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How would you rank our need positions?
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Runaway Jim


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Free Safety
2. Right Tackle
3. Running Back
4. Center or Guard
5. Defensive Tackle
6. Outside Linebacker
7. Tight End
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
I see people bashing my list but nobody has taken the time to actually address why they feel it's misguided. It's in line with most other lists you'll find, I simply placed the one position where we have nobody of starter quality higher than others.


Because your #1 is not a priority position and we have 3 guys on the roster who can play it...?

Is #4 a DT or OT?
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baixis wrote:
MaddHatter wrote:
I see people bashing my list but nobody has taken the time to actually address why they feel it's misguided. It's in line with most other lists you'll find, I simply placed the one position where we have nobody of starter quality higher than others.


Well I haven't bashed it, BUT, I will say that SAM is far from our biggest need, BECAUSE, we drafted Wilber just last year in the 4th. Him and Albright - who has shown some decent stuff himself AND had pretty darn good measurables coming out of college - should be able to hold down that spot, with Sims and possibly Spencer subbing in certain situations. That makes SAM less than say RT, where we have two guys - one of which will probably get cut, and the other who has never been anything but a backup. It also puts SAM behind a spot like Safety, where again, we have two guys, BOTH coming off injury, and NEITHER having much experience, or even NONE. Personally, I also think SAM is behind a spot like RB, because we all know that Murray will spend some time injured. During that time, who is our RB?! Dunbar? Tanner? Please! We have to have someone who can carry 15-20 balls a game, for a few games at least. So anyway, hope that helps with WHY people don't like your list.


Thanks for taking the time to express your opinion and offer a contrasting one to mine. I think you could be right - however I think I could be right in my thought that Wilber looked absolutely lost every time he saw the field last year and that Albright is probably a poor fit for that position and that if Sims is our starter, we're in big trouble as he's a backup WILL and a terrible SAM. Albright - for what it's worth - I think is a decent backup option, but I'd prefer him backing up Lee than starting at SAM.

If you were to consider the possibility that we do not have a player capable of starting at the SAM position and playing at an average level, then I think it vaults SAM much higher up the list. Atleast at S we have two guys who are able to if they're healthy.

Now I'm not saying that I would draft a SAM in the first if an elite G or T or S prospect falls but that's more on the positional value and the lack of SAM talent in this draft.
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htfryar


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
MaddHatter wrote:
I see people bashing my list but nobody has taken the time to actually address why they feel it's misguided. It's in line with most other lists you'll find, I simply placed the one position where we have nobody of starter quality higher than others.


Because your #1 is not a priority position and we have 3 guys on the roster who can play it...?

Is #4 a DT or OT?


I do not agree with MH that SOLB is the #1 priority, but I can see where he is coming from. Albright and Wilber were college DE's, with no experience at SOLB. Spencer could do it on 1st and 2nd down, but not likely on 3rd down. Sims is too small and would get eaten alive vs the run. Who is the 3rd guy you think can do it Matts?
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
MaddHatter wrote:
I see people bashing my list but nobody has taken the time to actually address why they feel it's misguided. It's in line with most other lists you'll find, I simply placed the one position where we have nobody of starter quality higher than others.


Because your #1 is not a priority position and we have 3 guys on the roster who can play it...?

Is #4 a DT or OT?


#4 is an OT, #5 is a DT

And I understand that some think Wilber or Albright or Sims could play SAM - I'm of the belief that Wilber has shown nothing to suggest he could and - if anything - has shown much that would suggest he can't. I'd say that Sims has a career worth of film that proves he can't and I would say that I like Albright (I was the guy touting him and Lemon as guys to watch) but I'm of hte opinion he's better at MIKE than SAM and a guy who can do a little bit of everything but nothing great. I have no issue giving him consideration there, just like Leary and Arkin and Parnell will get consideration at their spots, I'm just saying that - IMO - we have zero "starter" caliber players at the SAM position.

I'm entirely open to the idea that I'm wrong, I just appreciate people taking the time to discuss it rather than make snide comments that bring zero value to the forum or the discussion
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Baixis


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
Baixis wrote:
MaddHatter wrote:
I see people bashing my list but nobody has taken the time to actually address why they feel it's misguided. It's in line with most other lists you'll find, I simply placed the one position where we have nobody of starter quality higher than others.


Well I haven't bashed it, BUT, I will say that SAM is far from our biggest need, BECAUSE, we drafted Wilber just last year in the 4th. Him and Albright - who has shown some decent stuff himself AND had pretty darn good measurables coming out of college - should be able to hold down that spot, with Sims and possibly Spencer subbing in certain situations. That makes SAM less than say RT, where we have two guys - one of which will probably get cut, and the other who has never been anything but a backup. It also puts SAM behind a spot like Safety, where again, we have two guys, BOTH coming off injury, and NEITHER having much experience, or even NONE. Personally, I also think SAM is behind a spot like RB, because we all know that Murray will spend some time injured. During that time, who is our RB?! Dunbar? Tanner? Please! We have to have someone who can carry 15-20 balls a game, for a few games at least. So anyway, hope that helps with WHY people don't like your list.


Thanks for taking the time to express your opinion and offer a contrasting one to mine. I think you could be right - however I think I could be right in my thought that Wilber looked absolutely lost every time he saw the field last year and that Albright is probably a poor fit for that position and that if Sims is our starter, we're in big trouble as he's a backup WILL and a terrible SAM. Albright - for what it's worth - I think is a decent backup option, but I'd prefer him backing up Lee than starting at SAM.

If you were to consider the possibility that we do not have a player capable of starting at the SAM position and playing at an average level, then I think it vaults SAM much higher up the list. Atleast at S we have two guys who are able to if they're healthy.

Now I'm not saying that I would draft a SAM in the first if an elite G or T or S prospect falls but that's more on the positional value and the lack of SAM talent in this draft.


I do actually see your reasoning. With those assumptions, I could see SAM being our 3rd highest priority. I would still put RT and Safety above them though because - say Wilber is no better than a backup, and him and Albright rotate at SAM (I agree Sims is definitely a WILL too). I still have more confidence in those two than I do in Parnell as our RT (with Free being cut and only two OTs on the roster) or with Church and Johnson as our starting Safeties. At least Wilber saw the field last year and isn't dealing with injuries and has Albright to contend with. We have NO ONE ahead of OR behind Johnson, who we really know nothing of. I still might have to put SAM behind RB too, because we KNOW Murray will get hurt and his back up will have to play. We don't know that Albright or Wilber will get hurt though. I think the idea of Spencer occasionally dropping back to SAM is also more reassuring than the options we have at other spots.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
I'm entirely open to the idea that I'm wrong, I just appreciate people taking the time to discuss it rather than make snide comments that bring zero value to the forum or the discussion


Dont get sensative on us now. Just teasing a little.

Wilber, Albright and Spencer could all play the position. Its not as important as Safety, DE or DT. As far as positional value, its one of the lowest on defense. I just dont see it as a high need are.

That said - I do think we should address it. And I would even be open to addressing it early if the right guy fell to us. But I just dont think that SAM is the difference between winning and loosing next season. Our OL and Safety play is a much bigger concern.


BTW - No one has answered me in the other thread, but can D Moore from A&M play Sam at a high level?
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
Albright and Wilber were college DE's, with no experience at SOLB.


http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/wilber_kyle00.html

Quote:
Wilber is an big, athletic and strong outside backer from Wake Forest who looks the part of a pro defender and could contribute early for an NFL team. He arrived at Wake Forest as a top recruit from Florida, bringing his size and speed to the defense. He is a bit of a poor man's Aaron Curry, whom he played with early on in his career. He is a high-energy, high-motor player who hasn't played much on special teams at Wake Forest because of the team's needs, but he could easily contribute there early on at the next level. Look for a team needing linebacker depth and special teams contributions to select him in the late rounds and potentially develop him into a starter.
http://m.nfl.com/combine/profile/2532974/kyle-wilber/


Quote:
Draft Scout Snapshot: A closer look at the Cowboys' picks: Round 4/113 - Kyle Wilbur, LB, 6-3, 250, Wake Forest...The Cowboys were looking to upgrade their pass rush and Wilbur helps address that need. He had 13.5 sacks in college. But he is also solid covering backs out of the backfield and good against the run. - The Sports Xchange

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=80358&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB


Quote:
"I think it's time for Kyle Wilber to step up," Jones said. "There's a lot of things we liked about him last year, and we're hoping that he can step up and take that challenge. Also, we've got Albright that'll try that spot out, and then we've got Ernie now. We think we're pretty good."

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/3/19/4123602/kyle-wilber-has-opportunity-to-grab-strongside-linebacker-spot
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:

Quote:
"I think it's time for Kyle Wilber to step up," Jones said. "There's a lot of things we liked about him last year, and we're hoping that he can step up and take that challenge. Also, we've got Albright that'll try that spot out, and then we've got Ernie now. We think we're pretty good."

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/3/19/4123602/kyle-wilber-has-opportunity-to-grab-strongside-linebacker-spot


He also said "I hope Wilber" when asked who would play SAM - Hoping is a way of saying "We don't have anyone, so this guy is going to try"


Stephen said the same thing (Bolded) about our Safety position

Quote:
"We think our two starters probably are on our team," team executive vice president Stephen Jones said Monday. "We may get some insurance there, just like we did with Ernie (Sims), and then of course we’re going to draft. We’ve got some players to draft and college free agents to get, but we do think our two young guys could start for us."


So should we scratch S of our needs list?
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
MaddHatter wrote:
I'm entirely open to the idea that I'm wrong, I just appreciate people taking the time to discuss it rather than make snide comments that bring zero value to the forum or the discussion


Dont get sensative on us now. Just teasing a little.

Wilber, Albright and Spencer could all play the position. Its not as important as Safety, DE or DT. As far as positional value, its one of the lowest on defense. I just dont see it as a high need are.

That said - I do think we should address it. And I would even be open to addressing it early if the right guy fell to us. But I just dont think that SAM is the difference between winning and loosing next season. Our OL and Safety play is a much bigger concern.


BTW - No one has answered me in the other thread, but can D Moore from A&M play Sam at a high level?


I don't know about D Moore

I'm a big Spencer fan as you know, but it seems like he's been cemented in at SDE and will not play any SAM.

DE has two very strong starters already lined up - and if Spencer gets extended like many think will happen - it drops significantly on need list.

DT I agree but moreso b/c we have 3 starter quality 3-techs and no 1-techs - but I think we see Hatcher / Lissemore / Ratliff rotating at the two spots with some Price if he can step up and overcome his adversity. So we have 3 starter quality guys to play 2 spots there which would seem to drop it down the needs list as well.
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htfryar


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, even I make mistakes once in a while. I remembered seeing several highlight films of him as a DE with his hand in the dirt. I guess those were from a nickel set or something. I can't honestly say that I kept up with him much before we picked him. If I'm being completely honest, since he made no impact at all last year, I didn't keep up with him very much even after we picked him.
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Dboys88-82


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baixis wrote:
Dboys88-82 wrote:
Im basing my list assuming that Free is cut.

RT--Id love to think that Parnell could potentially be the second best offensive lineman on the team after tyron smith, but im not willing to put all our eggs in one basket. Frankly we dont know much at all about him. He could be the absolute worst player on the offensive line.

RG-- Burningduece is terrible. An actual burning duece could out perform him at RG.

S-- Church coming off an achilles and Matt Johnson proved nothing last season besides he could be very injury prone. I do like both players, but we would be banking on a ton of unknowns here.

C-- Costa, Cook, every option we have sucks.

LG-- i like Livings, but he could easily be upgraded. Do i expect us to fix every spot on the o line? No, I dont. And Livings should be the last one to go based off of last year, but this should be one of our top needs nonetheless.

SLB--this depends if we play Spencer here on first and second down. If we do. DE can be moved to this spot.

DE--see above post. Not a huge need if spencer is playing every down at DE. If he is playing at SLB then it becomes a need.

DT-- if Spencer plays SLB and we dont fill the DE spot we could move hatcher out to DE. Thus, opening up another position of need at DT.

If you can follow my mess of an explanation between SLB, DE, and DT congrats. Good news is we do have some flexibility at these positions. Our needs at these spots depend on where spencer and hatcher play.


So it looks like you're all for replacing every OL spot except Smith. Not a horrible idea I guess, but the MOST pressing needs? So tell me, once that line is fixed, who exactly is gonna carry then rock WHEN Murray goes down? And heaven forbid Miles' little hammies act up at the same time as Murray is out! I don't totally disagree with, but I just can't understand how you don't even mention RB or WR. Replacing TWO OL this year would be good IMO. We can get the other two next year.


Im not sayin that those arent "needs", but RB and WR arent our biggest "needs" IMO. I dont want to spend a premium pick or high dollars in FA on those positions (even if the money was available). I think we can find a suitable back up RB for cheap in FA or later in the draft. We need premium blockers for Murray though. He can only do so much running behind the garbage in front of him. Romo can also only do so much with stud receivers behind the same garbage. Games won and lost in trenches.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a fan of Wilber, and think Albright can be a decent dirty-work guy, but otherwise I agree with MH. I don't get what this board loves so much about Church and Johnson. The former looked competent in 2 games, the latter got a bunch of interceptions at a D-3 school and Bryan Broaddus said he wasn't a reach in the draft. Great. We really know nothing about either of them except that one's coming off a torn Achilles and the other has hamstrings made of glass. I get the upside but not the confidence.
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Baixis


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dboys88-82 wrote:
Baixis wrote:
Dboys88-82 wrote:
Im basing my list assuming that Free is cut.

RT--Id love to think that Parnell could potentially be the second best offensive lineman on the team after tyron smith, but im not willing to put all our eggs in one basket. Frankly we dont know much at all about him. He could be the absolute worst player on the offensive line.

RG-- Burningduece is terrible. An actual burning duece could out perform him at RG.

S-- Church coming off an achilles and Matt Johnson proved nothing last season besides he could be very injury prone. I do like both players, but we would be banking on a ton of unknowns here.

C-- Costa, Cook, every option we have sucks.

LG-- i like Livings, but he could easily be upgraded. Do i expect us to fix every spot on the o line? No, I dont. And Livings should be the last one to go based off of last year, but this should be one of our top needs nonetheless.

SLB--this depends if we play Spencer here on first and second down. If we do. DE can be moved to this spot.

DE--see above post. Not a huge need if spencer is playing every down at DE. If he is playing at SLB then it becomes a need.

DT-- if Spencer plays SLB and we dont fill the DE spot we could move hatcher out to DE. Thus, opening up another position of need at DT.

If you can follow my mess of an explanation between SLB, DE, and DT congrats. Good news is we do have some flexibility at these positions. Our needs at these spots depend on where spencer and hatcher play.


So it looks like you're all for replacing every OL spot except Smith. Not a horrible idea I guess, but the MOST pressing needs? So tell me, once that line is fixed, who exactly is gonna carry then rock WHEN Murray goes down? And heaven forbid Miles' little hammies act up at the same time as Murray is out! I don't totally disagree with, but I just can't understand how you don't even mention RB or WR. Replacing TWO OL this year would be good IMO. We can get the other two next year.


Im not sayin that those arent "needs", but RB and WR arent our biggest "needs" IMO. I dont want to spend a premium pick or high dollars in FA on those positions (even if the money was available). I think we can find a suitable back up RB for cheap in FA or later in the draft. We need premium blockers for Murray though. He can only do so much running behind the garbage in front of him. Romo can also only do so much with stud receivers behind the same garbage. Games won and lost in trenches.


Yeah, I know what you mean. I think they are needs, but I probably wouldn't draft a RB before the 4th (I'd like to see two OL and a safety personally) and I'm not sure if I would draft a WR at all. I want to see what Harris and Beasley and Coale can provide - I just worry about Miles' hammies. I also think decent back up RBs and WR can be bought this summer.
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htfryar


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt79511 wrote:
I don't get what this board loves so much about Church and Johnson. The former looked competent in 2 games, the latter got a bunch of interceptions at a D-3 school and Bryan Broaddus said he wasn't a reach in the draft. Great. We really know nothing about either of them except that one's coming off a torn Achilles and the other has hamstrings made of glass. I get the upside but not the confidence.


I like Church at SS, but have concerns about his injury. How will it affect his speed, which was already average at best. Will he still be able to change directions at run with a TE as well as he did before the injury? Where is he at in his rehab? You get the idea.

As for Johnson, I'd like to believe that he is going to stay healthy and have a 2nd year impact like Sean Lee and Bruce Carter did in their 2nd years. Unfortunately, I expect him to be about as durable as Lee and Carter. Coutning on him for anything more than a spot on the IR is not a good idea. Again, I truly hope I'm wrong.

Because of my concerns about Johnson, I would love for the draft to go like this...

1. Johnathan Cooper, OG, UNC
2. Sylvester Williams, DT, UNC or Travis Frederick, C, Wisconsin
3. D.J. Swearinger, FS, South Carolina
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