, second only to OT.

If we can't get an OT at #12 then CB would be the next position to look at, and if none grade out in that range it's on to pass rushers IMO.


Oh I realize we need another starting CB or 2 alright.
But my position is more from a philosophical standpoint of a 4/3 Deff approach.
Why on earth would I draft a CB at #12 when we play a bunch of Zone !?!?
That's absolutely assinine in my opinion, acquire elite front 7 & really good Safety's.
Otherwise to me, it's like shopping for high performance tires, to go buy a used car & work a newspaper route.

sug


Personally I don't like any of the CB's (outside of Milliner) at 12...and I think the drop off between Rhodes and Trufant to Ryan and Taylor is very little. The better value would be to sign Grimes and draft one in the 2nd....with Patterson and two of the better safeties in the NFL the DB's should be fine next season.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6760
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
SUG wrote:
green4gulf wrote:
SUG wrote:
Russ57 wrote:
Assuming "that guy" in Lane.....why do you feel he is that much better than the next one?

Only OT I'd move up for is Eric. I'd be totally fine with Kyle Long and Terron Armstead.


Fischer is the guy I would move up to go get as well.
But at the same time I'm not comfy with taking a guy like Kyle Long at 12.

We might get lucky if someone is tired enough waiting for a QB to drop on them & gotta have one.
Those moves often times can trigger an avalanche but if there is no worthy pass rush specialist or OL I'd rather trade down.

There is no way anyone is going to talk me into drafting a CB at #12, I find that to be ridiculous, I'd rather draft Eifert at #12.

sug


I can see not drafting a CB at #12 if you think that there just isn't any CB available that grades out in that range, but for any other reason you do draft a CB high IMO.

We have a need for a CB in a big way, second only to OT.

If we can't get an OT at #12 then CB would be the next position to look at, and if none grade out in that range it's on to pass rushers IMO.


Oh I realize we need another starting CB or 2 alright.
But my position is more from a philosophical standpoint of a 4/3 Deff approach.
Why on earth would I draft a CB at #12 when we play a bunch of Zone !?!?
That's absolutely assinine in my opinion, acquire elite front 7 & really good Safety's.
Otherwise to me, it's like shopping for high performance tires, to go buy a used car & work a newspaper route.

sug


Personally I don't like any of the CB's (outside of Milliner) at 12...and I think the drop off between Rhodes and Trufant to Ryan and Taylor is very little. The better value would be to sign Grimes and draft one in the 2nd....with Patterson and two of the better safeties in the NFL the DB's should be fine next season.


Really ... I wasn't of the mindset to even discuss CB till after selection 3A or 3B.
I haven't even scouted 1 single CB this yr, given the Deff we operate I just don't care.
(other than the obvious footage of Rhodes & how absolutely wrong he is for us)
Draft 2 CBs - back to back in the 4th & 5th rnd, DONE !

sug
_________________
# 52
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Maddogg


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 1682
Location: A Galaxy Far Far Away......
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone else noticed 9 of the 14 "expensive positions" that he has drafted are no longer with the Dolphins. If you take out the 2012 draft its even worse, 9 of the 11 are gone.

Based then on past performance the 2013 draft could be a disaster for the franchise. Those 5 picks in the first three rounds means at least 4 of them will no longer be with the team by 2016.

We were having such a great off season and now Jeff Ireland had to go and bring a crashing halt to the pulse that was revived in Dolphinland.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maddogg wrote:
Has anyone else noticed 9 of the 14 "expensive positions" that he has drafted are no longer with the Dolphins. If you take out the 2012 draft its even worse, 9 of the 11 are gone.

Based then on past performance the 2013 draft could be a disaster for the franchise. Those 5 picks in the first three rounds means at least 4 of them will no longer be with the team by 2016.

We were having such a great off season and now Jeff Ireland had to go and bring a crashing halt to the pulse that was revived in Dolphinland.


Change of coach, change of scheme....turnover will happen...that doesn't mean they were bad picks...

Looking at all those picks (not just the big money guys....)

6 are still starters (or will be starters) for the Dolphins (Hartline, Pouncey, Jerry, Misi, Odrick and Miller who seems to be given )....Davis, Smith, and Long will be starting next season for their respected teams Langford starts for the Texans..and Henne started for the Jags last season...The team has 2 regular contributors (Thomas and Vernon)

Out of the 22 picks 10/11 are starters 2 are regular contributors...50% seems to be about the NFL average....
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6760
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Maddogg wrote:
Has anyone else noticed 9 of the 14 "expensive positions" that he has drafted are no longer with the Dolphins. If you take out the 2012 draft its even worse, 9 of the 11 are gone.

Based then on past performance the 2013 draft could be a disaster for the franchise. Those 5 picks in the first three rounds means at least 4 of them will no longer be with the team by 2016.

We were having such a great off season and now Jeff Ireland had to go and bring a crashing halt to the pulse that was revived in Dolphinland.


Change of coach, change of scheme....turnover will happen...that doesn't mean they were bad picks...

Looking at all those picks (not just the big money guys....)

6 are still starters (or will be starters) for the Dolphins (Hartline, Pouncey, Jerry, Misi, Odrick and Miller who seems to be given )....Davis, Smith, and Long will be starting next season for their respected teams Langford starts for the Texans..and Henne started for the Jags last season...The team has 2 regular contributors (Thomas and Vernon)

Out of the 22 picks 10/11 are starters 2 are regular contributors...50% seems to be about the NFL average....


You know Maddog, thats an interesting point but those numbers wouldn't be half as bad if we wrre actually
converting that player turnover into actual draft pks !

That to me is equal to or worse in my opinion.
That to me has to be Irelands biggest flaw.

Obviously were not always going to come out of a draft or a transitioning regime with an A+ rating. Vontae & S. Smith are evidence of that, but at least we genetated those transitioning players into an oportunity/asset.
But when I look at the J. Long saga, Dansby, 11th pk #19 $ several others ... I just cringe.
We had better not make that mistake with D. Bess .

sug
_________________
# 52
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Maddogg wrote:
Has anyone else noticed 9 of the 14 "expensive positions" that he has drafted are no longer with the Dolphins. If you take out the 2012 draft its even worse, 9 of the 11 are gone.

Based then on past performance the 2013 draft could be a disaster for the franchise. Those 5 picks in the first three rounds means at least 4 of them will no longer be with the team by 2016.

We were having such a great off season and now Jeff Ireland had to go and bring a crashing halt to the pulse that was revived in Dolphinland.


Change of coach, change of scheme....turnover will happen...that doesn't mean they were bad picks...

Looking at all those picks (not just the big money guys....)

6 are still starters (or will be starters) for the Dolphins (Hartline, Pouncey, Jerry, Misi, Odrick and Miller who seems to be given )....Davis, Smith, and Long will be starting next season for their respected teams Langford starts for the Texans..and Henne started for the Jags last season...The team has 2 regular contributors (Thomas and Vernon)

Out of the 22 picks 10/11 are starters 2 are regular contributors...50% seems to be about the NFL average....


You know Maddog, thats an interesting point but those numbers wouldn't be half as bad if we wrre actually
converting that player turnover into actual draft pks !

That to me is equal to or worse in my opinion.
That to me has to be Irelands biggest flaw.

Obviously were not always going to come out of a draft or a transitioning regime with an A+ rating. Vontae & S. Smith are evidence of that, but at least we genetated those transitioning players into an oportunity/asset.
But when I look at the J. Long saga, Dansby, 11th pk #19 $ several others ... I just cringe.
We had better not make that mistake with D. Bess .

sug


I don't understand why people think it is easy to trade a player....especially a player with only a year remaining his contract.

1st there has to be a market for that player and that market has to match what the trading team desires.

2nd a team must be willing/wanting to trade...using that final year as an evaluation tool....if he does well, sign him....if not let him walk.

Jake Long and Sean Smith are good examples...the coaches wanted to see if both players could handle the new system....as the season progressed it was evident that both players would be allowed to move on.

Vontae Davis is another good example....he was a player that was lazy and....well....dumb. The team felt he would not handle the new system and traded him....no need for that extra evaluation year.

Lets stop assuming that the team can simply just trade a player away...there have been 4 trades this year....4...granted 3 of those trades received more press then almost any other transaction, but trades are more and more rare (especially involving a player) then in the past. The exception would be the draft and even a majority of those deal with picks being traded for picks...
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Russ57


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 684
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly think Armstead and Long could become a darn good pair of left and right tackles for a ZBS. Poyer would be the CB I'd go after considering we play zone.

None of those players would need to be picked in the first round. With luck one of them could be had in the third. Unless an OT falls I feel the only sensible choice in this draft (at pick 12) is DL.

Lane was considered a late round guy just a short time ago. Now it is Wagner who is the late round guy!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joeyL.


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 935
Location: Morgantown, WV
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, we're trading down??


No, but in all seriousness can we take anything that is said with a grain of salt at this point??

My initial reaction was he was talking about tavon, but after reading some of the posts that have followed I could see a trade up for a LT.
_________________

^^^packerbacker87, mad props yo.
"
This is America, the land of individualism, civil
disobedience and footballs that dont roll like the rest of the world wants them to"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1920
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy to keep your eye on for Miami is T Brennen Williams from North Carolina. Jim turner worked the pro day he is a zone fit and was a highly regarded player before he tore his labrum before the season.

Kyle long could be a tackle but it would be a couple years away he is a G right away tackle down the road.

Terron Armstead is a good prospect but isn't ready right away and the simple fact that scouts want to see him take reps at TE and project him to G tells me something but I have not studied him enough yet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mercury22


Most Valuable Poster (1st Ballot)

Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12788
Location: the 50 yard line
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those trying to suggest that this "strategy" was employed by Ireland in previous drafts I would say to you that that idea doesn't make much sense then.

The only way that employing the "drafting expensive positons" would make any sense is after the most recent CBA. The new CBA put a structure in place that made rookie contracts some of the best deals on the team. Prior to the new CBA (the years many of you are using as examples of Ireland employing that strategy) the contracts for high end rookies were some of the worst deals on the team. It was quite common that the 1st round rookie from the current draft would end up being the highest paid player on the team. So that strategy wouldn't make as much sense under the previous CBA.

With that said, that strategy does make a lot of sense and I wish Ireland employed it. However, his biggest move of the off season was to sign the most expensive Free Agent, a WR, to a long term HUGE contract.
_________________
"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
For those trying to suggest that this "strategy" was employed by Ireland in previous drafts I would say to you that that idea doesn't make much sense then.

The only way that employing the "drafting expensive positons" would make any sense is after the most recent CBA. The new CBA put a structure in place that made rookie contracts some of the best deals on the team. Prior to the new CBA (the years many of you are using as examples of Ireland employing that strategy) the contracts for high end rookies were some of the worst deals on the team. It was quite common that the 1st round rookie from the current draft would end up being the highest paid player on the team. So that strategy wouldn't make as much sense under the previous CBA.

With that said, that strategy does make a lot of sense and I wish Ireland employed it. However, his biggest move of the off season was to sign the most expensive Free Agent, a WR, to a long term HUGE contract.


It was a move that needed to be made....the team had the money and needed to spend it on something shiny to help sell season tickets....

I do hope he employs this strategy..as it makes the most sense with the New CBA....

The new CBA makes signing free agent so much easier and as a result we will continue to see those contract get higher and higher (a WR with less production will sign for more than Wallace...)
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1920
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Wallace was the exception he was the shiny toy and pressing need that could not be obtained in the draft because of his rare trait. Ireland also set up the contract where he can wipe his hands clean from it after 2014
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mercury22


Most Valuable Poster (1st Ballot)

Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12788
Location: the 50 yard line
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At some point, the continual defense of every single move that Jeff Ireland makers becomes pathological.

Whatever the case, the strategy is sound in light of the new CBA, and Ireland did a decent job of reading the free agent market. The question is will he employ the strategy he talked about, or is he simply fighting for his job.
_________________
"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1920
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only speak for myself but was only talking about the Mike Wallace deal. I am not sure if he has drafted according to this in the past that would only be a guess on my part. Either way his drafts have been sup par but I am only judging him since the tuna left right or wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
At some point, the continual defense of every single move that Jeff Ireland makers becomes pathological.

Whatever the case, the strategy is sound in light of the new CBA, and Ireland did a decent job of reading the free agent market. The question is will he employ the strategy he talked about, or is he simply fighting for his job.


As is the continual bashing of every move Ireland makes.....

Don't get me wrong there is plenty of bad moves....Philip Merling, Brandon Marshall/Egnew...failure to address the QB position, missing on second round picks on a consistent basis, but losing players that were drafted several years ago that where picked for a specific scheme that no longer fit what the current coach wants is not something I'm going to hold over a man's head. It is his job to fill the team with guys the coach wants and so far he seems to be doing a decent job of it.

As i have said in the past....I will evaluate him based on what he has done since the hiring of Philbin...if at the end of the season the team did not achieve what it sets out to do (make the playoffs) then you will see me say nothing in his defense, but I am willing to give the man a chance if the billionaire whose money is invested in the team is willing to.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Miami Dolphins All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group