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an interesting idea.

 
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r_sayle


Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 363
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: an interesting idea. Reply with quote

i know we have a a few holes we need to fill and a lot of people are saying about using our first on a WR if one fell but how would everyone feel about Victor Cruz. Granted we would have to give up our first rounder but would any WR left be as good as Victor Cruz??
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dcarey20


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we had a ton of cap space I'd be down, but its just not possible as he's going to need a new deal likely in the Mike Wallace range.

What I'd like to see us do is nab a stopgap veteran guy on a cheap 1 or 2 year deal to be the #2. Kevin Walter would be a great fit IMO, or maybe even Brandon Lloyd.
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mddeckie


Joined: 07 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcarey20 wrote:
If we had a ton of cap space I'd be down, but its just not possible as he's going to need a new deal likely in the Mike Wallace range.

What I'd like to see us do is nab a stopgap veteran guy on a cheap 1 or 2 year deal to be the #2. Kevin Walter would be a great fit IMO, or maybe even Brandon Lloyd.


I was going to say the same. He didn't pan out in New England and has plenty to prove and could be cheap
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GaTechRavens


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely hate the idea of giving up a 1st rounder under pretty much any circumstance.
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
I absolutely hate the idea of giving up a 1st rounder under pretty much any circumstance.


Pretty sure Ozzie feels the same way. After the boller trade that gave the pats wilfork in the following year.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see the Ravens going after Cruz considering the cap space and draft pick it would take to acquire (and keep) him. Especially if the Dumervil rumors are true.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
I absolutely hate the idea of giving up a 1st rounder under pretty much any circumstance.


Even if you're trading it for a guy who can THROW A FOOTBALL THROUGH THE UPRIGHTS FROM THE 50 YARD LINE ON ONE KNEE?!?
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
I absolutely hate the idea of giving up a 1st rounder under pretty much any circumstance.


The pick wouldn't bother me much because you know what you're getting with Cruz, and there aren't likely many WRs we could get in the draft that would be that good or productive.

But the money required to sign Cruz long term would be a deal killer, and makes the idea virtually impossible.
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a big fan of Cruz. I definitely think he's a legit star WR and I would part with a late 1st for him.

That said, I can't see us affording to give him an offer that the Giants wouldn't match.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. Just no. Victor Cruz is a nice receiver but he also has a great chemistry with Eli. The two just seem to know what each others thinking every time. I think both players receive a synergetic boost from that relationship. With us, I'm not confident that Cruz develops the same chemistry boost with Flacco...

Plus you have us giving up a 1st rounder. I'd much rather we take the 4 years of production that DeAndre Hopkins could provide us with our 1st round pick.. and THEN sign him to a deal, than to take Cruz on an increased deal while also giving up our pick. I'll never agree to an idea that has us reducing two of our most useful team resources (money, picks), I just can't think of any scenario where it would be worth it. Someone like Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald would be worth the pick, but not the $14-19 we'd need to pay.. and they're probably the best two examples of people that could be exceptions to the rule.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
I absolutely hate the idea of giving up a 1st rounder under pretty much any circumstance.


The pick wouldn't bother me much because you know what you're getting with Cruz, and there aren't likely many WRs we could get in the draft that would be that good or productive.

But the money required to sign Cruz long term would be a deal killer, and makes the idea virtually impossible.


But how often do we see teams pick up a FA WR because "they know what they're getting", and it blows up in their face? I'd wager it to be probably above 70%. Those types of pick ups rarely ever work out in FA, let alone giving up a first in the process.
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GaTechRavens


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
I absolutely hate the idea of giving up a 1st rounder under pretty much any circumstance.


Even if you're trading it for a guy who can THROW A FOOTBALL THROUGH THE UPRIGHTS FROM THE 50 YARD LINE ON ONE KNEE?!?


He spits a GIANT PEARL 100 FEET IN THE AIR
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
I absolutely hate the idea of giving up a 1st rounder under pretty much any circumstance.


The pick wouldn't bother me much because you know what you're getting with Cruz, and there aren't likely many WRs we could get in the draft that would be that good or productive.

But the money required to sign Cruz long term would be a deal killer, and makes the idea virtually impossible.


But how often do we see teams pick up a FA WR because "they know what they're getting", and it blows up in their face? I'd wager it to be probably above 70%. Those types of pick ups rarely ever work out in FA, let alone giving up a first in the process.

This is my exact perspective. Just look at Anquan Boldin, the guy was a consistent 1000+ yds, 5+ touchdown guy before coming here. He was supposed to pair with Mason and give us two 1000 yd guys that we could bring to the table. Yet he's been more of a 850+ 4 tds kind of guy most of his time here...

And sure one can say, "Cam Cameron just didn't know how to use Boldin"... well maybe Caldwell wouldn't know how to utilize Cruz in the same ways the Giants are that make him such a prolific threat... maybe whatever system he puts in place isn't completely compatible with Cruz's talents.

The fact of the matter is, not all sure things work out in the NFL. And WRs workout even less. The only WRs I'd be willing to bank on being "sure things" are the big physical athletic ones... and those guys are top 5 talents. They're the Megatron and Fitzgerald's. Back in the day TO was also a sure thing (and a sure cancer). But we have to remember that not even Randy Moss in his prime was a sure thing... and Prime Moss just might have been the most unstoppable threat in the NFL. Oakland traded a top 10 pick to get him... and he busted in their collective faces.

The difference between a top 10 pick and ours and Prime Moss to Cruz is about the same. We have greater organizational structure, but Cruz also represents a much lower talent. The same result is equally probable so there is just absolutely no reason to damage the future of this team for the 'possibility' that Cruz could increase the potency of our team.

We draft well enough, I'd rather trust in our scouting prowess to do that.
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
I absolutely hate the idea of giving up a 1st rounder under pretty much any circumstance.


The pick wouldn't bother me much because you know what you're getting with Cruz, and there aren't likely many WRs we could get in the draft that would be that good or productive.

But the money required to sign Cruz long term would be a deal killer, and makes the idea virtually impossible.


But how often do we see teams pick up a FA WR because "they know what they're getting", and it blows up in their face? I'd wager it to be probably above 70%. Those types of pick ups rarely ever work out in FA, let alone giving up a first in the process.


I'd say that the fail rate for free agent WRs isn't drastically different than most other positions. I won't try to guess a percentage, and it might be higher than some other positions, but a lot of CBs, OTs, and LBs are free agent flops too on par with WRs, but we have pursued in the past, or are currently pursuing players at those positions.

You can't go into a contract or trade negotiation with the idea that X% of guys at this position fail when they switch teams. You have to trust your evaluations, just like you do on draft day.

Besides, I view this more as a trade than a true free agent signing if we were to be interested in Cruz. We traded for Q, and tried to trade for TO in the past, so I don't see any difference between those moves and surrendering a pick if we sign Victor Cruz.

I understand your point in principle, but I disagree with it in this instance. Cruz is a legitimate #1 WR in my opinion, and whoever he signs with is getting a helluva player.

But we still aren't going to make a move on him, as I stated before, because the money will likely be too big for our current cap to absorb, and the Giants would just match a backloaded deal...I see no reason for Ozzie to do Jerry Reese's job for him.
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