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Anti-Kenny Vaccaro movement
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 3048
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Anti-Kenny Vaccaro movement Reply with quote

Of the various first round options I've seen floating around for the Steelers, I hate this one the most. As someone who wants one it not two safeties in this draft, I think Vaccaro is going to bust hard.

What I like about Vaccaro:
-Decent in man coverage despite that 4.6 40. I think he may have some ability to play as the nickel guy (or against TE's) and may be adequate in this role, but that's not worth a first round draft choice.

What I don't like about Vaccaro:
-His ability to read and react, probably the most important attribute for a safety. This guy plays dumb, and it carries off the field. He has run his mouth at times. LeBeau already has a 2-3 year internship for defenders. You want a slow witted first round safety with marginal athletic tools?
-- LeBeau counts on his safeties to be smart and the last line of defense. He lets Polamalu gamble because he's a special talent. Vacarro is a guy who routinely bites on playfakes.
-Vacarro whiffs on tackles and takes poor angles. Not once in a while, but frequently.
-Vacarro routinely gets blocked and taken out of plays by WR's. Again, a frequent issue. For a guy with his size, that's kind of alarming.

If I'm judging the safety class, Eric Reid and Shamarko Thomas are the best. Thomas is the closest thing to Polamalu or Bob Sanders I've seen come out, and if the only knock on him is his height, I'd much rather grab him in the 2nd round (I see no way he makes it to the 3rd pick, but if there even better) than have Vacarro at any point. Eric Reid.

Shamarko Thomas is also a guy who has impeccable character, has been described as the leader/brains of his defense (signal caller). He's a gym rat already used to responsibility off it. And if you watch him, he fits what LeBeau want in his safeties to the letter. You put tape of him on, and he is instinctual and his game speed jumps out. He is involved damn near every play and never gives up. Unlike Vacarro, he'll miss a tackle once in a while (a bit like Polamalu), but more than makes up for it.

A lot of teams have been jettisoning veteran safeties this year. I think safeties the 2nd round is going to see a run on safeties, and Shamarko Thomas is a first round talent...especially in a draft class as weak as this one.
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1BackInBlackFan


Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 6646
Location: Because it's the Cup, PA (get well Mal)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What concerns me most about Thomas is if he can handle the punishment of playing the NFL due to his lack of size and aggresiveness. You mention Polamalu and Sanders. Both smaller type of safeties who have been injury-prone due to their all-out style of play. In eight years Sanders played a total of only 50 games. He's not one of my top targets in a deep safety class this year despite being a disruptive player in the secondary. I rather have Reid instead of Thomas if I had to pick. I do like Vacarro but I don't want a safety selected in the first round.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Sanders you also got a DPOY award, which is more than most teams get out of any draft pick. In his career in college, Thomas still only had one known concussion and he missed just two games due to injury. I get the risk, but I think the talent he possesses makes it worthwhile.

I'm not particularly looking to talk about Thomas, though. Vacarro just looks like a poor fit for the Steelers, and I think he'll bust. I see a lot of group think with him, but the guy isn't a playmaker. He racks up a lot of tackles, but badly misses too often. I think his attitude/character and intelligence don't receive enough attention.
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armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dislike him also for the exact reasons.
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chrisororke


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 494
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyprien is BY FAR my favorite safety this draft. I wouldn't mind him at #17. I would love to trade down and get him but with Dallas lurking behind us they might jump on him

Philip Thomas would be an alternative to Cyprien roughly a round later in the draft. Good player. Ran a much better 40 the other day.

I also like Shamarko Thomas A LOT. Concerns about him being too small are valid but he is built. New rules about hitting should help him (both sides of the ball). Earl Thomas seems to be holding up quite nicely. He might be an inch taller. Like Bob Sanders comp

Ray Ray Armstrong might go undrafted and Sean Taylor comps are unfair but at 6'3" and coming from the U they are obviously going to happen. I would take him with our 7th rd draft pick in a heartbeat

...

Hate Vaccaro, Elam. I like my guys better. I really hate Matt Elam. Vaccaro can roam back there so so I guess

Swearinger, Shawn Williams, Rambo are all nothing special. Could wind up as good players but that UGA secondary should've been better if you got hypothetically two NFL caliber safeties with that front 7 in front of them. It just doesn't add up yanno. That's why I would stay away from them. I question Swearingers speed.

I would take two safeties from this draft class in a second. This is the best class I've seen probably in my lifetime. The Berry/Earl Thomas was top heavy and this draft is deep even a guy like Tony Jefferson could fall to the 5th rd and he's very talented. Knowing the Steelers they will take one safety. But why? You are going to need two safeties and you won't find guys like this for quite some time, in terms of value. Yeah you can probably get a 1st rd guy next year or the one after. The Steelers believe in the pipe dream that is Golden. Quite frankly I trust Adrien Robinson more as a prospect than Golden though I am glad they kept Golden on roster. Not saying much I've wanted Mundy gone for 2+ years and I don't like Will Allen much either.

Drafting just one safety is an epic fail
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may just be me, but it seems like when Colbert compliments a position group's strength heading into the draft he ends up not drafting from it. I thought the Steelers would grab a safety in that 2010 class. I think I prefer that group, but we'll see where it goes. Some really good athletes in that class. I've noticed a lot of this class of safeties look good when asked to cover man-up. I end up questioning what's between their ears more than anything.

I would share most of those views on the safety class. Swearinger is not athletic enough to play at the next level, and on top of that he's a bit too emotional. I think the Georgia safeties are both over-aggressive, but I think I'd actually take Rambo of the two. I think both are guys have the athletic tools and could succeed with the right coaching, but those are day three guys to me. I like Elam a bit more than you, but behind Thomas, Cyprien and Reid.

Cyprien is my favorite prospect at FS, but I'm partial to guys like Thomas. Lebeau has too much fun with Polamalu. I think Thomas is the first player I've seen who could legit fill that role once he's gone. Normally I advise against drafting a guy to replace a generational talent like that, but Thomas just jumps off the screen.
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, I'm not a big fan of Vaccaro either, especially in the 1st. This is seemingly a deep S class, and Vacarro hasn't really separated himself from the rest of the pack in any way. To me, he is probably the most "complete" safety in all respects, but to me, that's not enough to draft him a round or two ahead of many of the other prospects.

Of course, if he's selected, I'll hope for the best, but I certainly won't be shocked if he turns out to be nothing special.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad Im not the only one who thinks he is overrated.

I dont think Vacarro is bad by any means, but as Ive stated before...much like last year, the stocks of these safeties are extremely inflated due to the weakness of the draft class...not just as safety, but overall.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vaccaro has the ability to play in the nickle defense, but he reminds me to much of Michael Huff.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he's a bit overrated but still I think he's the best safety in the class. I have no problem passing on him at 17 because I think there are comparable safeties that will be there in round 2 and beyond that are near as good as him as many have said.
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armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
Vaccaro has the ability to play in the nickle defense, but he reminds me to much of Michael Huff.


A slower version but I feel Huff was a better tackler.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate this analysis of Vacarro because it isnt remotely accurate. Have you ever actually watched him play football?

He has a very good understanding of route progression. Reads offenses very well and is a strong physical tackler. He isnt a ball hawk and while he might not have 4.2 speed he is still very agile and athletic.

probably the biggest con about his is that he will need time to polish his skills in the NFL. If he were drafted by us, he would get to do thay behind Ryan Clark and Troy Polamalu
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KJtheWicked


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be perfectly happy with Vaccaro at #17. This is a weak class overall, but a very strong secondary class. I think it's a great year to re-tool the secondary. Vaccaro or Xavier Rhodes in the 1st, and/or Jamar Taylor in the 2nd would be nice.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
I hate this analysis of Vacarro because it isnt remotely accurate. Have you ever actually watched him play football?

He has a very good understanding of route progression. Reads offenses very well and is a strong physical tackler. He isnt a ball hawk and while he might not have 4.2 speed he is still very agile and athletic.

probably the biggest con about his is that he will need time to polish his skills in the NFL. If he were drafted by us, he would get to do thay behind Ryan Clark and Troy Polamalu


We need players that can make an immediate impact.

While we do need safety help, Vacarro isnt far and away the best safety. I think he is the best, but not by as much as some act like he is.

This is a deep safety class. If we are getting someone to sit behind Troy and Clark for a year or two, I dont want them in the first round. Get someone like that in the 3rd, or possibly 2nd depending on who falls.

If we somehow managed to trade down past 25, Id be more open to drafting Vacarro, but Id much rather get a player that can have an immediate impact. In past years, we havent needed it as much. This year, we cant afford to draft projects or players that can help us out right away. If we do...we deserve to lose.

Im all for building long term, but we still have a good team now, and a few pieces can make us contenders. There is no guarantee we will be in the same position 3, 4 or 5 years from now.
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ImissEricGreen


Joined: 13 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here,Here, I agree about Vacarro but steelers have 2 interesting backup FS in Robert Golden & especially Isaish Green. Was outstanding a Fresno St great 40 time & 10 yd split.
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