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Why Fluker or Cyprien is going to be our pick at 18.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Why Fluker or Cyprien is going to be our pick at 18. Reply with quote

Baixis wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Justin Hoover82 wrote:
Imo everyone needs to accept the fact that when we pick at 18 these players will most likely be off the board

1. OT - L.JOECKEL
2. OT - E.FISHER
3. OT - L.JOHNSON]
4. OG - J.COOPER
5. OG - C.WARMACK
6. S - K.VACCARO]
7. DT - S.FLOYD
8. DT - S.LOUTELIE
9. DT - S.RICHARDSON

If this happens I believe based on need and BPA either Fluker or Cyprien must be the pick. A trade down would be ideal but if we stand pat one of these guys should be the pick. Fluker would replace Free day 1 at RT and Cyprien would start at FS day 1. I know alot of people may like Elam or Reid but F that! Cyprien is going to be the best safety or right there with Vaccaro out of this class you mark my word!


Not all of those players will be gone, I assure you. I'd bet good money that we won't see two OGs selected in the top 17.

Also, neither Cyprien nor Fluker are first round picks.


Not sure what makes you think Fluker isn't a 1st rd pick! I highly doubt he makes it out of the top 20. He is THE BEST RT in the draft, and while RT is not as desirable as LT, it's still important enough to take in the 1st. I would love Fluker personally! Also, I've been reading more and more that Cyprian's main weakness is deep coverage, ie: he's NOT a center-fielder type. I think we need a FS more than a SS, or at least someone who can cover the slot better.


Just because I don't consider him a 1st round pick doesn't mean I dislike him. I love Fluker as a RT prospect. But his lack of versatility and bad feet really limits him as a 1st round candidate, that's all.
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Why Fluker or Cyprien is going to be our pick at 18. Reply with quote

Baixis wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Justin Hoover82 wrote:
Imo everyone needs to accept the fact that when we pick at 18 these players will most likely be off the board

1. OT - L.JOECKEL
2. OT - E.FISHER
3. OT - L.JOHNSON]
4. OG - J.COOPER
5. OG - C.WARMACK
6. S - K.VACCARO]
7. DT - S.FLOYD
8. DT - S.LOUTELIE
9. DT - S.RICHARDSON

If this happens I believe based on need and BPA either Fluker or Cyprien must be the pick. A trade down would be ideal but if we stand pat one of these guys should be the pick. Fluker would replace Free day 1 at RT and Cyprien would start at FS day 1. I know alot of people may like Elam or Reid but F that! Cyprien is going to be the best safety or right there with Vaccaro out of this class you mark my word!


Not all of those players will be gone, I assure you. I'd bet good money that we won't see two OGs selected in the top 17.

Also, neither Cyprien nor Fluker are first round picks.


Not sure what makes you think Fluker isn't a 1st rd pick! I highly doubt he makes it out of the top 20. He is THE BEST RT in the draft, and while RT is not as desirable as LT, it's still important enough to take in the 1st. I would love Fluker personally! Also, I've been reading more and more that Cyprian's main weakness is deep coverage, ie: he's NOT a center-fielder type. I think we need a FS more than a SS, or at least someone who can cover the slot better.


Typically players (offensive linemen specifically) who lack versatiliy will drop. That's why Guards who can Play Center go higher than straight Guards. Or Guards who can play Tackle go higher than straight Guards. It's why Fluker, who can't play Guard, and can't play Left Tackle - is solely a Right Tackle - will drop. He also is scheme specific (IMO) - he's going to be a guy who fits well in a MBS or PBS system but will be passed over by most ZBS teams.

Same thing with Safeties - a guy who can patrol the middle, step up in run support, and act as an enforcer can be a good fit for the right team, but is less valuable than a cover guy.

I think Fluker could get passed over by teams who rather take an Armstead prospect.
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Baixis


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Why Fluker or Cyprien is going to be our pick at 18. Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
Baixis wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Justin Hoover82 wrote:
Imo everyone needs to accept the fact that when we pick at 18 these players will most likely be off the board

1. OT - L.JOECKEL
2. OT - E.FISHER
3. OT - L.JOHNSON]
4. OG - J.COOPER
5. OG - C.WARMACK
6. S - K.VACCARO]
7. DT - S.FLOYD
8. DT - S.LOUTELIE
9. DT - S.RICHARDSON

If this happens I believe based on need and BPA either Fluker or Cyprien must be the pick. A trade down would be ideal but if we stand pat one of these guys should be the pick. Fluker would replace Free day 1 at RT and Cyprien would start at FS day 1. I know alot of people may like Elam or Reid but F that! Cyprien is going to be the best safety or right there with Vaccaro out of this class you mark my word!


Not all of those players will be gone, I assure you. I'd bet good money that we won't see two OGs selected in the top 17.

Also, neither Cyprien nor Fluker are first round picks.


Not sure what makes you think Fluker isn't a 1st rd pick! I highly doubt he makes it out of the top 20. He is THE BEST RT in the draft, and while RT is not as desirable as LT, it's still important enough to take in the 1st. I would love Fluker personally! Also, I've been reading more and more that Cyprian's main weakness is deep coverage, ie: he's NOT a center-fielder type. I think we need a FS more than a SS, or at least someone who can cover the slot better.


Typically players (offensive linemen specifically) who lack versatiliy will drop. That's why Guards who can Play Center go higher than straight Guards. Or Guards who can play Tackle go higher than straight Guards. It's why Fluker, who can't play Guard, and can't play Left Tackle - is solely a Right Tackle - will drop. He also is scheme specific (IMO) - he's going to be a guy who fits well in a MBS or PBS system but will be passed over by most ZBS teams.

Same thing with Safeties - a guy who can patrol the middle, step up in run support, and act as an enforcer can be a good fit for the right team, but is less valuable than a cover guy.

I think Fluker could get passed over by teams who rather take an Armstead prospect.


See, and to me, Fluker's monster size and all that experience, would suggest that we could plug him in on the right side and not have to worry for the next 10-12 years. And THAT is what I want with a 1st rd pick. Is he perfect? No. Would our coaches have to design plays that fit him? Sure. But I think that's the case with most players. IF we are truly going to a more ZBS, than I can understand this a little more, but I also think his HUGE size would make up for that a little. Armstead interests me, but not until the 2nd, at least. A lot of up-side, but not as much 'on tape', or experience.
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be looking at trading down if all those players were off the board. Especially if someone in the early 2nd was wanting to move up for a QB.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WareWolf94 wrote:
If two guards go in the top 18 Ill wear the sig of anyone's choice.


I'm in on that. No way both go before 18.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
If two guards go in the top 18 Ill wear the sig of anyone's choice.


I'm in on that. No way both go before 18.


I will take you guys up on that challenge. Warmack will go top 15 and Cooper will go #18.


I win.
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
If two guards go in the top 18 Ill wear the sig of anyone's choice.


I'm in on that. No way both go before 18.


I will take you guys up on that challenge. Warmack will go top 15 and Cooper will go #18.


I win.


You get WW94 but not GD Laughing
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WareWolf94


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
If two guards go in the top 18 Ill wear the sig of anyone's choice.


I'm in on that. No way both go before 18.


I will take you guys up on that challenge. Warmack will go top 15 and Cooper will go #18.


I win.


You get WW94 but not GD Laughing


You guys know what I meant... =(
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Justin Hoover82


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: Why Fluker or Cyprien is going to be our pick at 18. Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
Baixis wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Justin Hoover82 wrote:
Imo everyone needs to accept the fact that when we pick at 18 these players will most likely be off the board

1. OT - L.JOECKEL
2. OT - E.FISHER
3. OT - L.JOHNSON]
4. OG - J.COOPER
5. OG - C.WARMACK
6. S - K.VACCARO]
7. DT - S.FLOYD
8. DT - S.LOUTELIE
9. DT - S.RICHARDSON

If this happens I believe based on need and BPA either Fluker or Cyprien must be the pick. A trade down would be ideal but if we stand pat one of these guys should be the pick. Fluker would replace Free day 1 at RT and Cyprien would start at FS day 1. I know alot of people may like Elam or Reid but F that! Cyprien is going to be the best safety or right there with Vaccaro out of this class you mark my word!


Not all of those players will be gone, I assure you. I'd bet good money that we won't see two OGs selected in the top 17.

Also, neither Cyprien nor Fluker are first round picks.


Not sure what makes you think Fluker isn't a 1st rd pick! I highly doubt he makes it out of the top 20. He is THE BEST RT in the draft, and while RT is not as desirable as LT, it's still important enough to take in the 1st. I would love Fluker personally! Also, I've been reading more and more that Cyprian's main weakness is deep coverage, ie: he's NOT a center-fielder type. I think we need a FS more than a SS, or at least someone who can cover the slot better.


Typically players (offensive linemen specifically) who lack versatiliy will drop. That's why Guards who can Play Center go higher than straight Guards. Or Guards who can play Tackle go higher than straight Guards. It's why Fluker, who can't play Guard, and can't play Left Tackle - is solely a Right Tackle - will drop. He also is scheme specific (IMO) - he's going to be a guy who fits well in a MBS or PBS system but will be passed over by most ZBS teams.

Same thing with Safeties - a guy who can patrol the middle, step up in run support, and act as an enforcer can be a good fit for the right team, but is less valuable than a cover guy.

I think Fluker could get passed over by teams who rather take an Armstead prospect.


Whoa Whoa Whoa. What makes you think Fluker could not be a very good guard? He will be dominate run blocking.
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Why Fluker or Cyprien is going to be our pick at 18. Reply with quote

Justin Hoover82 wrote:
Whoa Whoa Whoa. What makes you think Fluker could not be a very good guard? He will be dominate run blocking.


An inability to get to the next level, doesn't move well in space, has terrible technique that could lend to him being dominated by tackles who are larger/stronger than the ends he typically faces.
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WareWolf94


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's something to ponder for those who think both Top Guards will be gone by 18.

Since 1987, Only once has Two Guards been selected in the top 18.

The only occurrence in that period?

2001 when Arizona took Davis at 2 and Seattle took Hutchinson at 17.

And even then, Davis was selected to play Tackle.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WareWolf94 wrote:
Here's something to ponder for those who think both Top Guards will be gone by 18.

Since 1987, Only once has Two Guards been selected in the top 18.

The only occurrence in that period?

2001 when Arizona took Davis at 2 and Seattle took Hutchinson at 17.

And even then, Davis was selected to play Tackle.


That's not even a good example because Davis spent the first few years of his career as an OT. He was moved to OG because he sucked as an OT, but he was never drafted with the intention of moving him to OG. Arizona was merely trying to salvage a draft bust.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the past 27 years, does anyone know how many times 5 OL have gone in the top 17? Zero times. One of them will fall to us.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
In the past 27 years, does anyone know how many times 5 OL have gone in the top 17? Zero times. One of them will fall to us.


Hope it's Cooper. My preferential draft goes something like this -

1. Cooper
2. BPA at DT or S
3. Schwenke

After that...I'm really indifferent what we do.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Wishful albeit Realistic Draft

1st - Jonathan Cooper OG North Carolina
2nd - Terron Armstead OT Arkansas-Pine Bluff
3rd - Johnathan Franklin RB UCLA
4th - JJ Wilcox S Georgia Southern
5th - Bennie Logan DT LSU
6th - Sean Renfree QB Duke
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