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chrisororke


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 497
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Quote:
This is just another case of the Ravens taking on recycled scraps


Another case of recycled scraps? Are we talking about like in 2011 when they signed some old guys for their OL, and proceeded to sweep the Steelers? I remember a lot of fans mocking that signing. I mean, an overweight and old LT? Harrison was going to abuse him...the Ravens just swept the Steelers (and dominated them up front in their first match-up), took the division and went to the AFCCG.

Dumervil is 29 and coming off an 11 sack season. In what world is in decline? And apparently the Steelers also showed interest. Ozzie Newsome knows what he's doing, and it's funny to me how Steelers fans always insist the Ravens are making poor choices when the results on the field clearly dictate otherwise.

I'm not bashing Colbert/Tomlin entirely, but they are far too conservative. This recent trend of just bringing back retreads in FA is fairly alarming. I'll cut them slack since apparently they made a run for Long and Dumervil, but for years now this team has put too much emphasis on guys who know the "system." On both sides of the ball.

How many draft choices did it take the Steelers to retool their OL, only for us still to question whether it's fixed? The Ravens went out and signed some bargain basement vets and they got far superior results. Immediately. The only FA addition the Steelers have made worth a damn in years was Flozell Adams...

Quote:

We'll agree to disagree, if the Bronco's wanted him that bad, they had options, including giving him more in way of bonuses.


The way the deal if structured pays Dumervil 8.5 mil this year. His cap hit is only 2.5, but another 6 has to count in another year (per PFT). The way its structured, the Ravens are probably paying him most of it in the first few years.

If the Broncos matched that, they would have ended up with a cap hit for Dumervil of 12 million a year...or his original salary. The Broncos saw the soft market for pass rushers and pinched him. The contract fiasco blew up in their face.


I couldn't agree more with a Raven. Yuck! But we aren't conservative. We are arrogant in thinking we can draft a team, keep it together, not sign FA, and be competitive. That was a great formula Pre 1993 (free agency) and worked wonders in the 1970s but we gotta get with the times. We would've never been able to keep those teams together in the 70s with FA. Like look at this year it's the opposite of what you want. You are cap strapped and can't even OFFER contracts to your young FA bc you've been pushing money down the road for three years to win a championship. The problem is they are too proud to say we aren't good enough to win it all and let people that need to go walk. That's why they bring back the re-treads, band-aids back year after year. They think they can compete and they say they don't ever want to rebuild but sometimes you have to do that. And if its about money, there is a long wait lost for season tickets so they already got paid their 64,500 * ticket prices of revenue. (Not yet, get that in people). So, that should be no concern bc whether they sell out or not they already got paid

As for interest in Long that's just smoke screens. They need to quiet the ravenous fan base for losing our best guys. I laughed out loud when Colbert said in response to losing our young FA you could argue those were guys from an 8-8 football team. LOL. But those were your best guys on an 8-8 football team. What happens when you lose them? I guess we shall see

Dumervil, uhh, maybe had interest maybe not. But they won't sign FA. Look when we made a "splash" Farrior, Clark, and even a Jeff Hartings that put us over the top and helped us win RINGS
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BigSnack


Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 696
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisororke wrote:
Ward4HOF wrote:
I'm definitely not happy with Dumervil headed to the Ravens...he can still be an effective pass rusher and is an upgrade to anything they had on their roster, that's for sure.

That said, I think the price was a bit steep overall...not sure how much is guaranteed, but $35M is more than I'd've wanted the Steelers to pay. Then again, Dumervil or Worilds??? Gottsa give Dumervil the edge overall, even if Worilds is potentially better defending the run.


5 for 35M

7.5M SB
1M base salary yr 1

12M option bonus yr2 ... So if they don't want him after the year they have 6M dead money cap hit, which would be remaining Signing Bonus pro-ration

Yr1 (7.5/5=1.5) salary 1M = 2.5M
Yr2 (7.5/5=1.5) opt bonus (12/4=3) .. Idk salary yr2 but let's say it is 2M 1.5+3+2 =6.5M cap hit yr 2
Yr3 (1.5 SB pro ration) (3M option bonus pro ration) + salary
... And so on


I am actually pleasantly happy that the ravens made this signing. best way to get yourself into more cap trouble is give 4 and 5 year contracts to players in there late 20's or older. Yes elvis would have been an upgrade for us over worlids but im really glad we did not add more cap issues for future seasons. Unless a player is truely a core player then 2nd and 3rd contracts should be paid by other teams. let the skins and eagles of the world pay players what they want.

So the way this contract sounds is either it will be a big cap hit for them next year in dead money or it will be a bad contract in 3 or 4 seasons for them.
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D.Revis24 wrote:
What was his injury last season that forced him to miss 5 games?


Yeast infection.
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chrisororke


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 497
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigSnack wrote:
chrisororke wrote:
Ward4HOF wrote:
I'm definitely not happy with Dumervil headed to the Ravens...he can still be an effective pass rusher and is an upgrade to anything they had on their roster, that's for sure.

That said, I think the price was a bit steep overall...not sure how much is guaranteed, but $35M is more than I'd've wanted the Steelers to pay. Then again, Dumervil or Worilds??? Gottsa give Dumervil the edge overall, even if Worilds is potentially better defending the run.


5 for 35M

7.5M SB
1M base salary yr 1

12M option bonus yr2 ... So if they don't want him after the year they have 6M dead money cap hit, which would be remaining Signing Bonus pro-ration

Yr1 (7.5/5=1.5) salary 1M = 2.5M
Yr2 (7.5/5=1.5) opt bonus (12/4=3) .. Idk salary yr2 but let's say it is 2M 1.5+3+2 =6.5M cap hit yr 2
Yr3 (1.5 SB pro ration) (3M option bonus pro ration) + salary
... And so on


I am actually pleasantly happy that the ravens made this signing. best way to get yourself into more cap trouble is give 4 and 5 year contracts to players in there late 20's or older. Yes elvis would have been an upgrade for us over worlids but im really glad we did not add more cap issues for future seasons. Unless a player is truely a core player then 2nd and 3rd contracts should be paid by other teams. let the skins and eagles of the world pay players what they want.

So the way this contract sounds is either it will be a big cap hit for them next year in dead money or it will be a bad contract in 3 or 4 seasons for them.


The funny thing is Dumervil and Woodley both got 6/61.5M deals and now Dumervil lost that big deal

I expect him to be hungry and get like 12.5 sacks or so. He's gonna be pissed on how this all went down and he wants that 12M paid next March so he has something to prove.

It's actually not that bad of a deal when you do the math. Thats why i praised the deal earlier in the thread. They get him for 9M combined cap hit for the first two years, cap hit was 12M for Denver before he got cut. Then he would have 26M left on the deal and since I don't know the salaries of his deal except for the first year lets just say its 8.66 each year for the last three years. No 10+ cap hit for 35 year old LBs like we stupidly did. That's not bad at all bc he should be playing at an elite level until year 4 or 5. His deal will be up by the time he is 34 so I expect him to retire as a Raven
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Steeler Hitman


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1177
Location: Laurel, MD
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisororke wrote:
Ward4HOF wrote:
I'm definitely not happy with Dumervil headed to the Ravens...he can still be an effective pass rusher and is an upgrade to anything they had on their roster, that's for sure.

That said, I think the price was a bit steep overall...not sure how much is guaranteed, but $35M is more than I'd've wanted the Steelers to pay. Then again, Dumervil or Worilds??? Gottsa give Dumervil the edge overall, even if Worilds is potentially better defending the run.


5 for 35M

7.5M SB
1M base salary yr 1

12M option bonus yr2 ... So if they don't want him after the year they have 6M dead money cap hit, which would be remaining Signing Bonus pro-ration

Yr1 (7.5/5=1.5) salary 1M = 2.5M
Yr2 (7.5/5=1.5) opt bonus (12/4=3) .. Idk salary yr2 but let's say it is 2M 1.5+3+2 =6.5M cap hit yr 2
Yr3 (1.5 SB pro ration) (3M option bonus pro ration) + salary
... And so on


Omar Kahn may not be so dumb. It is smarter for the Steelers to extend Big Ben, Woodley, Ike, Polamalu, Clark, Brown and some of the others that the team has termed as the core group of players as oppossed to signing free agents.

This is the NFL, not Madden 13 for Play Station. You can't simply insert players like game pieces and buy a championship. Players don't always fit a teams scheme or chemistry.

At 29, Dumervil is a great pass rusher, but I think that Kruger may be a more complete football player and may have an even higher ceiling if properly utilized in Cleveland. That's just my opinion. I think it is a good signing, but I agree with ChrisOrorke that the price is a little steep in my opinion. Worilds, Carter, a potential draft choice, or another veteran who may be cut later could all be the answer. Dumervil would have been nice for the pass rush, but not at that price.

I would also be shocked if Harrison came back. I agree with the Urlacher analogy.
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Rayvens52


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 910
Location: Vegas
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
I'm not scared, Dumervil's best days are behind him. If they weren't, the Bronco's would have fought harder for him. This is just another case of the Ravens taking on recycled scraps. They lost 8 of their best players and replaced them with 1 declining pass rusher.
And our team on paper is still much better than the Steelers. Don't hate because now the Steel skirts are having the worst off season lol
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 3658
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And our team on paper is still much better than the Steelers. Don't hate because now the Steel skirts are having the worst off season lol


Ravens fans can talk [inappropriate/removed] all they want, but they were still a 10-6 team last year and split the series with the lone victory a 3 pointer over the Leftwich offense. The Ravens were no juggernaut last year, and still have gaping holes to fill at S and ILB. They need to land two more starters on defense, if not four. And it isn't as if the corner situation is great, either. Dumervil and Suggs and that DL better be dominant next year. I mean it sure as hell isn't as if the elite Joe Flacco has figured out the Steelers defense at this point in his career.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 12410
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rayvens52 wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
I'm not scared, Dumervil's best days are behind him. If they weren't, the Bronco's would have fought harder for him. This is just another case of the Ravens taking on recycled scraps. They lost 8 of their best players and replaced them with 1 declining pass rusher.
And our team on paper is still much better than the Steelers. Don't hate because now the Steel skirts are having the worst off season lol


How the hell is anything I said 'hating'? Still much better than the Steelers? Get the hell out of here with that b.s.
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popie70


Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 1064
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rayvens52 wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
I'm not scared, Dumervil's best days are behind him. If they weren't, the Bronco's would have fought harder for him. This is just another case of the Ravens taking on recycled scraps. They lost 8 of their best players and replaced them with 1 declining pass rusher.
And our team on paper is still much better than the Steelers. Don't hate because now the Steel skirts are having the worst off season lol


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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49580
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rayvens52 wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
I'm not scared, Dumervil's best days are behind him. If they weren't, the Bronco's would have fought harder for him. This is just another case of the Ravens taking on recycled scraps. They lost 8 of their best players and replaced them with 1 declining pass rusher.
And our team on paper is still much better than the Steelers. Don't hate because now the Steel skirts are having the worst off season lol


a) Your team wasnt even better last year. Your overrated Dirt Birds could barely beat a Byron Leftwich led Steelers team, and couldnt beat a Charlie Batch led one. With a healthy Ben, the Ravens lose both games and most likely miss the playoffs. Your fluke team got lucky then got hot in the playoffs. Maybe the worst SB champions in NFL history.

b) You signed your average QB who had a fluke postseason to a deal the Ravens will regret long term, lost the two biggest leaders on your defense, lost 3 of your 4 starting LBs, and both safeties.

c) Dumervil is a good pass rusher, but horrible against the run. Decent signing, but nothing special.

Steelers offseason hasnt been great, but you are quite delusional if you think the Ravens havent had just as bad of an offseason, and if you think your overrated fluke champions are that much better.

Run along troll.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3180
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've said this COUNTLESS times, FAs don't make a championship team. Tell me a FA that was the catalyst for a SB team. The only player I can think of that comes close is Reggie White. I'm sure there may be a couple of others but none come to mind. It takes more than a new addition to hoist the trophy. Besides, the ratbids lost 8 starters. 8>1 last time I checked.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49580
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
I've said this COUNTLESS times, FAs don't make a championship team. Tell me a FA that was the catalyst for a SB team. The only player I can think of that comes close is Reggie White. I'm sure there may be a couple of others but none come to mind. It takes more than a new addition to hoist the trophy. Besides, the ratbids lost 8 starters. 8>1 last time I checked.


Id add Randy Moss.

I know the Pats didnt win the SB, but they were clearly the best team in the league that year.

I agree with your overall point, though.
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popie70


Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 1064
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
I've said this COUNTLESS times, FAs don't make a championship team. Tell me a FA that was the catalyst for a SB team. The only player I can think of that comes close is Reggie White. I'm sure there may be a couple of others but none come to mind. It takes more than a new addition to hoist the trophy. Besides, the ratbids lost 8 starters. 8>1 last time I checked.


Id add Randy Moss.

I know the Pats didnt win the SB, but they were clearly the best team in the league that year.

I agree with your overall point, though.


Yeah I agree 100%. You are both better than I am. I don't think the guy was worth wasting words he is just upset about how his team is imploding.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3180
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

popie70 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
I've said this COUNTLESS times, FAs don't make a championship team. Tell me a FA that was the catalyst for a SB team. The only player I can think of that comes close is Reggie White. I'm sure there may be a couple of others but none come to mind. It takes more than a new addition to hoist the trophy. Besides, the ratbids lost 8 starters. 8>1 last time I checked.


Id add Randy Moss.

I know the Pats didnt win the SB, but they were clearly the best team in the league that year.

I agree with your overall point, though.


Yeah I agree 100%. You are both better than I am. I don't think the guy was worth wasting words he is just upset about how his team is imploding.

I don't mind spending a minute or two to point out stupidity. Though it may take longer for them to comprehend it.
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BigSnack


Joined: 04 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
I've said this COUNTLESS times, FAs don't make a championship team. Tell me a FA that was the catalyst for a SB team. The only player I can think of that comes close is Reggie White. I'm sure there may be a couple of others but none come to mind. It takes more than a new addition to hoist the trophy. Besides, the ratbids lost 8 starters. 8>1 last time I checked.


Id add Randy Moss.

I know the Pats didnt win the SB, but they were clearly the best team in the league that year.

I agree with your overall point, though.


i agree with the point as well but Dieon Sanders says hi
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Dook wrote:
D.Revis24 wrote:
What was his injury last season that forced him to miss 5 games?


Yeast infection.
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The Curtain


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 478
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Rayvens52 wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
I'm not scared, Dumervil's best days are behind him. If they weren't, the Bronco's would have fought harder for him. This is just another case of the Ravens taking on recycled scraps. They lost 8 of their best players and replaced them with 1 declining pass rusher.
And our team on paper is still much better than the Steelers. Don't hate because now the Steel skirts are having the worst off season lol


a) Your team wasnt even better last year. Your overrated Dirt Birds could barely beat a Byron Leftwich led Steelers team, and couldnt beat a Charlie Batch led one. With a healthy Ben, the Ravens lose both games and most likely miss the playoffs. Your fluke team got lucky then got hot in the playoffs. Maybe the worst SB champions in NFL history.

b) You signed your average QB who had a fluke postseason to a deal the Ravens will regret long term, lost the two biggest leaders on your defense, lost 3 of your 4 starting LBs, and both safeties.

c) Dumervil is a good pass rusher, but horrible against the run. Decent signing, but nothing special.

Steelers offseason hasnt been great, but you are quite delusional if you think the Ravens havent had just as bad of an offseason, and if you think your overrated fluke champions are that much better.

Run along troll.


^^^ This. Plus, Suggs was not right after his surgery last year. Maybe he comes back from that.......maybe he doesn't ever get back to his dominating form.

Steelers didn't have a great off season by any means. But the Steelers didn't basically let a SB winning team walk out the door. They aren't being led by a 20 million dollar QB who's never been above middle of the pack aside from a 4 game post season stretch, and his best receiver who's never had 1,000 yards or 10 TDs and is likely just a burner.

Steelers won two SB's, went to three, over the last 10 years. Their SB teams have never fallen apart the way the Ravens immediately did. They know how to put out a competitive team every season, they know who to cut loose. Lets see if the Ravens also do. My own personal opinion? They're not seeing another SB appearance for a realllllly long time.
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