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Jrry32 Post FA Mock Draft - 3/25/13
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Flatlyner


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
Did you include Giovanni Bernard because I mention him a few days ago? Wink

I like the mock though, although the idea of a DT early isn't my favorite route. Our Dline is pretty stacked, and didn't William Hayes see some time at DT last year? If so, that would give us a "rotation" of Brockers, Langford, Hayes, and the recently re-signed Jermelle Cudjo.


He did in certain situations but Hayes is a DE. If Brockers were to get hurt, would you feel comfortable with Hayes at DT? I wouldn't.


No, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable if Bradford got injured. Not sure what your point is here.


The point here is that:
A) Langford could be discussed as a cap casualty after 2013
B) Williams is a great talent with huge upside that would only make our team better and due to our current 2 DTs, would have time to develop
C) At least we have another QB behind Bradford

But I'd be perfectly fine if they brought in a guy like Ryan Aplin to compete with Austin Davis for the backup job.


It would be silly to think we won't be adding at least one or two more DT's either in draft or FA. that said, we don't have to take one in the first round to accomplish that. We do have Cudjo backing up DT, which is very similar to Davis backing up Bradford.

Personally, I love Langford and want him starting. He is still young and very skilled. That would mean our 1st round pick Williams likely isn't even starting. Yes, it improves our DT rotatation, but I'd like a guy to start day one if I'm picking him in the 1st round. I just don't see that happening with Williams, which is why I'm not sold on taking him round 1.
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The J.R.S.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
Did you include Giovanni Bernard because I mention him a few days ago? Wink

I like the mock though, although the idea of a DT early isn't my favorite route. Our Dline is pretty stacked, and didn't William Hayes see some time at DT last year? If so, that would give us a "rotation" of Brockers, Langford, Hayes, and the recently re-signed Jermelle Cudjo.


He did in certain situations but Hayes is a DE. If Brockers were to get hurt, would you feel comfortable with Hayes at DT? I wouldn't.


No, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable if Bradford got injured. Not sure what your point is here.


The point here is that:
A) Langford could be discussed as a cap casualty after 2013
B) Williams is a great talent with huge upside that would only make our team better and due to our current 2 DTs, would have time to develop
C) At least we have another QB behind Bradford

But I'd be perfectly fine if they brought in a guy like Ryan Aplin to compete with Austin Davis for the backup job.


Your logic makes very little sense for 2013, and even less sense in 2014. You're basically saying that you would draft him to ride the bench in his first year, and so you could cut a good player the following year.
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jrry32


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Posts: 43730
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The J.R.S. wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
Did you include Giovanni Bernard because I mention him a few days ago? Wink

I like the mock though, although the idea of a DT early isn't my favorite route. Our Dline is pretty stacked, and didn't William Hayes see some time at DT last year? If so, that would give us a "rotation" of Brockers, Langford, Hayes, and the recently re-signed Jermelle Cudjo.


He did in certain situations but Hayes is a DE. If Brockers were to get hurt, would you feel comfortable with Hayes at DT? I wouldn't.


No, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable if Bradford got injured. Not sure what your point is here.


The point here is that:
A) Langford could be discussed as a cap casualty after 2013
B) Williams is a great talent with huge upside that would only make our team better and due to our current 2 DTs, would have time to develop
C) At least we have another QB behind Bradford

But I'd be perfectly fine if they brought in a guy like Ryan Aplin to compete with Austin Davis for the backup job.


Your logic makes very little sense for 2013, and even less sense in 2014. You're basically saying that you would draft him to ride the bench in his first year, and so you could cut a good player the following year.


My logic makes perfect sense. Rather than pay an average DT 6 million in 2014 and 7 million in 2015, we upgrade with a top talent who is available at the pick.

It's no different than drafting Sheldon Richardson at #16. In the mean time, that DT will compete with Langford in 2013 for snaps and worst case scenario, he gets a year to develop in the rotation.

Best case scenario, he has a Michael Brockers like impact and gives us one of the NFL's best rush defenses.

You don't draft to fill needs. You draft to maximize talent. Langford is upgradeable for sure. If there was a better talent/value on the board, I'd take them.

The draft isn't just for 2013. It's for the foreseeable future. I don't care if another player might have a bigger impact next year. I care about who will be the better player down the line. You need to be thinking about the future when picking...not just next year.
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But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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jrry32


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Posts: 43730
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flatlyner wrote:
Personally, I love Langford and want him starting. He is still young and very skilled. That would mean our 1st round pick Williams likely isn't even starting. Yes, it improves our DT rotatation, but I'd like a guy to start day one if I'm picking him in the 1st round. I just don't see that happening with Williams, which is why I'm not sold on taking him round 1.


These are the same things we heard last year about Brockers. I don't care if he starts Day One. I think odds are that he would. Too good of a run stopper not to. But the draft is about maximizing talent, not drafting for early impact. Fans can be far too short-sighted.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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The J.R.S.


Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 3628
Location: Next to Waldo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
Did you include Giovanni Bernard because I mention him a few days ago? Wink

I like the mock though, although the idea of a DT early isn't my favorite route. Our Dline is pretty stacked, and didn't William Hayes see some time at DT last year? If so, that would give us a "rotation" of Brockers, Langford, Hayes, and the recently re-signed Jermelle Cudjo.


He did in certain situations but Hayes is a DE. If Brockers were to get hurt, would you feel comfortable with Hayes at DT? I wouldn't.


No, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable if Bradford got injured. Not sure what your point is here.


The point here is that:
A) Langford could be discussed as a cap casualty after 2013
B) Williams is a great talent with huge upside that would only make our team better and due to our current 2 DTs, would have time to develop
C) At least we have another QB behind Bradford

But I'd be perfectly fine if they brought in a guy like Ryan Aplin to compete with Austin Davis for the backup job.


Your logic makes very little sense for 2013, and even less sense in 2014. You're basically saying that you would draft him to ride the bench in his first year, and so you could cut a good player the following year.


My logic makes perfect sense. Rather than pay an average DT 6 million in 2014 and 7 million in 2015, we upgrade with a top talent who is available at the pick.

It's no different than drafting Sheldon Richardson at #16. In the mean time, that DT will compete with Langford in 2013 for snaps and worst case scenario, he gets a year to develop in the rotation.

Best case scenario, he has a Michael Brockers like impact and gives us one of the NFL's best rush defenses.

You don't draft to fill needs. You draft to maximize talent. Langford is upgradeable for sure. If there was a better talent/value on the board, I'd take them.

The draft isn't just for 2013. It's for the foreseeable future. I don't care if another player might have a bigger impact next year. I care about who will be the better player down the line. You need to be thinking about the future when picking...not just next year.


A top talent? That's laughable. There are at least 5 better prospects at DT than Williams this year. And I have never advocated taking Sheldon Richardson at #16.

Draft strategies are no where near as simple as you framed them above. Yes, you pick the best player available, but to say that you should completely ignore your current roster is ridiculous. I'm not even going to bother arguing about whether Williams would even be considered the BPA at that pick, but I will say that I doubt that ends up being the case.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The J.R.S. wrote:


A top talent? That's laughable. There are at least 5 better prospects at DT than Williams this year. And I have never advocated taking Sheldon Richardson at #16.


A 6'4" 330 DT with freakish strength and 4.9 40 is a top physical talent. He has Haloti Ngata type upside. He's just more raw than Ngata.

Quote:
Draft strategies are no where near as simple as you framed them above. Yes, you pick the best player available, but to say that you should completely ignore your current roster is ridiculous. I'm not even going to bother arguing about whether Williams would even be considered the BPA at that pick, but I will say that I doubt that ends up being the case.


Don't twist what I was saying. I never said anything of the such. However, what you're missing is that we need to think past just 2013 when making picks.

After 2010, how big of a need was CB? It wasn't considered a need at all. Bartell was coming off a strong year and Fletcher was coming off a solid year.

Going into 2013(2 off-seasons later), is either player on our team?

Gotta be thinking ahead. And in thinking ahead, I don't see Langford seeing the end of his contract unless he plays a whole lot better next year.
_________________

The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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The J.R.S.


Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 3628
Location: Next to Waldo
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:


A top talent? That's laughable. There are at least 5 better prospects at DT than Williams this year. And I have never advocated taking Sheldon Richardson at #16.


A 6'4" 330 DT with freakish strength and 4.9 40 is a top physical talent. He has Haloti Ngata type upside. He's just more raw than Ngata.

Quote:
Draft strategies are no where near as simple as you framed them above. Yes, you pick the best player available, but to say that you should completely ignore your current roster is ridiculous. I'm not even going to bother arguing about whether Williams would even be considered the BPA at that pick, but I will say that I doubt that ends up being the case.


Don't twist what I was saying. I never said anything of the such. However, what you're missing is that we need to think past just 2013 when making picks.

After 2010, how big of a need was CB? It wasn't considered a need at all. Bartell was coming off a strong year and Fletcher was coming off a solid year.

Going into 2013(2 off-seasons later), is either player on our team?

Gotta be thinking ahead. And in thinking ahead, I don't see Langford seeing the end of his contract unless he plays a whole lot better next year.


Your use of CB between 2012/2011 is not a fair comparison. We lost double digit guys to injury in 2011, not to mention that we have since gone through a regime change. I was never impressed by Ron Bartell's play. This team was so bad for so long, that mediocre players began getting all pro praise from our fan base.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The J.R.S. wrote:


Your use of CB between 2012/2011 is not a fair comparison. We lost double digit guys to injury in 2011, not to mention that we have since gone through a regime change. I was never impressed by Ron Bartell's play. This team was so bad for so long, that mediocre players began getting all pro praise from our fan base.


Sounds like Langford to me. He's an average DT who will be making a lot of money. Williams has all-world upside and like Brockers, I think he could make a big impact as a rookie with Waufle coaching him.

We simply don't agree about Williams's talent. I think he's worth that pick...just like Richardson is worth taking at #16.

But it depends on how the board falls. That said, Jonathan Cooper would NOT keep me from taking Williams.
_________________

The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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