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T.I.R.T. 5.0 - O/U how many wins the Vikings have?
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ugLymayNe


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 14691
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Jerry Jones, way to put your best foot forward. Good work.


I don't have a problem with "fights" on the practice field until they reach the level of what happened in Chicago. Or unless players are stupidly throwing punches at helmets... Laughing
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugLymayNe wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Jerry Jones, way to put your best foot forward. Good work.


I don't have a problem with "fights" on the practice field until they reach the level of what happened in Chicago. Or unless players are stupidly throwing punches at helmets... Laughing


I meant more the pictures that just came to light.
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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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ugLymayNe


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 14691
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
ugLymayNe wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Jerry Jones, way to put your best foot forward. Good work.


I don't have a problem with "fights" on the practice field until they reach the level of what happened in Chicago. Or unless players are stupidly throwing punches at helmets... Laughing


I meant more the pictures that just came to light.



where did you see this? haha
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugLymayNe wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
ugLymayNe wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Jerry Jones, way to put your best foot forward. Good work.


I don't have a problem with "fights" on the practice field until they reach the level of what happened in Chicago. Or unless players are stupidly throwing punches at helmets... Laughing


I meant more the pictures that just came to light.



where did you see this? haha


Deadspin. NSFWish
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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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TENINCH


Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 6626
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:


Their awful at QB, 2 of 5 secondary spots, and LB. Not just regular awful, but advanced awful.

You say they're poised to break out along the defensive line, but all that means is that they haven't really become plus players at the pro level yet. Floyd looks like nothing special and Griffen has played enough the previous few seasons to know what he is. Linval Joseph is very good and Robison is a solid starter at LDE, but neither guy is a premier pass rusher.



1. Frazier is no longer running the defense. We don't know what we have in the secondary. Joe Woods (old secondary coach) could have turned Darell Revis into a second stringer. He and Frazier were idiots.

2. Floyd played limited snaps last year behind Kevin Williams. Frazier didn't have the balls to give Floyd snaps over Williams.

3. The Vikings don't even completely know what they have in Griffin. He's been stuck behind Jared Allen but shined in what opportunities he was given.


I'm not saying Zimmer is going to work miracles and makes the Vikings a top 10 defense but the ineptitude that was on display since Frazier got there will be gone.
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Tongue-Splitter


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
Posts: 7601
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TENINCH wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:


Their awful at QB, 2 of 5 secondary spots, and LB. Not just regular awful, but advanced awful.

You say they're poised to break out along the defensive line, but all that means is that they haven't really become plus players at the pro level yet. Floyd looks like nothing special and Griffen has played enough the previous few seasons to know what he is. Linval Joseph is very good and Robison is a solid starter at LDE, but neither guy is a premier pass rusher.



1. Frazier is no longer running the defense. We don't know what we have in the secondary. Joe Woods (old secondary coach) could have turned Darell Revis into a second stringer. He and Frazier were idiots.

2. Floyd played limited snaps last year behind Kevin Williams. Frazier didn't have the balls to give Floyd snaps over Williams.

3. The Vikings don't even completely know what they have in Griffin. He's been stuck behind Jared Allen but shined in what opportunities he was given.


I'm not saying Zimmer is going to work miracles and makes the Vikings a top 10 defense but the ineptitude that was on display since Frazier got there will be gone.

You clearly can't mention scheme. He knows, and you and I are both wrong.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 40976
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i get naming rights on next TIRT
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TENINCH wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:


Their awful at QB, 2 of 5 secondary spots, and LB. Not just regular awful, but advanced awful.

You say they're poised to break out along the defensive line, but all that means is that they haven't really become plus players at the pro level yet. Floyd looks like nothing special and Griffen has played enough the previous few seasons to know what he is. Linval Joseph is very good and Robison is a solid starter at LDE, but neither guy is a premier pass rusher.



1. Frazier is no longer running the defense. We don't know what we have in the secondary. Joe Woods (old secondary coach) could have turned Darell Revis into a second stringer. He and Frazier were idiots.

2. Floyd played limited snaps last year behind Kevin Williams. Frazier didn't have the balls to give Floyd snaps over Williams.

3. The Vikings don't even completely know what they have in Griffin. He's been stuck behind Jared Allen but shined in what opportunities he was given.


I'm not saying Zimmer is going to work miracles and makes the Vikings a top 10 defense but the ineptitude that was on display since Frazier got there will be gone.


1. How the heck does that make sense? We have seen these guys play, we know they have not played well. Maybe Zimmer is a magician and your secondary all of a sudden turns excellent. Until I see it, we're going off of the last time we've seen them play. Your #3 CB and Safety that is not Harrison Smith, suck.

2. Villifying the former player is not becoming. Floyd played 459 snaps last year vs. Williams 718. Let's not act like he never saw the field.

3. How the hell do you not know what you have in Griffen? He played 60% of your defensive snaps. He played 91 more snaps than BJ Raji who led the Packers defensive line in snaps. He put up 8.17 snaps per pressure, for the sake of comparison, Nick Perry put up 7.76 and Clay put up 7.29 in 2012. Congratulations, you have a slightly above average pass rusher who can kick inside in the dime. Go nuts.

Honestly, I'm a huge Zimmer fan, but your D just isn't that talented.
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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17912
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how ESPN's week of Worst to First has brainwashed millions of idiots into thinking ATL isn't terrible.
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TENINCH


Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 6626
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
TENINCH wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:


Their awful at QB, 2 of 5 secondary spots, and LB. Not just regular awful, but advanced awful.

You say they're poised to break out along the defensive line, but all that means is that they haven't really become plus players at the pro level yet. Floyd looks like nothing special and Griffen has played enough the previous few seasons to know what he is. Linval Joseph is very good and Robison is a solid starter at LDE, but neither guy is a premier pass rusher.



1. Frazier is no longer running the defense. We don't know what we have in the secondary. Joe Woods (old secondary coach) could have turned Darell Revis into a second stringer. He and Frazier were idiots.

2. Floyd played limited snaps last year behind Kevin Williams. Frazier didn't have the balls to give Floyd snaps over Williams.

3. The Vikings don't even completely know what they have in Griffin. He's been stuck behind Jared Allen but shined in what opportunities he was given.


I'm not saying Zimmer is going to work miracles and makes the Vikings a top 10 defense but the ineptitude that was on display since Frazier got there will be gone.


1. How the heck does that make sense? We have seen these guys play, we know they have not played well. Maybe Zimmer is a magician and your secondary all of a sudden turns excellent. Until I see it, we're going off of the last time we've seen them play. Your #3 CB and Safety that is not Harrison Smith, suck.

2. Villifying the former player is not becoming. Floyd played 459 snaps last year vs. Williams 718. Let's not act like he never saw the field.

3. How the hell do you not know what you have in Griffen? He played 60% of your defensive snaps. He played 91 more snaps than BJ Raji who led the Packers defensive line in snaps. He put up 8.17 snaps per pressure, for the sake of comparison, Nick Perry put up 7.76 and Clay put up 7.29 in 2012. Congratulations, you have a slightly above average pass rusher who can kick inside in the dime. Go nuts.

Honestly, I'm a huge Zimmer fan, but your D just isn't that talented.



1. Derek Cox was great in Jacksonville. Sucked in San Diego. We don't know what he'll be in Minnesota. Robert Blanton has come on strong at the safety spot. He's likely to get the starting nod next to Smith. Could be a great player in Zimmer's system.

2. Frazier made a point not to play rookies until he absolutely had to. Floyd also played out of position.

3. Griffin played in packages but was never a starter. The Vikings forum has raving about him for years waiting for him to get his shot once Jared Allen was gone.

How can you say they aren't talented when all you've seen is these players play in a Leslie Frazier cover 2 defense?
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Tongue-Splitter


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
Posts: 7601
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cassel looking good?

Has Bridgewater looked bad? Looks like he's had about 3 incompletions negated by penalties already.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TENINCH wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
TENINCH wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:


Their awful at QB, 2 of 5 secondary spots, and LB. Not just regular awful, but advanced awful.

You say they're poised to break out along the defensive line, but all that means is that they haven't really become plus players at the pro level yet. Floyd looks like nothing special and Griffen has played enough the previous few seasons to know what he is. Linval Joseph is very good and Robison is a solid starter at LDE, but neither guy is a premier pass rusher.



1. Frazier is no longer running the defense. We don't know what we have in the secondary. Joe Woods (old secondary coach) could have turned Darell Revis into a second stringer. He and Frazier were idiots.

2. Floyd played limited snaps last year behind Kevin Williams. Frazier didn't have the balls to give Floyd snaps over Williams.

3. The Vikings don't even completely know what they have in Griffin. He's been stuck behind Jared Allen but shined in what opportunities he was given.


I'm not saying Zimmer is going to work miracles and makes the Vikings a top 10 defense but the ineptitude that was on display since Frazier got there will be gone.


1. How the heck does that make sense? We have seen these guys play, we know they have not played well. Maybe Zimmer is a magician and your secondary all of a sudden turns excellent. Until I see it, we're going off of the last time we've seen them play. Your #3 CB and Safety that is not Harrison Smith, suck.

2. Villifying the former player is not becoming. Floyd played 459 snaps last year vs. Williams 718. Let's not act like he never saw the field.

3. How the hell do you not know what you have in Griffen? He played 60% of your defensive snaps. He played 91 more snaps than BJ Raji who led the Packers defensive line in snaps. He put up 8.17 snaps per pressure, for the sake of comparison, Nick Perry put up 7.76 and Clay put up 7.29 in 2012. Congratulations, you have a slightly above average pass rusher who can kick inside in the dime. Go nuts.

Honestly, I'm a huge Zimmer fan, but your D just isn't that talented.



1. Derek Cox was great in Jacksonville. Sucked in San Diego. We don't know what he'll be in Minnesota. Robert Blanton has come on strong at the safety spot. He's likely to get the starting nod next to Smith. Could be a great player in Zimmer's system.

2. Frazier made a point not to play rookies until he absolutely had to. Floyd also played out of position.

3. Griffin played in packages but was never a starter. The Vikings forum has raving about him for years waiting for him to get his shot once Jared Allen was gone.

How can you say they aren't talented when all you've seen is these players play in a Leslie Frazier cover 2 defense?


You'll forgive me for not buying the idea that everything your coaches did was retarded, and having a new coach install a new system is going to lead to incredible success in year one.

When every argument you make stems from blind optimism that your new head coach will lead to success, it's clear that you're reaching.
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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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vikingsrule


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 52626
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Successful defenses have followed Zimmer wherever he goes. Why is it not reasonable to believe this trend to continue?

The Bengals werent an overly talented defense either, Zimmer made it work though. Who were the true blue chip players in Cincinnati? Geno Atkins, Vontaze Burfict, and Leon Hall. Those are the three I can think of. Otherwise, I trust that Griffen and Robison are every bit as good as Michael Johnson and Carlos Dunlap. Joseph and Peko are comparable players. Of course, MN does not have that stud UT like Atkins, but neither did Zimmer last year. MN will really need Floyd to develop.

A player like Burfict would be nice, but that player will likely be Anthony Barr, who was a top 10 pick. Barr is going to lineup everywhere and the guy can fly around the field.

Secondary of course will be the biggest question mark, however, Zimmer is a DB specialist and MN finally has a strong DB coach in Jerry Gray.

I dont think you realize how inept Frazier's defensive staff was Laughing

So yes, there is optimism but that will always be the case when fielding such a young defense. I trust Zimmer to implement a strong and tough defense.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Successful defenses have followed Zimmer wherever he goes. Why is it not reasonable to believe this trend to continue?

The Bengals werent an overly talented defense either, Zimmer made it work though. Who were the true blue chip players in Cincinnati? Geno Atkins, Vontaze Burfict, and Leon Hall. Those are the three I can think of. Otherwise, I trust that Griffen and Robison are every bit as good as Michael Johnson and Carlos Dunlap. Joseph and Peko are comparable players. Of course, MN does not have that stud UT like Atkins, but neither did Zimmer last year. MN will really need Floyd to develop.

A player like Burfict would be nice, but that player will likely be Anthony Barr, who was a top 10 pick. Barr is going to lineup everywhere and the guy can fly around the field.

Secondary of course will be the biggest question mark, however, Zimmer is a DB specialist and MN finally has a strong DB coach in Jerry Gray.

I dont think you realize how inept Frazier's defensive staff was Laughing

So yes, there is optimism but that will always be the case when fielding such a young defense. I trust Zimmer to implement a strong and tough defense.


Your defense was awful last year. 29th in the league in points per drive.

- Your LBs are awful, like legitimately in competition for the worst crew in the league. Before you say, "But Anthony Barr," slow your roll dude, he's not a second level nickel defender and if he's played anything like Zimmer typically plays his SAM backer, he's only going to get 350ish snaps this year.

- Your #2 CB is average, #3 CB is awful, and your #1 CB is coming off a slightly above average year. Admittedly Rhodes is young and talented, but he hasn't put it together yet all the way.

- Robert Blanton was forgettable in his limited snaps last year. Harrison Smith played extremely well as a rookie, though he's coming off of a year on IR for a foot injury.

- You have two average edge rushers.

- Linval Joseph is a solid NT. Floyd in limited reps was a liability last year.

So from what we've seen:

Above Average: Smith, Rhodes

Average: Joseph, Munnerlyn, Robison, Griffen,

Liability: whoever your #3 CB ends up being, Blanton, Brinkley, Greenway, Floyd

Obviously a guy like Floyd has the potential to step up but your defense is really not that talented.
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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you go calling me a homer:

- We have a below average edge rusher in Peppers, and a stud in Matthews

- We have an average inside linebacker in Hawk, and a below average backer in Jones

- We have a very good DT in Mike Daniels and an average NT in Raji

- We have an average boundy corner in Tramon and an above average one in Shields, we have a stud slot guy in Casey Hayward.

- We have two question marks at Safety with Burnett and Clinton-Dix/Hyde. Burnett's got one good year and one bad year under his belt, hence the question mark.

When healthy, our defense is more talented, but the inability to remain healthy is the biggest concern.
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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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