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Free Agent Eric Winton (whats it take to get him here)
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ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as Martin....I'm done debating the topic for now....I've stated my opinion on the subject and would prefer not to "beat a dead horse"....

As far as Winston....I think he would be an asset to the team....not only as a vocal leader, but as a guy who can hold down one fo the tackle positions allowing the front office to really focus on BPA in the draft. There is no reason he can't come in and give the Phins two good to very good years on the right side while another player develops behind him or someone younger becomes available.

With the draft...I really like the idea of Cooper at 12...he would be a great fit in the scheme and would flourish playing between Pouncey and Winston.
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Russ57


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 682
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me thinks y'all are stuck in man blocking thought mode and trying to project it to a zone blocking scheme. You guys want elite tackles and the best guards in the draft. You act like your dream draft would be Luke Joeckel, Jonathan Cooper, Pouncey, Chance Warmack, and D.J. Fulker.

A zbs line doesn't need elite players. We should be looking for guys in the later rounds that are under sized and have quick feet. I'm suggesting we look at guys more like Terron Armstead, Alvin Bailey, and David Quessenberry.

WRT pass protection we must move towards 3 step drops, WR screens, and shorter pass plays (and I'm concerned because wallace and hartline run deeper routes and bess needs double moves). WRT to goal line/3rd we need a power back like Le'Von Bell.....or better yet go get me a 3 down back that is 5 foot something, 230#+, 4.4something 40, that can run,block, and catch.

I would SO rather have Eifert than Cooper at 12 despite the huge reach that he is. Those that pay attention to my posts know I want a DT so we can cut one of ours next year and have a ton more cap space to spend on some offensive weapons and a compliment to wake.

Times have changed. Who cares if you can run the ball or stop the run. You need to make sure you get a TD every time you have the ball. On defense, forget how many yards they get and concentrate on creating turnovers.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1920
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ57 wrote:
Me thinks y'all are stuck in man blocking thought mode and trying to project it to a zone blocking scheme. You guys want elite tackles and the best guards in the draft. You act like your dream draft would be Luke Joeckel, Jonathan Cooper, Pouncey, Chance Warmack, and D.J. Fulker.

A zbs line doesn't need elite players. We should be looking for guys in the later rounds that are under sized and have quick feet. I'm suggesting we look at guys more like Terron Armstead, Alvin Bailey, and David Quessenberry.

WRT pass protection we must move towards 3 step drops, WR screens, and shorter pass plays (and I'm concerned because wallace and hartline run deeper routes and bess needs double moves). WRT to goal line/3rd we need a power back like Le'Von Bell.....or better yet go get me a 3 down back that is 5 foot something, 230#+, 4.4something 40, that can run,block, and catch.

I would SO rather have Eifert than Cooper at 12 despite the huge reach that he is. Those that pay attention to my posts know I want a DT so we can cut one of ours next year and have a ton more cap space to spend on some offensive weapons and a compliment to wake.

Times have changed. Who cares if you can run the ball or stop the run. You need to make sure you get a TD every time you have the ball. On defense, forget how many yards they get and concentrate on creating turnovers.
who cares if we run the ball? The 2 teams in the superbowl were dominate run teams it still matters. I can only speak for myself cause I like cooper but his strenght is pass blocking and getting out to the second leval in the screen game. We need to develope a dominate screen game and the majority of the good teams in this league have one,it puts doubts in pass rushers minds and pouncey and cooper excite me in that area. At the same time I agree with what you say there are solid G's to be had later and I am one of the few guys that would welcome Sheldon Richardson to miami he gives us a DT type we have never had. I just think cooper is elite but would have no problem with what your saying.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6745
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ57 wrote:
Me thinks y'all are stuck in man blocking thought mode and trying to project it to a zone blocking scheme. You guys want elite tackles and the best guards in the draft. You act like your dream draft would be Luke Joeckel, Jonathan Cooper, Pouncey, Chance Warmack, and D.J. Fulker.

A zbs line doesn't need elite players. We should be looking for guys in the later rounds that are under sized and have quick feet. I'm suggesting we look at guys more like Terron Armstead, Alvin Bailey, and David Quessenberry.

WRT pass protection we must move towards 3 step drops, WR screens, and shorter pass plays (and I'm concerned because wallace and hartline run deeper routes and bess needs double moves). WRT to goal line/3rd we need a power back like Le'Von Bell.....or better yet go get me a 3 down back that is 5 foot something, 230#+, 4.4something 40, that can run,block, and catch.

I would SO rather have Eifert than Cooper at 12 despite the huge reach that he is. Those that pay attention to my posts know I want a DT so we can cut one of ours next year and have a ton more cap space to spend on some offensive weapons and a compliment to wake.

Times have changed. Who cares if you can run the ball or stop the run. You need to make sure you get a TD every time you have the ball. On defense, forget how many yards they get and concentrate on creating turnovers.


I disagree buddy.
Finding 300 + pd men who can both pass Pro & roll out (pull) in unison 25 - 30 yds while blocking ...
I mean those guys just don't fall off trees like some 335 pd schlub standing there trading licks in an upright position taking 5 steps forward ...
The cardio stamina alone is far more demanding.

And I'm not even debating Cooper vs Eifert from a talent perspective.
But being that we signed Keller & we have Chareles Clay I'd favor Cooper.
Bottom line - we are in need of 2 - 3 new starting Olinemen.

just sayin
sug
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Russ57


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 682
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me try this again minus all the beers!

First, it goes without saying that zone blocking is about getting positive yards on running plays. Therefore running the ball is clearly important. When I said "who cares about running the ball" I was intending to convey that we need to get away from being viewed as a "run first" team.

My idea of the perfect zbs line guy would be those on the tall rangy side. Guys that are athletic, nimble, and fast. Often these players are viewed as having durability and leverage concerns so they aren't drafted as high by other teams. I'd like guys that could run high 4's in the 40, mid 4's in the 20 yard shuttle, and and mid 7's in the 3 cone. Now those numbers are on the elite side so a compromise might be needed. Point is a lot of teams are going to shy away from a 6'5" 295 pound tackle.

We have a lot of late round draft picks. All I'm suggesting is we use a few on guys like Reid Fragle or even Tanner Hawkinson. And while I don't think he would be a late round guy Kyle Long is a good example of the type of OL guy that I would target. So is Quessenberry to a lesser extent.

We all want the best for our team. If money was no object, sure give me a bunch of first round picks on my OL. But money is a factor, and given that we run a zbs, I'd rather have my first round talent on my DL than my OL. Besides, think how much cap space we would have next year if we draft DT/DE, extend Odrick while he is cheap and move him inside, and then trade Solia and Starks.

No matter what, I firmly think this team needs two great TE's. Guys with size and speed. We don't have any that have both of those traits.
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