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T.I.R.T. 5.0 - O/U how many wins the Vikings have?
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JBURGE25


Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 18592
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duff Man wrote:
KManX89 wrote:

Also, it should be worth noting that every team in the NFC North filled their major weakness(es) in the offseason (draft or free agency): Bears with their offensive line, depth at WR, Lions with their secondary and running game, Vikes with WR depth and a hole at DT opposite Kevin Williams, us with our DL and running game, so surmise it to say that anything can happen. It should be an exciting year for NFC North fans next year.


You guys upgraded your O-line? Very Happy


I agree and have said the same thing, though. The North is gonna be an interesting division to watch this year.


Yes. We moved the more capable Bulaga to the left, which I would say is an upgrade. We also improved our backs, which improves our running game. Ignorance is bliss I suppose
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Duff Man


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JBURGE25 wrote:
Duff Man wrote:
KManX89 wrote:

Also, it should be worth noting that every team in the NFC North filled their major weakness(es) in the offseason (draft or free agency): Bears with their offensive line, depth at WR, Lions with their secondary and running game, Vikes with WR depth and a hole at DT opposite Kevin Williams, us with our DL and running game, so surmise it to say that anything can happen. It should be an exciting year for NFC North fans next year.


You guys upgraded your O-line? Very Happy


I agree and have said the same thing, though. The North is gonna be an interesting division to watch this year.


Yes. We moved the more capable Bulaga to the left, which I would say is an upgrade. We also improved our backs, which improves our running game. Ignorance is bliss I suppose


So moving one guy across to the left side is supposed to alleviate all of the problems your O-line had last year ?

I don't care how many RB's you drafted, they're not going anywhere w/o a solid O line. Just ask Trent Richardson.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duff Man wrote:
So moving one guy across to the left side is supposed to alleviate all of the problems your O-line had last year ?


It should help tremendously when you don't have arguably the leagues worst LT lining up for nearly every snap there giving up pressures left and right. Bryan Bulaga is considerably more consistent than Newhouse. And you have to remember, an offensive line is only as good as it's weakest link. So replacing Bulaga with Newhouse hopefully should help fix that issue. Not to mention, just getting healthy is the biggest thing. And then not playing musical chairs at center should do wonders.


Duff Man wrote:
I don't care how many RB's you drafted, they're not going anywhere w/o a solid O line. Just ask Trent Richardson.


And despite having no offensive line (aside from Joe Thomas), he still managed to run for almost 1,000 yards and had 11 rushing touchdowns. That despite having virtually no offensive line. And I'm not disagreeing that running backs aren't as productive without a great offensive line (sans Adrian Peterson), but let's not pretend like the improvement the Packers made at running back wasn't tremendous. The only back that has really show anything was James Starks, and you can't count on him to stay healthy.
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Nzd07


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Alex Mack? Mitchell Schwartz?

oh well... ignorance is a bliss I guess Wink
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Polaris


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love these Viking fans. A few years ago it was just "Gosh, we just want to have interesting football disucssions with Packer fans." Now the tune has changed.

Yes, our coaches are idiots and moving people around on the line will accomplish nothing, or next to nothing. Rolling Eyes

How many games will the Vikings win? Fewer than last year, when just about everything worked out for them.
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ugLymayNe


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duff Man wrote:
So moving one guy across to the left side is supposed to alleviate all of the problems your O-line had last year ?


#1) Bulaga was on IR for quite some time.

#2) Jeff Saturday was a horrible, horrible replacement for Wells. As soon as EDS was at center with Lang back in at RG our offensive line allowed very little pressure up the middle.

#3) Our weaklink(Newhouse, or anyone at the opposite tackle of Bulaga, really) will be on the right side now versus the left. That is an improvement in itself.

I would talk about your own offensive line before you come in here and trash ours. We have better guards and when Bulaga played RT even Viking fans said he was better than Loadholt.

You guys try to talk about the Packers like they have a bunch of weaknesses(they do have some) but look at your own team....

Secondary-Harrison Smith is a good young safety, Cook is a mediocre CB. You are banking on a rookie across from him at the other starting CB spot and you have a well below average nickel. Good luck covering James Jones, Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb.

LB- Greenway is decent, but the rest of the group leaves a lot to be desired. The Packers wouldn't have cut Bishop if he could have started on our team, you know, the defense Viking fans laugh at routinely. Have fun with that one.

DL- Allen and Williams were great players, but Kevin has slowed down obviously. Allen can't do it on his own(IMO) at this stage and you have a role player across from him in Robison. Banking on an overrated rookie to rush the QB on third downs?

OL- Sullivan is a very good young center and Kalil had a good rookie year, but the rest of the offensive line is the definition of mediocre. Loadholt fits your team well because of his run blocking but he gets Ponder killed some times.

WR/TE- You have Jennings and Rudolph as the only guys I would want starting. Simpson and Wright are depth players only. Patterson has no clue how to run routes and is sloppy, routinely body catching balls.

Oh then you have Adrian Peterson as IMO the only strength about your team.


Really the running game is the only thing a Viking fan can criticize about the Packers. They are better than the Vikings in every other area. Kiss the ring.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugLymayNe wrote:
Duff Man wrote:
So moving one guy across to the left side is supposed to alleviate all of the problems your O-line had last year ?


#1) Bulaga was on IR for quite some time.

#2) Jeff Saturday was a horrible, horrible replacement for Wells. As soon as EDS was at center with Lang back in at RG our offensive line allowed very little pressure up the middle.

#3) Our weaklink(Newhouse, or anyone at the opposite tackle of Bulaga, really) will be on the right side now versus the left. That is an improvement in itself.

I would talk about your own offensive line before you come in here and trash ours. We have better guards and when Bulaga played RT even Viking fans said he was better than Loadholt.

You guys try to talk about the Packers like they have a bunch of weaknesses(they do have some) but look at your own team....

Secondary-Harrison Smith is a good young safety, Cook is a mediocre CB. You are banking on a rookie across from him at the other starting CB spot and you have a well below average nickel. Good luck covering James Jones, Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb.

LB- Greenway is decent, but the rest of the group leaves a lot to be desired. The Packers wouldn't have cut Bishop if he could have started on our team, you know, the defense Viking fans laugh at routinely. Have fun with that one.

DL- Allen and Williams were great players, but Kevin has slowed down obviously. Allen can't do it on his own(IMO) at this stage and you have a role player across from him in Robison. Banking on an overrated rookie to rush the QB on third downs?

OL- Sullivan is a very good young center and Kalil had a good rookie year, but the rest of the offensive line is the definition of mediocre. Loadholt fits your team well because of his run blocking but he gets Ponder killed some times.

WR/TE- You have Jennings and Rudolph as the only guys I would want starting. Simpson and Wright are depth players only. Patterson has no clue how to run routes and is sloppy, routinely body catching balls.

Oh then you have Adrian Peterson as IMO the only strength about your team.


Really the running game is the only thing a Viking fan can criticize about the Packers. They are better than the Vikings in every other area. Kiss the ring.
Only thing I would change is you calling Kevin Williams great and John Sullivan will be 28 before the season and is coming off of micro-fracture surgery. He has pretty much peaked as a player IMO, not like he is a young improving player anymore.
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Duff Man


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polaris wrote:
Love these Viking fans. A few years ago it was just "Gosh, we just want to have interesting football disucssions with Packer fans." Now the tune has changed.

Yes, our coaches are idiots and moving people around on the line will accomplish nothing, or next to nothing. Rolling Eyes

How many games will the Vikings win? Fewer than last year, when just about everything worked out for them.


Relax.

I made one comment on your Offensive line. I never said anything about your coaches being idiots or anything even close to that (don't know where you pulled that from), as I actually believe that was a good move. Everything will be ok, just grab a juice box from the fridge and calm down for a second.

ugLymayNe wrote:
Duff Man wrote:
So moving one guy across to the left side is supposed to alleviate all of the problems your O-line had last year ?


#1) Bulaga was on IR for quite some time.

#2) Jeff Saturday was a horrible, horrible replacement for Wells. As soon as EDS was at center with Lang back in at RG our offensive line allowed very little pressure up the middle.

#3) Our weaklink(Newhouse, or anyone at the opposite tackle of Bulaga, really) will be on the right side now versus the left. That is an improvement in itself.

I would talk about your own offensive line before you come in here and trash ours. We have better guards and when Bulaga played RT even Viking fans said he was better than Loadholt.

You guys try to talk about the Packers like they have a bunch of weaknesses(they do have some) but look at your own team....

Secondary-Harrison Smith is a good young safety, Cook is a mediocre CB. You are banking on a rookie across from him at the other starting CB spot and you have a well below average nickel. Good luck covering James Jones, Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb.

LB- Greenway is decent, but the rest of the group leaves a lot to be desired. The Packers wouldn't have cut Bishop if he could have started on our team, you know, the defense Viking fans laugh at routinely. Have fun with that one.

DL- Allen and Williams were great players, but Kevin has slowed down obviously. Allen can't do it on his own(IMO) at this stage and you have a role player across from him in Robison. Banking on an overrated rookie to rush the QB on third downs?

OL- Sullivan is a very good young center and Kalil had a good rookie year, but the rest of the offensive line is the definition of mediocre. Loadholt fits your team well because of his run blocking but he gets Ponder killed some times.

WR/TE- You have Jennings and Rudolph as the only guys I would want starting. Simpson and Wright are depth players only. Patterson has no clue how to run routes and is sloppy, routinely body catching balls.

Oh then you have Adrian Peterson as IMO the only strength about your team.


Really the running game is the only thing a Viking fan can criticize about the Packers. They are better than the Vikings in every other area. Kiss the ring.


Wow, no need to write a novel. All I commented on was the fact that your O-line really didn't improve as much as it should have. I understand moving Bulaga to the left side is going to help protect Rodgers' blind side, and that's a great move.

Now, how exactly did you guys improve your run blocking? As I said before, no running back is going anywhere w/o some solid road-graders paving the way. Starting the same 5 guys as last year (regardless of where they're lining up now) shouldn't bode well for your guys' run blocking.

And did I really try to insinuate that the "Packers have a bunch of weaknesses"? I made two comments on your offensive line. YOU on the other hand, wrote a cute little 1 page essay on why the Vikings suck, lol.

Oh what's that, you don't think we have a great O-line? Mr. 2097 yards says, "hi". How many rushing yards did you fellars have last year, and how many times did Rodgers get sacked? ...and you wanna start trying to discrediting the Vikings' o-line? Lol

And don't give me that Desmond Bishop crap, you guys just didn't want to pay him. Or should I say: you couldn't have payed him, given the fact that Hawk and Jones are bringing in 4mil each this year.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duff Man wrote:
Polaris wrote:
Love these Viking fans. A few years ago it was just "Gosh, we just want to have interesting football disucssions with Packer fans." Now the tune has changed.

Yes, our coaches are idiots and moving people around on the line will accomplish nothing, or next to nothing. Rolling Eyes

How many games will the Vikings win? Fewer than last year, when just about everything worked out for them.


Relax.

I made one comment on your Offensive line. I never said anything about your coaches being idiots or anything even close to that (don't know where you pulled that from), as I actually believe that was a good move. Everything will be ok, just grab a juice box from the fridge and calm down for a second.

ugLymayNe wrote:
Duff Man wrote:
So moving one guy across to the left side is supposed to alleviate all of the problems your O-line had last year ?


#1) Bulaga was on IR for quite some time.

#2) Jeff Saturday was a horrible, horrible replacement for Wells. As soon as EDS was at center with Lang back in at RG our offensive line allowed very little pressure up the middle.

#3) Our weaklink(Newhouse, or anyone at the opposite tackle of Bulaga, really) will be on the right side now versus the left. That is an improvement in itself.

I would talk about your own offensive line before you come in here and trash ours. We have better guards and when Bulaga played RT even Viking fans said he was better than Loadholt.

You guys try to talk about the Packers like they have a bunch of weaknesses(they do have some) but look at your own team....

Secondary-Harrison Smith is a good young safety, Cook is a mediocre CB. You are banking on a rookie across from him at the other starting CB spot and you have a well below average nickel. Good luck covering James Jones, Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb.

LB- Greenway is decent, but the rest of the group leaves a lot to be desired. The Packers wouldn't have cut Bishop if he could have started on our team, you know, the defense Viking fans laugh at routinely. Have fun with that one.

DL- Allen and Williams were great players, but Kevin has slowed down obviously. Allen can't do it on his own(IMO) at this stage and you have a role player across from him in Robison. Banking on an overrated rookie to rush the QB on third downs?

OL- Sullivan is a very good young center and Kalil had a good rookie year, but the rest of the offensive line is the definition of mediocre. Loadholt fits your team well because of his run blocking but he gets Ponder killed some times.

WR/TE- You have Jennings and Rudolph as the only guys I would want starting. Simpson and Wright are depth players only. Patterson has no clue how to run routes and is sloppy, routinely body catching balls.

Oh then you have Adrian Peterson as IMO the only strength about your team.


Really the running game is the only thing a Viking fan can criticize about the Packers. They are better than the Vikings in every other area. Kiss the ring.


Wow, no need to write a novel. All I commented on was the fact that your O-line really didn't improve as much as it should have. I understand moving Bulaga to the left side is going to help protect Rodgers' blind side, and that's a great move.

Now, how exactly did you guys improve your run blocking? As I said before, no running back is going anywhere w/o some solid road-graders paving the way. Starting the same 5 guys as last year (regardless of where they're lining up now) shouldn't bode well for your guys' run blocking.

And did I really try to insinuate that the "Packers have a bunch of weaknesses"? I made two comments on your offensive line. YOU on the other hand, wrote a cute little 1 page essay on why the Vikings suck, lol.

Oh what's that, you don't think we have a great O-line? Mr. 2097 yards says, "hi". How many rushing yards did you fellars have last year, and how many times did Rodgers get sacked? ...and you wanna start trying to discrediting the Vikings' o-line? Lol

And don't give me that Desmond Bishop crap, you guys just didn't want to pay him. Or should I say: you couldn't have payed him, given the fact that Hawk and Jones are bringing in 4mil each this year.
Well you guys played against Don Barclay all 3 times so it wont be the same 5 guys. Plus no running back is going anywhere? So how did DuJuan Harris average over 4.5 YPC??? He ran the ball pretty well against the Vikings in the dome and tore them up in the short passing game in the playoffs.

Edit- I didn't even realize how ignorant the last part of this post is. We didn't want to pay Bishop? Then why are we paying Brad Jones even more?? Laughing We were fine with his salary, he just isn't what he was in 2010. And how many passing yards do "you fellars have?" Oh that's right, your QB sucks, this year should be real fun!
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ugLymayNe


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duff Man wrote:
Oh what's that, you don't think we have a great O-line? Mr. 2097 yards says, "hi". How many rushing yards did you fellars have last year, and how many times did Rodgers get sacked? ...and you wanna start trying to discrediting the Vikings' o-line? Lol


How many sacks does Aaron Rodgers take to avoid Brett Favreing it? Take a guess...

If you watched the Packers last year enough, you'd know that putting in EDS at center solidified the middle of the offensive line. You would also know the pressure was coming off the edges because we had an undrafted rookie starting at RT due to injuries and the worst LT in the league. Bulaga is a capable, pro bowl tackle and will be playing on the left side this year. Much better in pass pro than Newhouse and is quite a bit better run blocking as well. That is an improvement. Evan Dietrich-Smith is an improvement run blocking over Jeff Saturday. Our guards are good enough, and our only weakness is at RT.

Do you think Johnson and Fusco are better than Sitton and Lang? Laughing


Duff Man wrote:
And don't give me that Desmond Bishop crap, you guys just didn't want to pay him. Or should I say: you couldn't have payed him, given the fact that Hawk and Jones are bringing in 4mil each this year.


They could have easily let Jones walk and kept Bishop instead. They also could have cut Hawk instead. Guess what? They didn't because they are both better than Bishop in their eyes. I think I'd trust people that work in an NFL front office a little bit more than you when it comes to that one.


How many playoff wins do "you fellars have" without Favre? Ohhhhhh, thats right.
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JBURGE25


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah what the hell :S How is putting Bulaga to LT and moving the weaker tackle to the right NOT an improvement? EDS starting his first full year now, over the crap Saturday was. Give me a break. It didn't improve as much as it should? Not every team can improve every facet of their team every year Laughing
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugLymayNe wrote:


#1) Bulaga was on IR for quite some time.

#2) Jeff Saturday was a horrible, horrible replacement for Wells. As soon as EDS was at center with Lang back in at RG our offensive line allowed very little pressure up the middle.

#3) Our weaklink(Newhouse, or anyone at the opposite tackle of Bulaga, really) will be on the right side now versus the left. That is an improvement in itself.


I dont mind the move for GB, switching sides. It is very logical, but Newhouse is still probably going to be a weakness on the right side. Its not a big issue, I think the Packers have 3 of 5 spots on the line locked down. Center and RT still has some uncertainty.

Quote:
I would talk about your own offensive line before you come in here and trash ours. We have better guards and when Bulaga played RT even Viking fans said he was better than Loadholt.


Is this necessary? I dont recall anyone trashing the Packers line other then questioning if the switch will be effective. Its a reasonable concern. I think Bulaga will be fine at LT, but its reasonable to be skeptical.

Loadholt is a much better run blocker then Bulaga, and most of Peterson's big runs seemed to come off tackle. For the Vikes, Loadholt is a better RT. For the Packers, Bulaga is the better RT.

Quote:
You guys try to talk about the Packers like they have a bunch of weaknesses(they do have some) but look at your own team....


Hyperbole.

I see one criticism of the Oline.

Quote:
Secondary-Harrison Smith is a good young safety, Cook is a mediocre CB. You are banking on a rookie across from him at the other starting CB spot and you have a well below average nickel. Good luck covering James Jones, Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb.


Cook is a good CB, when on the field. I have faith in Rhodes as well, and I dont buy the rookie argument as a means to knock him. Look how many rookie CBs performed well last year. For the CB position, I believe its one of the most immediate impact positions given how much of the position relies on athleticism. Technique will come, but I believe that Rhodes faired highly in terms of technique. Especially in a press scheme that the Vikes will run. I like the combo of Smith, Cook and Rhodes, it should be a good group for MN this year. Sanford and Robinson (NCB) are still iffy, so we will wait and see. Its definitely a young group.

Quote:
LB- Greenway is decent, but the rest of the group leaves a lot to be desired. The Packers wouldn't have cut Bishop if he could have started on our team, you know, the defense Viking fans laugh at routinely. Have fun with that one.


Greenway is decent? Where have you been? He is a top 3 4-3 OLB. Sure its not an impact position, but you're selling him short by calling him "decent".

What "Vikings fans" are laughing at your defense? Is this just more hyperbole from you? If you have a problem with one or two fans, dont group us all together. Wouldnt you appreciate the same? I actually dont think the Packers defense is that bad, I'd put them in the top 15. I think they fit the Packers offense perfectly as a group that does a good job creating turnovers.

Quote:
DL- Allen and Williams were great players, but Kevin has slowed down obviously. Allen can't do it on his own(IMO) at this stage and you have a role player across from him in Robison. Banking on an overrated rookie to rush the QB on third downs?


Allen is still a great player, and he played most of the year on a torn labrum. He is also growing out his mullet, so he should be good for 14-18 sacks. Dont worry about him "holding his own".

You're clearly misinformed about Brian Robison. He is not just a role player as you put. He is a good run defender, actually he scored as one of the better run defenders at the DE position. He is also a very good pass rusher, probably not a 10+ sack guy but a guy who can give you good pressures and 6-8 sacks per year. Robison is exceptional at swatting passes, he had 7 deflections last year.

Everson Griffen is that wild card in the group and he too is good for 6-8 sacks per year from the DT and DE positions.

Kevin Williams sucks at this point in his career, but the hope would be for Sharrif Floyd to make some noise as a rookie. DT is one of the harder positions it seems to transition to, so I do agree that the DT spot is a cause for concern.

Quote:
OL- Sullivan is a very good young center and Kalil had a good rookie year, but the rest of the offensive line is the definition of mediocre. Loadholt fits your team well because of his run blocking but he gets Ponder killed some times.


Kalil, Sullivan and Loadholt are cornerstone type pieces for this team. Guard play could be better in terms of pass protection. The Vikes Guards are excellent run blockers, and this is hardly deniable given the year Peterson had.

Quote:
WR/TE- You have Jennings and Rudolph as the only guys I would want starting. Simpson and Wright are depth players only. Patterson has no clue how to run routes and is sloppy, routinely body catching balls.


Dont sleep on Jarius Wright as a breakout player this year. He averaged 14.5 per catch from the slot, and seems to have a knack for getting down the field behind the Safety and making a big catch. I like his future at the slot position.

I agree with your assessment of Rudolph, Jennings and Simpson. I dont think its fair to judge Patterson yet until we actually see him completely devoted to football. The Vikes got excellent use out of Percy Harvin over the years, and he wasnt ever known for being a reliable route runner. The Vikes will probably manufacture touches for Patterson, as they did for Harvin last year, until he becomes a more accomplished route runner.

Quote:
Oh then you have Adrian Peterson as IMO the only strength about your team.


Good one. The Vikes are stronger in several areas then the Packers (RB, TE, LT, C, Pass Rushers, FS, Special Teams). I dont intend to compare the Vikes to the Packers since its completely unfair at this point in time. The Vikes completely gutted its roster in 2010/2011 to make way for a youth movement. Its really not a fair comparison at this point in time since the Packers have really been building this thing since 2006.

Quote:
Really the running game is the only thing a Viking fan can criticize about the Packers. They are better than the Vikings in every other area. Kiss the ring.


Again, the Vikes have a better defense and special teams and they will have a better defense and special teams in 2013. The only advantage the Packers have over the Vikings is at QB and passing game, and that is a SIGNIFICANT advantage and one that obviously better suits today's NFL.

Don't pretend you did anything to earn that ring, Wink we can have a reasonable discussion about football with resorting to pompous remarks.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
I dont mind the move for GB, switching sides. It is very logical, but Newhouse is still probably going to be a weakness on the right side. Its not a big issue, I think the Packers have 3 of 5 spots on the line locked down. Center and RT still has some uncertainty.


There's no doubting that Newhouse wouldn't be a liability on the right side, but it's better to have a turnstile on the right side as opposed to your left side for the simple fact you prefer to keep the blindside of your quarterback clean. It's no coincidence that left tackles are at a higher premium in the NFL. And center really isn't an issue unless Evan Dietrich-Smith regresses, which is something I don't think will happen. The play from the offensive line went up when he replaced Jeff Saturday.


vikingsrule wrote:
Loadholt is a much better run blocker then Bulaga, and most of Peterson's big runs seemed to come off tackle. For the Vikes, Loadholt is a better RT. For the Packers, Bulaga is the better RT.


While I do agree that Loadholt is probably better for what the Vikings want to do, do you not think Bryan Bulaga is the better RT when healthy? He was arguably a top 2 RT two years ago. Unfortunately, he struggled to stay healthy and didn't play all that well this past season. Now, assuming he stays healthy there is no reason to think he couldn't get back to his 2011 play.


vikingsrule wrote:
Again, the Vikes have a better defense and special teams and they will have a better defense and special teams in 2013. The only advantage the Packers have over the Vikings is at QB and passing game, and that is a SIGNIFICANT advantage and one that obviously better suits today's NFL.


On what basis do the Vikings have a better defense than the Packers? The Packers were ranked slightly better in terms of opponents PPG, slightly better in takeaways, and slightly better in terms of sacks. At best, the Vikings are equal to the Packers, but it's probably a slight lean towards the Packers. Although, improvements from players could go a long ways towards changing it but based on what we know the Packers are a slightly (and I mean that by the smallest of margins) better defense. And while you'll likely point to adding Sharrif Floyd and Xavier Rhodes towards an improved Vikings defense, I'd point to a healthy Nick Perry, Tramon Williams, and Mike Neal as to why the Packers defense should improve as well.

And sans the kickers, I think their special teams are pretty darn similar. The Vikings get a bit more yardage. But much like the defense, I'd give the Vikings a slight edge (sans the kicker).
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I run into the half Viking fan half Steeler fan waaaaay too much but it seems Viking fans in NFL Gen/everywhere that I talk to seem to talk about the Packers as if they didn't win the division the last two years. Anyways, first....

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Center and RT still has some uncertainty.


I think EDS proved that he can play last year. Is he great? No, but he understands the offense and can make the calls at the LOS while not being a liability in either phase of the game. He is actually the best run blocking center we had in a while(Does Spitz even count?). RT is uncertain for sure but it is a helluva lot better than LT being uncertain. I don't think Newhouse is going to start at RT - I think it will come down to either Barclay or Bakhtiari. Barclay is a lot like Loadholt where he is a better run blocker than pass blocker but Bak has potential to be good at both. If Barclay does start that tells me the Packers are going to be faaar more balanced than ever before under the McCarthy era.

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Greenway is decent? Where have you been? He is a top 3 4-3 OLB. Sure its not an impact position, but you're selling him short by calling him "decent".


Did you guys lobb LB's into one position or did you vote separately for ILB and OLB? Because I see you guys have Hawk over Greenway and Hawk is at best decent. Greenway is definitely not a liability in the same way Hawk is.

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I actually dont think the Packers defense is that bad, I'd put them in the top 15. I think they fit the Packers offense perfectly as a group that does a good job creating turnovers.


I hope they revert back to forcing turnovers. Last year that was one of their weaknesses IMO(compared to 2009-2011).

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The Vikes are stronger in several areas then the Packers (RB, TE, LT, C, Pass Rushers, FS, Special Teams).


Special teams on a whole? Really the only spot the Vikings are really better are kicker, I guess. Crosby was garbage last year. I see RB, TE, C as where the Vikings are clearly better but I was lobbing the entire running game in as a whole. I think the Packers are a better pass blocking team but their sack #'s are increased because of Rodgers being Rodgers, horrid play from Saturday and injuries.

Quote:
Don't pretend you did anything to earn that ring

ohhh I was there....Laughing



edit- Oh hi CWood. #uglyistooslow
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Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 52626
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugLymayNe wrote:


Did you guys lobb LB's into one position or did you vote separately for ILB and OLB? Because I see you guys have Hawk over Greenway and Hawk is at best decent. Greenway is definitely not a liability in the same way Hawk is.


Precisely. Greenway is an OLB and was voted against Briggs and Matthews. Not Hawk.

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Special teams on a whole? Really the only spot the Vikings are really better are kicker, I guess. Crosby was garbage last year.


the team is confident in Locke and I wouldnt be surprised if he has a big year. The guy has a big leg supposedly, so we will see. Walsh was amazing last year, money from 50+ and consistently punched it through the back of the endzone on kickoffs. Patterson will be the KR, and while he is raw as a WR, there is no denying his ability with the ball in his hands. The guy is electric. He should be on par with Cobb as a KR.

Quote:
I see RB, TE, C as where the Vikings are clearly better but I was lobbing the entire running game in as a whole. I think the Packers are a better pass blocking team but their sack #'s are increased because of Rodgers being Rodgers, horrid play from Saturday and injuries.


I give the edge to the Packers passing game obviously. All things included: receivers, protection and QB. The Vikes Oline isnt that great in the interior in terms of holding a pocket. Loadholt still struggles with speed rushers. Obviously the Vikes receivers arent on par with the Packers, and I dont think any Vikings fan will argue Ponder > Rodgers.

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ohhh I was there....Laughing


I'm sure you were Laughing
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