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T.I.R.T. 5.0 - O/U how many wins the Vikings have?
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HokieHigh


Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 2114
Location: Blacksburg
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Before you go calling me a homer:

- We have a below average edge rusher in Peppers, and a stud in Matthews

- We have an average inside linebacker in Hawk, and a below average backer in Jones

- We have a very good DT in Mike Daniels and an average NT in Raji

- We have an average boundy corner in Tramon and an above average one in Shields, we have a stud slot guy in Casey Hayward.

- We have two question marks at Safety with Burnett and Clinton-Dix/Hyde. Burnett's got one good year and one bad year under his belt, hence the question mark.

When healthy, our defense is more talented, but the inability to remain healthy is the biggest concern.


Peppers is gonna be a stud for us this year.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This conversation has been had. I hope I'm wrong.
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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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TENINCH


Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 6626
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:


Your defense was awful last year. 29th in the league in points per drive.

- Your LBs are awful, like legitimately in competition for the worst crew in the league. Before you say, "But Anthony Barr," slow your roll dude, he's not a second level nickel defender and if he's played anything like Zimmer typically plays his SAM backer, he's only going to get 350ish snaps this year.

- Your #2 CB is average, #3 CB is awful, and your #1 CB is coming off a slightly above average year. Admittedly Rhodes is young and talented, but he hasn't put it together yet all the way.

- Robert Blanton was forgettable in his limited snaps last year. Harrison Smith played extremely well as a rookie, though he's coming off of a year on IR for a foot injury.

- You have two average edge rushers.

- Linval Joseph is a solid NT. Floyd in limited reps was a liability last year.

So from what we've seen:

Above Average: Smith, Rhodes

Average: Joseph, Munnerlyn, Robison, Griffen,

Liability: whoever your #3 CB ends up being, Blanton, Brinkley, Greenway, Floyd

Obviously a guy like Floyd has the potential to step up but your defense is really not that talented.



I honestly don't think it's fair to judge these players based on how they performed in an outdated scheme under a poor coach.
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blueswedeshoes


Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 2013
Location: WisKAHNsin
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TENINCH wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:


Your defense was awful last year. 29th in the league in points per drive.

- Your LBs are awful, like legitimately in competition for the worst crew in the league. Before you say, "But Anthony Barr," slow your roll dude, he's not a second level nickel defender and if he's played anything like Zimmer typically plays his SAM backer, he's only going to get 350ish snaps this year.

- Your #2 CB is average, #3 CB is awful, and your #1 CB is coming off a slightly above average year. Admittedly Rhodes is young and talented, but he hasn't put it together yet all the way.

- Robert Blanton was forgettable in his limited snaps last year. Harrison Smith played extremely well as a rookie, though he's coming off of a year on IR for a foot injury.

- You have two average edge rushers.

- Linval Joseph is a solid NT. Floyd in limited reps was a liability last year.

So from what we've seen:

Above Average: Smith, Rhodes

Average: Joseph, Munnerlyn, Robison, Griffen,

Liability: whoever your #3 CB ends up being, Blanton, Brinkley, Greenway, Floyd

Obviously a guy like Floyd has the potential to step up but your defense is really not that talented.



I honestly don't think it's fair to judge these players based on how they performed in an outdated scheme under a poor coach.


Dude you've been a very respectful participant. Many thoughtful people have read your points and will think of them should the Viking defense improve dramatically.

But surely this was not the venue in which you expected to receive a fair hearing.

We often don't get that luxury and we all root for the same team!
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I, too, would love TT to trade for another young receiver for Rodgers to dislike and ignore.
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vikingsrule


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 52626
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:


Your defense was awful last year. 29th in the league in points per drive.


I still dont see how this is relevant for 2014. There is likely only two full time starters returning from that defense (Robison and Greenway (back to WLB)). Smith missed half the year on IR. Rhodes mostly played nickel CB due to Frazier favoring veterans. Floyd replaces Williams. Griffen replaces Allen. You cant say that since they were bad last year that they will be doomed again. There is no logic behind this opinion.

Remember how awful the Packers defense was in 2008, and then they hired Capers, and they had an instant improvement. You bring in a brilliant defensive mind, you're more than likely going to get positive improvement on that side of the ball.

Quote:
- Your LBs are awful, like legitimately in competition for the worst crew in the league. Before you say, "But Anthony Barr," slow your roll dude, he's not a second level nickel defender and if he's played anything like Zimmer typically plays his SAM backer, he's only going to get 350ish snaps this year.


Barr will most likely be a full time starter, playing far more than 350ish snaps. You dont spend a top 10 pick on a player who will play 1/3 of the snaps. Barr will play SLB in base and move to either MLB in nickel (A gap rusher) or slide down to DE. This is the point with Barr, he is a freak athlete who the coaches are excited about in using as an all around defender. You're right though, Barr is a work in progress in coverage and in the run game. But he is already the starter at SLB and you better believe he will be put in pass rush situations all over the formation.

Greenway moves from SLB, where he sucked last year, back to WLB. Greenway was also dealing with an injury all of last year. We are excited that he will bounce back to what he was two years ago.

Jasper Brinkley will man the middle, but Audie Cole is pushing him. The MLB in this defense should be a part time player.

The LB unit is probably the weak link, I like how the Dline and Secondary look right now.

And what is with the "slow your role" comment. Cant we have a positive discussion without being condescending?

Quote:
- Your #2 CB is average, #3 CB is awful, and your #1 CB is coming off a slightly above average year. Admittedly Rhodes is young and talented, but he hasn't put it together yet all the way.


Rhodes is young, Zimmer has called him the most talented CB he has had the opportunity to work with. Right now, he is at RCB. Munnerlyn is playing LCB in base and will slide to slot in nickel. Rhodes and Munnerlyn are solid enough of a duo, its the 3rd CB spot that could be ugly. Josh Robinson and Derek Cox are unknowns. Cox was good in Jacksonville in a press scheme, but dreadful in zone last year in SD. Zimmer's defense will be ideal for Cox. Robinson is still only 23 years old and wasnt viewed as a zone Cb coming out. Man might be better for him since he is a fantastic athlete.

Quote:
- Robert Blanton was forgettable in his limited snaps last year. Harrison Smith played extremely well as a rookie, though he's coming off of a year on IR for a foot injury.


Blanton actually was the best slot CB MN had last year, he was not forgettable. Blanton seems to be a favorite of Zimmer, but recently got injured. Blanton will start at SS, its too soon to write him off. Blanton is a former CB and Zimmer expects his SS to play in man on the TE and/or slot WR. Blanton is a willing run defender, but from playing CB in college, to slot CB last year, it will be different at SS.

The Vikes also brought Chris Crocker, the SS Zimmer has had for many years. Zimmer has fielded top 10 defenses regularly with Crocker starting at SS. Worst case, MN goes back to him.

Quote:
- You have two average edge rushers.


Robison is an above average starting Left End and was among the league leaders in sacks from the LE position.

Griffen is average at this point, but I dont see why he cant get to being Michael Johnson good. Zimmer's D did fine with Johnson. Zimmer has prided his defense in not needing one stud pass rusher. He uses a constant rotation. Scott Crichton will get a lot of looks at RE and DT. Robison will play LE and DT. Corey Wootton will play LE. Barr will play OLB, DE and MLB.

This defense is going to be so much different than you're used too. Frazier was big on keeping both Robison and Allen in one spot and never taking them off the field or moving them around.

Quote:
- Linval Joseph is a solid NT. Floyd in limited reps was a liability last year.


you're completely discrediting Joseph if he is merely solid. Joseph has been a rock and is a wide body to move. Joseph also has good quickness to make plays in the back field. Joseph is still young and just getting into his prime. He is a prized free agent for a reason. I hope that he is okay since he was shot in the leg last night from a stray bullet.

Quote:
So from what we've seen:

Above Average: Smith, Rhodes

Average: Joseph, Munnerlyn, Robison, Griffen,

Liability: whoever your #3 CB ends up being, Blanton, Brinkley, Greenway, Floyd

Obviously a guy like Floyd has the potential to step up but your defense is really not that talented.


Robion and Joseph are clearly above average. You could put Greenway in the above average category too if he plays like he did in 2012.

Floyd and Blanton may prove to not be liabilities, they are very young players.

I think its fair to call Brinkley and Cox/Robinson as liabilities but both these players are part time players.
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Last edited by vikingsrule on Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HokieHigh


Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 2114
Location: Blacksburg
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
This conversation has been had. I hope I'm wrong.


Thats why I didn't dive in. I just wanted to illustrate to the foreigner that opinions vary on that signing.
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HokieHigh


Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 2114
Location: Blacksburg
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long does a bullet wound to the calf take to heal?
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