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Steeler Hitman


Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1179
Location: Laurel, MD
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In response to the proposed trade: It is highly unlikely. I agree that it would be good to see the reasoning behind why the Vikings would give up two #1's for the deal to move up 8 spots and the aditional compensation.

The last time ths Steelers had two #1's, I think they actually pulled a trade with the Vikings. It was 1989 when the Steelers drafted RB Tim Worley and OT Tom Ricketts. d'oh!
The Steelers missed out on Aikman, Sanders, the Thomas', Prime Time, and oh yeah "The Incredible Bulk" Manderich. Shocked Then missed Andre' Bad Moon Rison by two picks to settle on rickity. Horrible.

In defense of the trade the Vikings did take Christian Ponder at #12 a few years ago. Shocked

With the 17 selection of the 2013 NFL draft; The Piistburgh Steelers select: Tavon Austin WR WVU 5'9 170

Austin is a rising player on many drafts boards.

Strengths - - Speed, speed, and more speed
- - Versatility to play in slot, come out of backfield and return
kicks. Haley's type of player.
- - Creates mis-matches wherever he lines up
- - Solid character

Weaknesses - - No size: no height and no weight
- - Doesn't have the size & strength to win one on one battles.
- - Will be challenged if a DB gets a good jam on him.
- - Lack of size & strength may hurt in power run game.

The Steelers would prefer someone with Patterson or Hunter's size, but Patterson is gone and a little too early to pull the trigger on Hunter from a value standpoint. Austin is a disiplined version of Desean Jackson. Count to five look for flags and if Austin isn't tackled add 6 points to the score.

Cash Money Brothers are now known as the Black N Gold Smurfs!
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 3894
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
Thats a ridiculous trade don't care what the point value spread is.

And why exactly would Minnesota make it in the first place,...trades like this without reason are not creditable at all at the very least give good justification as to why the team would be so willing to make such a move.

Its not as if RG3 will be sitting there and a move up from 23 would only cost an additional 3rd and maybe 5th rounder.


Yeah, because if Cooper or if by chance Warmack were to slide, they wouldn't consider moving up...their run game is their bread and butter and their OGs are average at best.

Or how about their LB situation. You, 43M, nor I, have any idea who they might be targetting, but what if a guy like Jones falls to 17? Erin Henderson has experience at MLB or OLB, so they may very well attempt to grab a top talent, if one slides.

And they could use a deep threat, dynamic WR, so if Patterson were to slip...or if they really like Austin, no guarantees he'll make it to 23.

So since you couldn't figure that these were the possibilities on your own, I spelled them out for you. Funny, jebrick gave no explanation for his trades, and that was fine with you both, but somehow mine require explanation?

And before you both say, "well they can just sit there and (insert name) will be there, so why would they move up", again, I point to the fact that neither of you know who will be there and who they are targetting. If you do, then please share.

Did you both predict that the Cowboys would trade up for Claiborne? The Jags for Blackmon? Eagles for Cox? Did you predict DD would slide to 23? No? Didn't think so!

So all this talk of "The Vikings have some holes to fill and it would be stupid of them to make that trade....esepcially considering there likely wont be any talent worth that trade up." Umm, they get 3 picks while we get 2, so if they have holes to fill, how does this not make sense, BTW, none are needed to start this year, outside of possibly WR, whereas we need more starting help then they do...which is why we would forfeit a later pick in order to potentially get two starters, in case you wanted to know my reasoning for why we would trade an extra pick for another 1st rd pick.

And "but the constant trade ups in all these mocks is getting annoying..." then I suggest you buy yourself a blindfold, as maybe that will help you to stop being annoyed.

I'm glad you and 43M think you've got this draft all figured out and any scenario that doesn't fit your expectations is "stupid" or "annoying", but none of these scenarios are impossible, nor are they "stupid". But you both go ahead and continue to pick and choose which posters you require more "explanation" from and which ones are ok to post without, continue to ride your high horses of being what makes sense and what doesn't.

This was meant to be a fun discussion about possibilities and you both just decide to take cheap shots...and "no offense to you Ward" means as much as me saying to one of my colleagues "with all do respect"...you follow it up with derogatory sentiments, that first part don't mean crap.
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MightyJoeYoung


Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2930
Location: Wakefield, England
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ward4HOF wrote:
and "no offense to you Ward" means as much as me saying to one of my colleagues "with all do respect"...you follow it up with derogatory sentiments, that first part don't mean crap.

This is so true.

As was the rest of the post IMO, but this part in particular has always been something that never made sense to me. 'No offence, but (insert deprecating remark)'. It's always made me laugh.

Inb4, 43M saying something along the lines of all my posts being off topic because Ward happened to mention him in his post and so of course, this was a personal attack on my part.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49729
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ward4HOF wrote:
I'm glad you and 43M think you've got this draft all figured out and any scenario that doesn't fit your expectations is "stupid" or "annoying", but none of these scenarios are impossible, nor are they "stupid". But you both go ahead and continue to pick and choose which posters you require more "explanation" from and which ones are ok to post without, continue to ride your high horses of being what makes sense and what doesn't.

This was meant to be a fun discussion about possibilities and you both just decide to take cheap shots...and "no offense to you Ward" means as much as me saying to one of my colleagues "with all do respect"...you follow it up with derogatory sentiments, that first part don't mean crap.


Seriously? Are you kidding me?

The post I made wasnt made just in reference to you, but all of the mock drafts that have had trade ups recently. The part I said I find annoying is the fact that SO MANY PEOPLE ARE DOING IT....not just that you did it.

And where did I say I had the draft figured out? I said a trade up is extremely unlikely, which is the truth whether you like it or not.

Didnt know you were so sensitive Ward.

From now on, Ill be sure to add a teaspoon of sugar to every post aimed at you.



MightyJoeYoung wrote:
Ward4HOF wrote:
and "no offense to you Ward" means as much as me saying to one of my colleagues "with all do respect"...you follow it up with derogatory sentiments, that first part don't mean crap.

This is so true.

As was the rest of the post IMO, but this part in particular has always been something that never made sense to me. 'No offence, but (insert deprecating remark)'. It's always made me laugh.

Inb4, 43M saying something along the lines of all my posts being off topic because Ward happened to mention him in his post and so of course, this was a personal attack on my part.


At least he actually posted on topic.

As usual, you derail the thread by posting something that doesnt have anything to do with the topic. You lack the intelligence and knowledge to actually make a relevant post...so you just leech on to what other people say and make some kind of moronic comment that has absolutely no relevance to the topic at hand.

Its also funny how Im in your head constantly, that you feel the need to say something about me in every thread. But we both know you have nothing else to add to football topic, so I guess thats all you have.

Youre just as sad as your buddy Trollfax.

Go play in the sandbox, Joey. Let the adults talk.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 12815
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright come on folks lets keep it fun and on topic.

Great analysis and picks so far!
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49729
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, back to the topic.

Something a little different....

With the 17th pick, the Steelers select OT Lane Johnson, Oklahoma.


Now, I know its unlikely that he falls, but I do think 1 of the OTs fall further than expected, and he is the most likely. I think if he makes it past the Cardinals, there is a good chance he falls to 17, barring someone trading up.

As Ive stated time and time again, Im not in favor of drafting an OLineman early, but if I did, it would be one of the top OTs. Lane Johnson is a prototypical LT that we desperately lack. I have nightmares thinking about Marcus Gilbert over there, but the thought of a line consisting of..

Lane Johnson - David DeCastro - Mo Pouncey - Ramon Foster - Mike Adams

...gets me very excited.

Honestly, I do like Ward's draft and the players he got more than this pick, but even though this is also unlikely, I think it has a better chance of happening, since a lineman seesm to fall in every draft.
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MightyJoeYoung


Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2930
Location: Wakefield, England
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see you do not understand inb4.

I don't lack the intelligence to comprehend anything that i have experienced so far in my life, I do lack the knowledge on draft prospects though. Nothing about my post was actually moronic. It is weird that people think saying no offence gives them free reign to say whatever they want.

I don't see why human observations are so angering to you. That is what I was providing and knew you would have felt the need to say how it wasn't on topic. Looks like that observation was on point. It also looks like my previous observation of you not being beings to resist was correct, considering I put the inb4 and you still replied to me.

If we're being correct, Ward's post was just as off topic as mine.

I wasn't Troofax's buddy. He amused me. But not as much as you all amused me biting on every little bit of bait he dangled in front of your mouths. I know you can't find a post by me recently, regarding him, saying anything other than telling people not to sink to his level. At the time, I refrained from saying whether I felt he was on a level to which the group could sink to. But, he was evidently a troll, a very dumb troll at that. His style was to merely call others stupid. I prefer a more intelligent style. Inb4, "you're not an intelligent troll hur dur". I don't troll on here, I give my honest opinions, observations and deductions.

I admit initially, I liked Troofax. But that was only because I saw a decent poster in a troll's form (there were a couple of examples of him actually giving insight). It soon became apparent however, that he was just a troll.

Anyway...

DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson.

I love this guy. It is hard to watch him on tape and not see Larry Fitzgerald.

Exceptional hands, good route running, not gonna burn past anyone but you better get low and put your shoulder into the tackle because this kid is strong and will break arm tackles routinely.

I also noticed he has brilliant body control, very good field awareness and a willingness to block.

Those things together with his very good production at a good competition level, more than adequate size and the fact he is currently 20 years old and there is no reason to think he can't be our number 1 for 10+ years.

Oh, and he dominated against LSU
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 3894
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:


The post I made wasnt made just in reference to you, but all of the mock drafts that have had trade ups recently. The part I said I find annoying is the fact that SO MANY PEOPLE ARE DOING IT....not just that you did it.

And where did I say I had the draft figured out? I said a trade up is extremely unlikely, which is the truth whether you like it or not.
Didnt know you were so sensitive Ward.

From now on, Ill be sure to add a teaspoon of sugar to every post aimed at you.


I know, that's why I addressed your comment about all trades considered, not just mine. "but none of these scenarios are impossible, nor are they stupid."

When you make comments like "It wouldnt happen." , it sure gives that impression, and I doubt that I'm alone in that assessment.

Your opinion, doesn't make it "truth"...may be gospel in your mind, but just because 43M believes it, doesn't make it so.

And seriously? I responded in kind to your post. I'm sure you'd prefer I just say "golly gee willickers, you both are right; what was I thinking?"

You don't like be called out, then think before you post "Agreed" to a statement that includes "trades like this without reason are not creditable at all". And your the one who's sensitive to people posting about trades as they are "annoying" you...maybe you need the "teaspoon of sugar" if you are so easily annoyed. Feel free to keep your assessment of my emotional state to yourself. My response has nothing to do with being sensitive...I'm probably one of the most "self-depreciating" posters on here.

This is about the string of posts between you and JPN, not you two personally. If I gave the impression I was overly offended, then forgive me, I could see how a couple of points I made appeared to think I took this personally, but i didn't. It was more to do with this rationale of thinking by you two in these posts then about you both as posters specifically. Those posts came across as fairly arrogant lines of thinking, but I certainly was not personally upset by it.

And I'm still unclear as to how your statement "The Vikings have some holes to fill and it would be stupid of them to make that trade" makes much sense...again, they would get 3 picks in exchange for 2.

Back on topic. As far as Lane Johnson at 17, I wouldn't be upset with that pick at all. If one of the top OTs fell, by chance, it'd be a pretty smart move, as hopefully, we won't be drafting this high very often, and QBs and LTs are two of the most difficult positions to fill, IMO.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nuk Hopkins is the best guarantee of a WR in this draft. His ceiling is not as high as Hunter or Patterson but his floor is much higher than anyone else in the draft. I really like him.
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 3894
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jebrick wrote:
Nuk Hopkins is the best guarantee of a WR in this draft. His ceiling is not as high as Hunter or Patterson but his floor is much higher than anyone else in the draft. I really like him.


I'm starting to think he might actually go in the 1st...he bettered his combine time (4.57) by running a 4.41. That could be considered the difference between a "possession" WR and a #1 WR, depending.

There are a lot of WRs that are vying to be the 3nd WR taken behind Patterson and Austin...

Hunter
Hopkins
Allen
Woods
Patton
Williams
Wheaton

Any one of these guys could conceivably be taken in the 1st depending on what team values as being what fits best for their team. Should be interesting.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never like arguments in mock drafts of " it could never happen" because we do not know. If the Vikings fall in love with a player than they will move up to get them. If the Steelers fell in love with a player they would move up to get him and spend draft picks that do not fit on the Mock Draft trade chart. Polamalu is an excellent example of this.

I picked SanFran because they are a vet team with lots of picks. THey should burn some to get a better player. Does it mean they will? Nope.

So stop complaining about the trade and comment on the pick.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying not to go off-topic but Im gonna break this down between JPN / 43 and Ward. I don't think anything they (JPN / 43) was a personal attack on you Ward. 43 does use a lot of (that won't happen instead of I believe it won't happen) which some people interpret as he's making a fact. It's just the way he writes. You gave a trade, and they gave their thoughts on how likely they thought it was. I didn't see anything wrong with it, but it seemed like you interpreted it different than how they meant it. I think 43 is getting annoyed not because of the actual trades themselves, but moreso people not understanding how difficult it will be to trade, especially in a draft with not much top heavy talent. I think they're interesting to analyze but I can see his side too. Well, enough of that, and not trying to steer away this topic, but those are my thoughts.

Anyhow: I like the Lane Johnson pick, because it means less injuries along our offensive line, because Gilbert won't be the one injuring them!!
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
Trying not to go off-topic but Im gonna break this down between JPN / 43 and Ward. I don't think anything they (JPN / 43) was a personal attack on you Ward. 43 does use a lot of (that won't happen instead of I believe it won't happen) which some people interpret as he's making a fact. It's just the way he writes. You gave a trade, and they gave their thoughts on how likely they thought it was. I didn't see anything wrong with it, but it seemed like you interpreted it different than how they meant it. I think 43 is getting annoyed not because of the actual trades themselves, but moreso people not understanding how difficult it will be to trade, especially in a draft with not much top heavy talent. I think they're interesting to analyze but I can see his side too. Well, enough of that, and not trying to steer away this topic, but those are my thoughts.

Anyhow: I like the Lane Johnson pick, because it means less injuries along our offensive line, because Gilbert won't be the one injuring them!!


Not to drag this out, but I've already stated this wasn't about me feeling it was a personal attack. And that's fine if 43M and JPN wish to talk in absolutes...then they shouldn't mind when their posts are rebuffed.

Simply, if 43M is annoyed, deal with it, everybody saying the same draft scenario over and over is boring, which is why I believe wwhickok started this post.

And if JPN wishes to say that a scenario is ridiculous, than he shouldn't mind me pointing out exactly why it isn't ridiculuous, because he obviously chose not to put much thought into the potential scenario I proposed. I was simply pointing out that not but two posts ahead of mine, a trade was discussed with no amplifying information, yet no derogatory statement about why those trades would take place was made. If JPN is going to be inconsistant with his comments, then I'd be interested in knowing why. He obviously feels others need to explain themselves...he can explain himself.

And I really don't care how hard it is or not to trade in the draft, it happens every year, multiple times, so how is that scenario impossible or not likely? As jebrick stated...if there is a guy the Vikings covet and they believe he won't be there at 23, they'll potentially attempt a trade.

So the point isn't about personal attacks, per se, which you seem to think was the reasoning behind my post, so maybe you aren't understanding my post, so that's why I'm explaining it to you.
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I choose Arthur Brown. Has the size, speed, tenacity, and awareness that I love in an ILB. Attacks the LOS with quickness to beat blocks and can ctack and shed. Hisheight gives him leverage to take on bigger FBs and opposing OL. I compare him to Jon Beason. IImmediately plays Nickel and supplants Foote by week 5.
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