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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 15392
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:

Yeah but Knapp came in and changed the offense he was in anyway. Flynn's starts in GB and Pryor's 1 start are so different. Say whatever else you want to but saying they are the same is just asinine, bro.


It's not like he was capable of grasping the entire offense anyway so isn't it a moot point? I agree they're different and acknowledged your correcting of my error but I don't think they're as different as you're making them out to be.


Is Matt Flynn a young, raw QB? No. He's a veteran who has been in the league for a while and has a few starts under his belt.

In what ways are they similar? That they haven't started that much? I guess you could say Dennis Dixon and Ryan Mallet aren't that different then.


I considered Flynn young and raw, yes. I admit I forgot about his start in 2010. I thought his start against Detroit was his first but let's be real, it's not like it matters to a large extent. And I'll also admit I thought it was his 3rd year in the league, not 4th but again, not a HUGE deal.

So Flynn had been in the league one more year and had one more start under his belt. It's not like we're talking about a guy who started half the season compared to a rookie in his first start. They're similar but not as close as I originally made it seem but not a far apart as you're making it seem.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 15392
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
He cant help the over the top hatred, he's been consumed by the darkside of the force.


I've noticed the extremes of both sides do it. Usually end up in saying things that aren't true. Which is why I blew up on nodisrespect yesterday when he said Pryor is better than Palmer right now. And why I disagreed with Jtagg right here.

I might disagree with some opinions, but as long as they follow logic then I don't have a problem with them.

I agree.

I also have no problem if someone agrees with everything I say. Laughing


I completely agree.

And really this whole trade is kind of dumb. Seattle has said they aren't trading him and Oakland won't trade for him if they still have Palmer. Plus this doesn't help out our cap situation at all either.


Oh we're not going after Flynn but let's be serious, it beats talking about it instead of the same draft, Palmer, crap we've talked about for the past couple months LOL.
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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1039
Location: Saturn
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still liking the possibility of bringing Vince Young back (good clip on Skip Bayliss clip on the topic of Raiders QB http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-ONHp5XoDs )
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Silver&Black88


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Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
I considered Flynn young and raw, yes.


Welp, this is the core of it. I definitely do not consider a 27 year old QB who has been developed by Mike McCarthy for years as young or raw.
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raiders707


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 654
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i wouldnt mind bringing in Vincy Young, not as our starter! of course but see how he does in camp this is only if we Cut or Trade CP, and i wouldnt mind bringing in anothe QB Flynn or Kolb, i put my trust in RM no matter how bad it hurts.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 15392
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I considered Flynn young and raw, yes.


Welp, this is the core of it. I definitely do not consider a 27 year old QB who has been developed by Mike McCarthy for years as young or raw.


I'm talking about at the time of his start against Detroit. He was 26 and only in the league 3 years, rarely played, and wasn't a top prospect coming out of college. He needed the time to sit and learn. Just b/c you sit doesn't take away the status of being a "raw" prospect IMO. Getting a considerable amount of playing time does that.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I considered Flynn young and raw, yes.


Welp, this is the core of it. I definitely do not consider a 27 year old QB who has been developed by Mike McCarthy for years as young or raw.


I'm talking about at the time of his start against Detroit. He was 26 and only in the league 3 years, rarely played, and wasn't a top prospect coming out of college. He needed the time to sit and learn. Just b/c you sit doesn't take away the status of being a "raw" prospect IMO. Getting a considerable amount of playing time does that.


Then why do raw players, especially QBs, often sit for a while when they enter the league? If the best way of refining them is to giving them considerable playing time then why don't coaches do that? A player not getting significant playing time still gets NFL coaching to refine their game, practices and breaks down film, often with the starter.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 13266
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I considered Flynn young and raw, yes.


Welp, this is the core of it. I definitely do not consider a 27 year old QB who has been developed by Mike McCarthy for years as young or raw.


I'm talking about at the time of his start against Detroit. He was 26 and only in the league 3 years, rarely played, and wasn't a top prospect coming out of college. He needed the time to sit and learn. Just b/c you sit doesn't take away the status of being a "raw" prospect IMO. Getting a considerable amount of playing time does that.


I see both points but here is what I see with Flynn. He actually had a QB coach, an OC, and an offensive minded HC. He also had a pro bowl TE and WR and opportunistic defense. They also had the same offensive system during his tenure there so the terminology, routes, blocking scheme all stayed the same. Not to mention he was getting 2nd string reps instead of 3rd string reps. Then he goes to SEA to basically start if he can beat out a 3rd rounder and cant do it even with equal or more snaps.

Pryor didn't even have a QB coach much less the rest of that stuff. Really this last season was Pryor's rookie year. But now again we are changing everything offensively. But at least the WR's are basically the same. He has a QB coach and he will be getting 2nd string reps.

Not saying Pryor is the answer but I believe for those reasons I listed he has not had near the chance or opportunity that was given to Flynn.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 15392
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I considered Flynn young and raw, yes.


Welp, this is the core of it. I definitely do not consider a 27 year old QB who has been developed by Mike McCarthy for years as young or raw.


I'm talking about at the time of his start against Detroit. He was 26 and only in the league 3 years, rarely played, and wasn't a top prospect coming out of college. He needed the time to sit and learn. Just b/c you sit doesn't take away the status of being a "raw" prospect IMO. Getting a considerable amount of playing time does that.


Then why do raw players, especially QBs, often sit for a while when they enter the league? If the best way of refining them is to giving them considerable playing time then why don't coaches do that? A player not getting significant playing still gets NFL coaching to refine their game, practices and breaks down film, often with the starter.


Oh it definitely helps to learn prior to playing. Gain the confidence then gain the experience. I just value experience more but both are necessary. Flynn was by no means pro ready when he came out. He needed that time to sit and now he needs the time to play. I would still consider him raw but just not as much. Had this been a candidate like Dalton, I wouldn't have thought he needed as much time.
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Silver&Black88


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Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I considered Flynn young and raw, yes.


Welp, this is the core of it. I definitely do not consider a 27 year old QB who has been developed by Mike McCarthy for years as young or raw.


I'm talking about at the time of his start against Detroit. He was 26 and only in the league 3 years, rarely played, and wasn't a top prospect coming out of college. He needed the time to sit and learn. Just b/c you sit doesn't take away the status of being a "raw" prospect IMO. Getting a considerable amount of playing time does that.


Then why do raw players, especially QBs, often sit for a while when they enter the league? If the best way of refining them is to giving them considerable playing time then why don't coaches do that? A player not getting significant playing still gets NFL coaching to refine their game, practices and breaks down film, often with the starter.


Oh it definitely helps to learn prior to playing. Gain the confidence then gain the experience. I just value experience more but both are necessary. Flynn was by no means pro ready when he came out. He needed that time to sit and now he needs the time to play. I would still consider him raw but just not as much. Had this been a candidate like Dalton, I wouldn't have thought he needed as much time.


But he's as polished as polished gets other than starting. Pryor isn't. That's what I'm getting at.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 13266
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huff is getting 2mill a year in BAL. Crazy.
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raiders707


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 654
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
Huff is getting 2mill a year in BAL. Crazy.


not bad 2 million a year to miss tackles but they have a hella good front 7
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raiders707 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Huff is getting 2mill a year in BAL. Crazy.


not bad 2 million a year to miss tackles but they have a hella good front 7


He's not going to have to make as many tackles as he did here. And he's going to be able to focus on coverage and making plays more. With a real pass rush. Watch out for him


Last edited by Silver&Black88 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 24271
Location: Crown Town, CA
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
raiders707 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Huff is getting 2mill a year in BAL. Crazy.


not bad 2 million a year to miss tackles but they have a hella good front 7


He's not going to have to make as many tackles as he did there. And he's going to be able to focus on coverage and making plays more. With a real pass rush. Watch out for him


+1. Great place for him to land. Good pass rush with the addition of Doom and Webb returning healthy at CB.
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Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD.
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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1209
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VY is a interesting guy to me. Im not saying he should come in and be given the starting job but I do think he is worth a look for competition and if he has gotten his act together, I would think he should be able to beat out TP in training camp. Another reason I think he shuld be brought in is because his and TP skill set are similar, which I think is major because you don't want to have to alter your playbook mid season if the starter goes down to injury.

His win/loss record is what gives me hope. Yes, its probably blind hope but it does cause me think "what if he's got his mind right?"
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