Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Patriots re-sign OT Sebastian Vollmer to 4-year deal
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New England Patriots
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 15860
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Ugh.

Love Vollmer as a player, but I hate tying up that much in him next year
My guess is the first year cap hit is only $3M. We know it's $8.25M in the first year and $7M signing bonus, so that'd be a $1.25M salary and $1.75M of the signing bonus in the first year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25301
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatriotsWin! wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Billy Spikes wrote:
He gets $8.25M in the first year

http://twitter.com/RapSheet/statuses/316304409183268865


Ugh.

Love Vollmer as a player, but I hate tying up that much in him next year


We have the cap space this year. Gives the Pats more flexibility in the coming years when we might be more strapped.


They don't really. An $8.25M cap hit pretty much ends their offseason. Maybe they can squeeze Abraham in, but that's about it.

Way too much money for a RT IMO, regardless of how good Vollmer is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PatriotsWin!


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 18726
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Billy Spikes wrote:
He gets $8.25M in the first year

http://twitter.com/RapSheet/statuses/316304409183268865


Ugh.

Love Vollmer as a player, but I hate tying up that much in him next year


We have the cap space this year. Gives the Pats more flexibility in the coming years when we might be more strapped.


They don't really. An $8.25M cap hit pretty much ends their offseason. Maybe they can squeeze Abraham in, but that's about it.

Way too much money for a RT IMO, regardless of how good Vollmer is.


We have more than enough cap space to add Abraham and a few other guys, including rookies. Last I checked we had around $15 Million in space so this takes us down to around $7 million or so. That's a lot to work with.
_________________

Mack on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 12624
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no way the first year hit is that much. That might be what he's getting, but if they're including the signing bonus in that figure, which is $7 million, that's prorated, as you all well know. I bet his cap hit is more like $3 million this year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dhunt2402


Moderator
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 22796
Location: The District
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
There's no way the first year hit is that much. That might be what he's getting, but if they're including the signing bonus in that figure, which is $7 million, that's prorated, as you all well know. I bet his cap hit is more like $3 million this year.


Yeah I don't get the omg onoz reactions, there's no way he has an 8.75m cap hit on a 4 year $18m contract. Do the math.

I suppose the final number depends on how much of his bonus money is classified as likely or not likely to be earned, but there's no way the cap hit is 8.75
_________________

Deadpulse on the sig


Last edited by dhunt2402 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25301
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatriotsWin! wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Billy Spikes wrote:
He gets $8.25M in the first year

http://twitter.com/RapSheet/statuses/316304409183268865


Ugh.

Love Vollmer as a player, but I hate tying up that much in him next year


We have the cap space this year. Gives the Pats more flexibility in the coming years when we might be more strapped.


They don't really. An $8.25M cap hit pretty much ends their offseason. Maybe they can squeeze Abraham in, but that's about it.

Way too much money for a RT IMO, regardless of how good Vollmer is.


We have more than enough cap space to add Abraham and a few other guys, including rookies. Last I checked we had around $15 Million in space so this takes us down to around $7 million or so. That's a lot to work with.


How much do you think Abraham is going to go for? Rookies and a few more depth pieces will probably take up $4-5M.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 7708
Location: Where the Patriots are
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paying 6 mil a year for a right tackle is fine by me, as long as you're going to use him effectively. Problem is, you use a good right tackle by RUNNING THE DAMN BALL, something we decide not to do every freaking postseason Confused
_________________

Adopt-a-Patriot: Marcus Forston - Practice squad (0 tackles, 0 sacks)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 12624
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Billy Spikes wrote:
He gets $8.25M in the first year

http://twitter.com/RapSheet/statuses/316304409183268865


Ugh.

Love Vollmer as a player, but I hate tying up that much in him next year


We have the cap space this year. Gives the Pats more flexibility in the coming years when we might be more strapped.


They don't really. An $8.25M cap hit pretty much ends their offseason. Maybe they can squeeze Abraham in, but that's about it.

Way too much money for a RT IMO, regardless of how good Vollmer is.


We have more than enough cap space to add Abraham and a few other guys, including rookies. Last I checked we had around $15 Million in space so this takes us down to around $7 million or so. That's a lot to work with.


How much do you think Abraham is going to go for? Rookies and a few more depth pieces will probably take up $4-5M.

Rookies will be dirt cheap because of the small number of picks, and most of the depth pieces I'd expect to be signed are going to either replace or not supersede a member of the top 51, so I really don't see a problem. I think they can fit a veteran on a contract similar to Talib's and still have room for in season signings, rookies and maybe even an extension that doesn't involve the veteran minimum salary for the first year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25301
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Billy Spikes wrote:
He gets $8.25M in the first year

http://twitter.com/RapSheet/statuses/316304409183268865


Ugh.

Love Vollmer as a player, but I hate tying up that much in him next year


We have the cap space this year. Gives the Pats more flexibility in the coming years when we might be more strapped.


They don't really. An $8.25M cap hit pretty much ends their offseason. Maybe they can squeeze Abraham in, but that's about it.

Way too much money for a RT IMO, regardless of how good Vollmer is.


We have more than enough cap space to add Abraham and a few other guys, including rookies. Last I checked we had around $15 Million in space so this takes us down to around $7 million or so. That's a lot to work with.


How much do you think Abraham is going to go for? Rookies and a few more depth pieces will probably take up $4-5M.

Rookies will be dirt cheap because of the small number of picks, and most of the depth pieces I'd expect to be signed are going to either replace or not supersede a member of the top 51, so I really don't see a problem. I think they can fit a veteran on a contract similar to Talib's and still have room for in season signings, rookies and maybe even an extension that doesn't involve the veteran minimum salary for the first year.


Well, I'm expecting the Pats to add at least one top 90 pick via trade (probably moving back from 29). So 3 or 4 guys there is probably a $2-2.5M cap hit.

They need at least one veteran WR, Lloyd cheaply or similar. That's probably no less than $1.5M unless they go multi-year with someone.

Throw in 2 or 3 other guys in the $800-1M range (or $500-$600K cap hit above the 52nd guy) like the Svitek contract and you're really pushing it for Abraham and another player of consequence.

Seems like they're betting heavily on Armstead being pretty good right away and Dennard not going to prison for any significant time (i.e. anything that would impact his camp/season). I'm not sure I particularly like that strategy, but at this point in the offseason I don't see much other than Winfield/Woodson that is worth adding in the secondary (realistically) and they've missed the boat on the few interior linemen out there.

It's probably a better conversation for another thread, but it's been an interesting and subtle shift in philosophy - going from winning Super Bowls with a pretty low-cost scrapheap OL (other than Light) and a highly paid, highly effective DL to a highly paid OL and a mediocre DL. I wonder if they'd have another Lombardi trophy by now if they invested as heavily in either the CB or DL in the late 2000's (around the time Samuel left and Seymour was leaving) as opposed to the OL.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cochise


Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 702
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Richter wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Billy Spikes wrote:
He gets $8.25M in the first year

http://twitter.com/RapSheet/statuses/316304409183268865


Ugh.

Love Vollmer as a player, but I hate tying up that much in him next year


We have the cap space this year. Gives the Pats more flexibility in the coming years when we might be more strapped.


They don't really. An $8.25M cap hit pretty much ends their offseason. Maybe they can squeeze Abraham in, but that's about it.

Way too much money for a RT IMO, regardless of how good Vollmer is.


We have more than enough cap space to add Abraham and a few other guys, including rookies. Last I checked we had around $15 Million in space so this takes us down to around $7 million or so. That's a lot to work with.


How much do you think Abraham is going to go for? Rookies and a few more depth pieces will probably take up $4-5M.

Rookies will be dirt cheap because of the small number of picks, and most of the depth pieces I'd expect to be signed are going to either replace or not supersede a member of the top 51, so I really don't see a problem. I think they can fit a veteran on a contract similar to Talib's and still have room for in season signings, rookies and maybe even an extension that doesn't involve the veteran minimum salary for the first year.


Well, I'm expecting the Pats to add at least one top 90 pick via trade (probably moving back from 29). So 3 or 4 guys there is probably a $2-2.5M cap hit.

They need at least one veteran WR, Lloyd cheaply or similar. That's probably no less than $1.5M unless they go multi-year with someone.

Throw in 2 or 3 other guys in the $800-1M range (or $500-$600K cap hit above the 52nd guy) like the Svitek contract and you're really pushing it for Abraham and another player of consequence.

Seems like they're betting heavily on Armstead being pretty good right away and Dennard not going to prison for any significant time (i.e. anything that would impact his camp/season). I'm not sure I particularly like that strategy, but at this point in the offseason I don't see much other than Winfield/Woodson that is worth adding in the secondary (realistically) and they've missed the boat on the few interior linemen out there.

It's probably a better conversation for another thread, but it's been an interesting and subtle shift in philosophy - going from winning Super Bowls with a pretty low-cost scrapheap OL (other than Light) and a highly paid, highly effective DL to a highly paid OL and a mediocre DL. I wonder if they'd have another Lombardi trophy by now if they invested as heavily in either the CB or DL in the late 2000's (around the time Samuel left and Seymour was leaving) as opposed to the OL.


I love dissenting opinion and debate and am not looking for all sunshine and lollipops but you have been a miserable thing all offseason. Total negativity.

That beng said, I think you are dead on regarding the offensive line. Dante Scarnechia used to do much with little, think Joe Andruzzi, Dan Koppen and Nick Kaczur. But now he has 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder on the line. It is hindsight but we have Too Much money tied up in Logan Mankins. Donald Thomas would look great in that spot at $7.5 million less a year. We do have 2 1st rounders n the DL but the other two spots are relatively weak.

I think the shift in philosophy that you mention coincides with the shift from a heavy run team to a heavy pass team post Corey Dillon and Antowain Smith. When they started throwing more it became more mportant to protect Brady and they started spending more on the OL.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25301
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cochise wrote:

I love dissenting opinion and debate and am not looking for all sunshine and lollipops but you have been a miserable thing all offseason. Total negativity.


I was quite high on Amendola, acknowledged there is untapped upside with Jones, am quite bullish on the idea of Emmanuel Sanders and was probably amongst the happiest with the Arrington deal.

I don't think Adrian Wilson is the solution to the problem at S and Talib is a guy I feel was badly overrated by some here (in terms of his individual performance). I've also been quite consistent since the end of last season that I like Vollmer a lot but would prefer to see that money reinvested in the defense where it is (IMO) more needed.

Maybe you should re-read a lot of my posts this offseason, as your comment seems more like selective memory that anything. By in large, I like the players they've brought in. I don't feel it's enough to improve their fundamental problems (lack of WR depth, lack of pass rush, questionable depth at CB) but I readily admit there are still 5+ months to go.

Also, I'm not a "thing"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 12624
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cochise wrote:
It is hindsight but we have Too Much money tied up in Logan Mankins.

Not for everyone...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25301
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
cochise wrote:
It is hindsight but we have Too Much money tied up in Logan Mankins.

Not for everyone...


In 10 years when we look back on the Belichick era, the Mankins situation is going to always be in the top 2 or 3 strangest personnel moves he made. The whole thing stunk for a year+ and then he ends up getting an (IMO) incredibly rich deal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naq


Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 8446
Location: Westeros
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yo, this fool betta stay healthy. Nobody got time to be paying him that kind of money.
_________________


UniversalAuthor wrote:
Hate being up by 13, sets us up for a 1 point loss.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 12624
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Richter wrote:
cochise wrote:
It is hindsight but we have Too Much money tied up in Logan Mankins.

Not for everyone...


In 10 years when we look back on the Belichick era, the Mankins situation is going to always be in the top 2 or 3 strangest personnel moves he made. The whole thing stunk for a year+ and then he ends up getting an (IMO) incredibly rich deal.

I'm sure you remember how outspoken I was against it. It will always be the strangest move to me, simply for the fact that the value was so poor, which is so unlike the Pats under Belichick. I still can't imagine he thought that a guard was worth that kind of money, and I wonder if Kraft possibly got involved.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New England Patriots All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 5 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group