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BP


Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 2323
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my mind, I weighed the difference between Ej Manuel and Matt Barkley for the Browns and figured Phil Taylor was worth it.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BP wrote:
In my mind, I weighed the difference between Ej Manuel and Matt Barkley for the Browns and figured Phil Taylor was worth it.


Phil Taylor is one of the better young interior DL in the NFL. If they traded him separately, they could get more than you're having them get in that Patriots deal. They're not just going to give away a solid young defensive player to move up one spot in the draft (unless I am misunderstanding the trade)
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TomRalph


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
BP wrote:
In my mind, I weighed the difference between Ej Manuel and Matt Barkley for the Browns and figured Phil Taylor was worth it.


Phil Taylor is one of the better young interior DL in the NFL. If they traded him separately, they could get more than you're having them get in that Patriots deal. They're not just going to give away a solid young defensive player to move up one spot in the draft (unless I am misunderstanding the trade)


That trade:

New England sends: 29th Overall, 91st Overall

Cleveland Browns sends: 30th Overall, 104th Overall, Phil Taylor
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Times Tom Brady has actively ignored throwing to Number 80:
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
BP wrote:
In my mind, I weighed the difference between Ej Manuel and Matt Barkley for the Browns and figured Phil Taylor was worth it.


Phil Taylor is one of the better young interior DL in the NFL. If they traded him separately, they could get more than you're having them get in that Patriots deal. They're not just going to give away a solid young defensive player to move up one spot in the draft (unless I am misunderstanding the trade)


That trade:

New England sends: 29th Overall, 91st Overall

Cleveland Browns sends: 30th Overall, 104th Overall, Phil Taylor


That's what I thought. Makes no sense.
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TomRalph


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
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Location: Revis Island
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
BP wrote:
In my mind, I weighed the difference between Ej Manuel and Matt Barkley for the Browns and figured Phil Taylor was worth it.


Phil Taylor is one of the better young interior DL in the NFL. If they traded him separately, they could get more than you're having them get in that Patriots deal. They're not just going to give away a solid young defensive player to move up one spot in the draft (unless I am misunderstanding the trade)


That trade:

New England sends: 29th Overall, 91st Overall

Cleveland Browns sends: 30th Overall, 104th Overall, Phil Taylor


That's what I thought. Makes no sense.


We make out like bandits. Perhaps if we gave up Ryan Mallett too then maybe (though I'd be less for it)
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Adopt-a-Patriot '14: Danny Amendola
Times Tom Brady has actively ignored throwing to Number 80:
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 24325
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
BP wrote:
In my mind, I weighed the difference between Ej Manuel and Matt Barkley for the Browns and figured Phil Taylor was worth it.


Phil Taylor is one of the better young interior DL in the NFL. If they traded him separately, they could get more than you're having them get in that Patriots deal. They're not just going to give away a solid young defensive player to move up one spot in the draft (unless I am misunderstanding the trade)


That trade:

New England sends: 29th Overall, 91st Overall

Cleveland Browns sends: 30th Overall, 104th Overall, Phil Taylor


That's what I thought. Makes no sense.


We make out like bandits. Perhaps if we gave up Ryan Mallett too then maybe (though I'd be less for it)


I'd do that deal with Mallett for sure. The 29th to the 30th is a wash for the Pats (the Browns aren't taking anyone the Pats would want in that scenario) and Mallett + 91st is worth less than Taylor + 104 IMO. Those picks are pretty interchangeable in terms of chances of NFL success and Taylor is a much better and useful player than Mallett at this point (and long-term for New England).

I still don't know why the Browns would essentially give away one of their best young defensive players though. I could see them moving Rubin, but they'd still get more than 1 pick up in the 1st and a flip of 91 and 104.
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BP


Joined: 14 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BP wrote:
1. KC - Luke Joekel, OT
2. JAC - Ziggy Ansah, DE
3. OAK - Eric Fisher, OT
*4. DET - Dee Milliner, CB
**5. ARI - Lane Johnson, OT
*6. ATL - Desmond Trufant, CB
*7. PHI - Dion Jordan, LB
8. BUF - Tavon Austin, WR
*9. DAL - Cordarrelle Patterson, WR
10. TEN - Star Lotulelei, DT
11. SD - DJ Fluker, OT
12. MIA - Margus Hunt, DE
13. NYJ - Chance Warmack, OG
14. CAR - Sharrif Floyd, DT
15. NO - Geno Smith, QB
16. STL - Kenny Vaccaro, S
17. PIT - Xavier Rhodes, CB
*18. NYJ - Barkevious Mingo, LB
19. NYG - Jonathan Cooper, OG
20. CHI - Arthur Brown, LB
21. CIN - Jarvis Jones, LB
22. STL - Sheldon Richardson, DT
*23. SF - Jonathan Cyprien, S
24. IND - Jamar Taylor, CB
25. MIN - Manti Te'o, LB
26. GB - Tyler Eifert, TE
27. HOU - Datone Jones, DE
28. DEN - Kevin Minter, LB
*29. CLE - EJ Manuel, QB
***30. PHI - Matt Barkley, QB
*31. MIN - DeAndre Hopkins, WR
*32. BUF - Mike Glennon, QB

Patriots Mock:
1st Trade: Cleveland trades down from sixth overall to Atlanta, which is a team seeking a highly sought-after cornerback prospect in this years draft. Wanting to ensure they get EJ Manuel, Cleveland secures a trade with New England long before Philadelphia approaches with interest in the 29th pick.

2nd Trade: Now stationed at the thirtieth overall draft pick formerly held by Atlanta, New England is approached by Philadelphia after missing out on quarterback EJ Manuel to be able to select the next QB on their big board, Matt Barkley of USC. New England makes out like always, with a couple of trade downs and a handful of more value picks.

Day 2:
Second Round: New England acquires Philadelphia's 2014 second round draft pick and their 2013 second rounder (35th overall). In addition, New England acquires defensive tackle from Cleveland along with their fourth round pick (104th overall) and the 30th overall pick in exchange for pick 29.

Pick 35: Tank Carradine, DE
Pick 59: Dwayne Gratz, CB
Pick 91: Marcus Davis, WR

Day 3:

Pick 104: Zaviar Gooden, LB
Pick 226: Levine Toilolo, OT
Pick 235: Brett Maher, K


Edited mock draft to include the new pick the Jets have in the draft and also changed my trades around with the Patriots. My Pats picks are different was well as a result of the change in the trades and draft picks available to make.
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TomRalph


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daniel Jeremiah gave the Patriots Justin Pugh in the NFLN Mock Draft.

JUSTIN PUGH?

O-Line is one of our lowest needs, why would we take a OG in the 1st?

Oh yeah, this is with DeAndre Hopkins, Tank Carradine, Jesse Williams, Jamar Taylor, Desmond Trufant, Johnathan Cyprien all still on the board.

JUSTIN PUGH?!
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Times Tom Brady has actively ignored throwing to Number 80:
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rabbisson


Joined: 26 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great minds think alike I suppose - I also gave the Patriots Pugh in my last mock. He fits EXACTLY what the Patriots like to do on the OL.
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Iggles wrote:
This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's.

I'm a cold-blooded dickens.
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TomRalph


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
Great minds think alike I suppose - I also gave the Patriots Pugh in my last mock. He fits EXACTLY what the Patriots like to do on the OL.


Mankins and Connolly are contracted for the next 2 years at least are they not?

An OL of any sort with our 1st pick will disappoint me greatly.
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Times Tom Brady has actively ignored throwing to Number 80:
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rabbisson


Joined: 26 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Great minds think alike I suppose - I also gave the Patriots Pugh in my last mock. He fits EXACTLY what the Patriots like to do on the OL.


Mankins and Connolly are contracted for the next 2 years at least are they not?

An OL of any sort with our 1st pick will disappoint me greatly.


They are, but Connolly was a major disappointment last year. He also doesn't cost a lot of money and might be more valuable as a swing guard.

The Patriots will pick based on value no matter what. Need comes into play, but value is more important.
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Iggles wrote:
This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's.

I'm a cold-blooded dickens.
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BP


Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 2323
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Great minds think alike I suppose - I also gave the Patriots Pugh in my last mock. He fits EXACTLY what the Patriots like to do on the OL.


Mankins and Connolly are contracted for the next 2 years at least are they not?

An OL of any sort with our 1st pick will disappoint me greatly.


They are, but Connolly was a major disappointment last year. He also doesn't cost a lot of money and might be more valuable as a swing guard.

The Patriots will pick based on value no matter what. Need comes into play, but value is more important.
I see and agree with everything you're saying regarding the Patriots philosophy and Dan Connolly being better served as a swing guard but I like Larry Warford as a potential Patriot. Reminds me a lot of Marshall Yanda who I'd think the Pats would really covet if a player of his caliber were seemingly available in this years draft.
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Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Connolly gets cut next offseason. That would save them $3M against the cap.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

31.5 inch arms, not real strong.

No thanks.

There's no way Pugh represents good value in the top 50 picks. Maybe late round 2. But a position they're set at for next year, have had success with practice squad and no-name guys and is somewhat less valuable than the spots where they have holes? I can't think of too many (somewhat realistic) picks I'd dislike more than Pugh. Maybe Ryan Swope.

Some of these guys, I just don't get the early round love.
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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Location: Boston MA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Scar coaching the line and the success some no names have had under him I think the physical tools are the most important aspect for the Patriots to look at. Nate Solder was one of those guys with physical tools but was raw and needed work on technique
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