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AlanFanecaFan


Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 10952
Location: Getting hammered with Jeff Reed
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Some thoughts and a mock Reply with quote

A few things on my mind after free agency.

-Colbert and Co obviously didn't value Lewis as much as we did...failure to even offer a deal shows that.

-Overall they didn't value the guys that left...Colbert basically stated that when he said "those were guys from an 8-8 team" (paraphrasing)

-LeBeau has stated that they need to groom a safety behind Clark and Troy...I wonder what happen come late April.

-People complaining over resigning Gay, Spaeth and Foote need to relax. They're needed stopgaps and depth.

-Collectively if they cut all 3 after this upcoming season, it will only cost $1.3 mill to do so while saving over $3 mill....so stop whining.

Quick mock...can't fix everything...what I think they will do...not what I want...Sanders comes back...some different names.

1) Kenny Vaccaro FS Texas
2) Giovanni Bernard RB UNC
3) Corey Lemonier OLB Auburn
4) Brian Winters OG/OT Kent St
5) Sanders Commings CB UGA
6) Conner Vernon WR Duke
6) Josh Boyd NT Miss St
7) Jonathan Stewart ILB Texas AM
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BigSnack


Joined: 04 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st i agree that the players signed are just stop gaps and expect none of them to see the end of their newly signed contracts.

If sanders stays put then I really like this draft and like what you did.

obviously if sanders leaves then it would change how i feel cuz i dont think the pick we would get in return could be used to replace him. If he does leave then i see us using our 2nd or earlier 3rd for his replacement as the value at wr will be mid 2nd-mid 3rd.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 50766
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Re: Some thoughts and a mock Reply with quote

AlanFanecaFan wrote:
A few things on my mind after free agency.

-Colbert and Co obviously didn't value Lewis as much as we did...failure to even offer a deal shows that.


1) We dont even know if thats 100% true.
2) If it is, it may be because we knew we couldnt afford him. Its unlikely he wouldve given us the same deal he gave the Saints.

Quote:
-Overall they didn't value the guys that left...Colbert basically stated that when he said "those were guys from an 8-8 team" (paraphrasing)


Terrible logic....especially considering our cap situation.

Quote:
-LeBeau has stated that they need to groom a safety behind Clark and Troy...I wonder what happen come late April.


Obviously, thats true, because we have absolutely nothing behind them.

Doesnt mean you force the pick.

Quote:
-People complaining over resigning Gay, Spaeth and Foote need to relax. They're needed stopgaps and depth.


I agree with this completely.


Quote:
1) Kenny Vaccaro FS Texas
2) Giovanni Bernard RB UNC
3) Corey Lemonier OLB Auburn
4) Brian Winters OG/OT Kent St
5) Sanders Commings CB UGA
6) Conner Vernon WR Duke
6) Josh Boyd NT Miss St
7) Jonathan Stewart ILB Texas AM


First two rounds alone make me hate it.

Two overrated players, especially Bernard. Very weak RB class which inflates his stock. 4th round talent IMO.

Vacarro isnt bad, but top 20? No thanks.

Honestly, after that, Lemonier and Boyd are the only ones I know,. The positions are fine, but cant really comment on the players. Lemonier and Boyd are fine.

I give it a C.
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SteelProven


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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vaccaro is a jack of all trades master of none. Which is fine if the Steelers didn't have a FS already. I believe Golden will be given a chance and honestly depending on how things fall. I could easily see the first two rounds being switched. I know fans would be livid, but how things are falling i believe a player such as Lacy could sneak up.

I'd rather have a few other SS canidates such as Swearinger, Thomas, Elam or McDonald in the 2nd-3rd round.

Bernard I like a lot but slight backs life expectancy isn't good. I know we have Dwyer and Redman, but I'd still get a slightly big RB. Lacy, Bell, Stacy, Michael and maybe a light round flyer on Lattimore.

Vernon from Duke I think is ok, but I really like Chris Harper out of KSU he is multi facet because he played QB. Not saying Tomlin era will do this but drafting a former QB turned WR as a organization is in the Steelers DNA. Plus they've done well with those players Ward, ARE, Wilson. Plus Harper is a big bodied WR with very good speed.

He's made a little bit of noise, so I don't know how much momentum he has going into the draft. But if he's around the 4th pick or later I'd LOVE Vince Williams.

I completely understand your thought process behind your mock and I completely agree with your write up. Just think the Steelers maybe surprise all of us this year since there isn't the big name talent. Unless of course they trade up or one falls.

I believe the Steelers will probably sign Victor Butler or a FA OLB. So unless Jarvis Jones falls I think they'll pass on one unless there is true value in the bottom half of the draft.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 50766
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
I believe the Steelers will probably sign Victor Butler or a FA OLB. So unless Jarvis Jones falls I think they'll pass on one unless there is true value in the bottom half of the draft.


I agreed with most of your post up until this point.

Even if they pick up Victor Butler, what does that really change? Butler, much like Worlids, has never shown the ability to be a starter in this league. That would be the equivalent of thinking we dont need a TE because we signed Matt Spaeth to compete with David Paulson.

NOW, Im not saying you are wrong about where we will take a LB, but it wont have anything to do with being comfortable with those two....it will be because the value wasnt there.

There are several OLBs that are 2nd and 3rd round prospects that would likely garner strong consideration.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
I believe the Steelers will probably sign Victor Butler or a FA OLB. So unless Jarvis Jones falls I think they'll pass on one unless there is true value in the bottom half of the draft.


I agreed with most of your post up until this point.

Even if they pick up Victor Butler, what does that really change? Butler, much like Worlids, has never shown the ability to be a starter in this league. That would be the equivalent of thinking we dont need a TE because we signed Matt Spaeth to compete with David Paulson.

NOW, Im not saying you are wrong about where we will take a LB, but it wont have anything to do with being comfortable with those two....it will be because the value wasnt there.

There are several OLBs that are 2nd and 3rd round prospects that would likely garner strong consideration.


43M we are good friends until we talk about OLB's! Laughing

I agree that they may, but the Steelers have quite a few OLB on the roster. I just feel they are ready to give those players a chance unless a supreme talent falls into their laps.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 50766
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
I believe the Steelers will probably sign Victor Butler or a FA OLB. So unless Jarvis Jones falls I think they'll pass on one unless there is true value in the bottom half of the draft.


I agreed with most of your post up until this point.

Even if they pick up Victor Butler, what does that really change? Butler, much like Worlids, has never shown the ability to be a starter in this league. That would be the equivalent of thinking we dont need a TE because we signed Matt Spaeth to compete with David Paulson.

NOW, Im not saying you are wrong about where we will take a LB, but it wont have anything to do with being comfortable with those two....it will be because the value wasnt there.

There are several OLBs that are 2nd and 3rd round prospects that would likely garner strong consideration.


43M we are good friends until we talk about OLB's! Laughing

I agree that they may, but the Steelers have quite a few OLB on the roster. I just feel they are ready to give those players a chance unless a supreme talent falls into their laps.


Haha...I agree.

They took Jason Worlids in the 2nd round when we had Harrison and Woodley dominating.

Now, Harrison is gone, Woodley is struggling, and Worlids is going into his 4th year without having shown much. If they add Butler, it will just be like signing another Worlids.

Im not saying they will bend over backwards to get an OLB, but I dont think it needs to be a "supreme talent", but rather "good value" where they pick, based on their big board.

This year, outside of QB and DE, I think we could go absolutely any position in the first 2 or 3 rounds. Hell, even DE could be an early pick, although Id hate it.
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SteelProven


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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
I believe the Steelers will probably sign Victor Butler or a FA OLB. So unless Jarvis Jones falls I think they'll pass on one unless there is true value in the bottom half of the draft.


I agreed with most of your post up until this point.

Even if they pick up Victor Butler, what does that really change? Butler, much like Worlids, has never shown the ability to be a starter in this league. That would be the equivalent of thinking we dont need a TE because we signed Matt Spaeth to compete with David Paulson.

NOW, Im not saying you are wrong about where we will take a LB, but it wont have anything to do with being comfortable with those two....it will be because the value wasnt there.

There are several OLBs that are 2nd and 3rd round prospects that would likely garner strong consideration.


43M we are good friends until we talk about OLB's! Laughing

I agree that they may, but the Steelers have quite a few OLB on the roster. I just feel they are ready to give those players a chance unless a supreme talent falls into their laps.


Haha...I agree.

They took Jason Worlids in the 2nd round when we had Harrison and Woodley dominating.

Now, Harrison is gone, Woodley is struggling, and Worlids is going into his 4th year without having shown much. If they add Butler, it will just be like signing another Worlids.

Im not saying they will bend over backwards to get an OLB, but I dont think it needs to be a "supreme talent", but rather "good value" where they pick, based on their big board.

This year, outside of QB and DE, I think we could go absolutely any position in the first 2 or 3 rounds. Hell, even DE could be an early pick, although Id hate it.


Chris Carter Adrian Robinson Jason Worilds plus Woodley. Chris Carter didn't live up to some of the expectations when he got the starting nod. But just him starting showed me that the Steelers trusted him. Right now Robinson Worilds and Carter are cheap. If any of them do anything this season they shows promise they'll continue to be cheap. Thus keeping the Steelers out of salary cap trouble going into the future. Not saying that #17 is overly expensive, but keeping expensive position cheap is good.

I know how you feel about Worilds and ever so slightly I agree. What I think the Steelers could do to maximize the chances of success for Worilds is move him to LOLB and let Woodley play ROLB. Worilds best games came when Woodley was out. Plus he's more of a drag down sacker then forcing turnovers.

I agree that all position outside the two you mentioned are all open. The question I have is that do the Steelers draft a player that can help now or a player that will sit and help later.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 14856
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: Some thoughts and a mock Reply with quote

AlanFanecaFan wrote:


-LeBeau has stated that they need to groom a safety behind Clark and Troy...I wonder what happen come late April.

1) Kenny Vaccaro FS Texas
2) Giovanni Bernard RB UNC
3) Corey Lemonier OLB Auburn
4) Brian Winters OG/OT Kent St
5) Sanders Commings CB UGA
6) Conner Vernon WR Duke
6) Josh Boyd NT Miss St
7) Jonathan Stewart ILB Texas AM


I'd be really surprised not to see Webb in our draft class. Considering he's from William & Mary.

Now, as for the Pick I bolded and the LeBeau statement; I know 43 and some others aren't very high on Vaccaro and I understand that in an above comment he was referenced as a FS, but there is one 'potential fact' here about Vaccaro. If the Pittsburgh Steelers draft Kenny Vaccaro, it's going to be to play SS not FS. Read some analysis on him, seriously, and ask yourself who he sounds like on our team. I will almost guarantee that at least 8 out of 10 of you will say Troy Polamalu. His style, while he played FS at Texas is actually more similiar to that of Troy, he is a wreckless tackler who will help in run support and can do virtually anything you need him to do on the football field. The fact that he's a Jack of All Trades and perhaps a 'master of none' isn't the worst thing in the world, he's teachable, especially with Lake.

The two worst depth spots on our team right now is OLB and S without a doubt. We have very little at OLB and nothing behind Clark or Troy if either of them get injured. Troy has been injured frequently over the last few seasons.

I wouldn't be shocked if Kenny isn't our pick at 17, I won't be shocked if he is.

As for the the other pick I pointed out, I don't know alot about Vernon, is he a candidate for moving to TE? The reason I ask is because..he's not very fast, at all. It may hinder him significantly as a WR in the NFL. I like the rest of the draft. I specifically like Bernard although he sort of reminds me of the Steeler fans' love for Jorvorskie Lane.. who was severely over hyped.
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armsteeld


Joined: 01 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vernon as TE? Laughing You may wanna look at his size. Dude is a runt!
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jebrick


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a deep safety class. They may not go there in the first round.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
Vernon as TE? Laughing You may wanna look at his size. Dude is a runt!


I know he is, that's actually why I posed the question. I don't know enough about him to know whether or not he is a guy capable of putting on some weight and keeping his effectiveness. My guess is that's not logical or realistic, which makes me not like him as a pick for us.
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ImissEricGreen


Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 1033
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Some thoughts and a mock Reply with quote

Quote:
-Overall they didn't value the guys that left...Colbert basically stated that when he said "those were guys from an 8-8 team" (paraphrasing)


Terrible logic....especially considering our cap situation
.
[/quote]Best logic I every heard considering Colbert gave thought of signing Lake Long. The only thing that puzzles me is the resigning of Gay as nickel corner, Curtis Brown must be garbage and he was your man heading into the draft that year.
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steelkev43


Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: Some thoughts and a mock Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
AlanFanecaFan wrote:
A few things on my mind after free agency.

-Colbert and Co obviously didn't value Lewis as much as we did...failure to even offer a deal shows that.


1) We dont even know if thats 100% true.
2) If it is, it may be because we knew we couldnt afford him. Its unlikely he wouldve given us the same deal he gave the Saints.

Quote:
-Overall they didn't value the guys that left...Colbert basically stated that when he said "those were guys from an 8-8 team" (paraphrasing)


Terrible logic....especially considering our cap situation.

Quote:
-LeBeau has stated that they need to groom a safety behind Clark and Troy...I wonder what happen come late April.


Obviously, thats true, because we have absolutely nothing behind them.

Doesnt mean you force the pick.

Quote:
-People complaining over resigning Gay, Spaeth and Foote need to relax. They're needed stopgaps and depth.


I agree with this completely.


Quote:
1) Kenny Vaccaro FS Texas
2) Giovanni Bernard RB UNC
3) Corey Lemonier OLB Auburn
4) Brian Winters OG/OT Kent St
5) Sanders Commings CB UGA
6) Conner Vernon WR Duke
6) Josh Boyd NT Miss St
7) Jonathan Stewart ILB Texas AM


First two rounds alone make me hate it.

Two overrated players, especially Bernard. Very weak RB class which inflates his stock. 4th round talent IMO.

Vacarro isnt bad, but top 20? No thanks.

Honestly, after that, Lemonier and Boyd are the only ones I know,. The positions are fine, but cant really comment on the players. Lemonier and Boyd are fine.

I give it a C.


Hmm what can Mark Barron, who went top-10 last year, do that Kenny Vacarro can't? Maybe he brings the lumber a bit more but Vacarro can line up on WR's whereas Barron struggles in that situation.
I think Bernard would be a perfect compliment to Dwyer/Redman. Guy has great vision and pad level.

I like the draft and feel like it is pretty representative of what might truly happen on draft weekend. I just wish we had room for a WR in the first 4 rounds.
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 467
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work AFF. Agree with your introduction.

I like Vaccaro. Took me awhile to come around on him, but I think he serves our needs well especially with Troy going down at anytime. Like his versatility, think he could develop nicely behind P&C. Lake could refine his technique and he could be a solid starter maybe as soon as 2014.
Bernard compliments Redman & Dwyer. Everytime I watch tape on a defensive player playing NC I end up watching Bernard dominate.
Lemonier I like pretty well. For a 3rd rounder, definitely sign him up.
Winters looks good. Would be nice addition to the line. Not as familiar with the other 4 but after taking a cursory glance at them, looks to be pretty solid. My only complaint would be waiting so long to pick up a WR but you did a good job trying to cover our many holes.
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