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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1992
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnathon Martin struggled his rookie year even the Martin supporters will tell you that but it was his ROOKIE YEAR. John Elway was over matched his rookie year how that turn out? BAD EXAMPLE? Andre Smith was a bust his rookie year now he has been to back to back pro bowls,Anthony Davis of the 49ers was getting run out here is rookie year now people here love him. I could go on and on nobody is for handing him the job but for people to say Martin is a terrible football player and needs to do steriods to ever be good based on a rookie season is absurd absolutely absurd.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6826
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see some of you guys are seeing the reality that is our Oline for what it really is.
We could in all honesty use a new LT & 2 new OGs.

I would point out that someone mentioned a sweet scenario that if SD signed Winston we may still get a
crack at one of the top 3 LT Studs.
Not to mention that if KC resigned B. Albert that could also benefit us.
My "Hope" is that 1 or 2 QBs get drafted early dropping a LT our way.

Then again, as I've been saying all of last wk, I wouldn't rule out packaging D. Bess & one of our 2nds to move up & put this nightmare behind us once & for all.
Why not .. it's not like D.Bess is in our long term mold anyways, help generate an asset !

sug
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dolphan9954


Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 6955
Location: Miami
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a dream world?

Martin/Incognito/Pouncey/Cooper/Winston

Garner, Jerry, Samuda as the main reserves, draft an OT somewhere to develop as a LT, pick up a cheap vet to compete at LT.
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green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be pleasantly suprised if Martin becomes a solid starting OT in the NFL next year.

I'm rooting for him, I honestly am, but from what I've seen so far I can't expect him to be a good option for a starting OT, either right or left.

I understand that it was his rookie year last year, but the kid was physically demolished time and time again....and it wasn't the kind of physical whooping where 1 Off Season of weight training is going to magically make him competetive.

IMO there is something definately wrong with Martin. I don't know what it is, but he didn't belong on the field last year from a production standpoint.

It's way too early to call him a bust, but I would say he was certainly dissapointing in his rookie year.
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green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
In a dream world?

Martin/Incognito/Pouncey/Cooper/Winston

Garner, Jerry, Samuda as the main reserves, draft an OT somewhere to develop as a LT, pick up a cheap vet to compete at LT.


The Right side looks like a Dream......but the Left side is more like a Nightmare LoL.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6826
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

green4gulf wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
In a dream world?

Martin/Incognito/Pouncey/Cooper/Winston

Garner, Jerry, Samuda as the main reserves, draft an OT somewhere to develop as a LT, pick up a cheap vet to compete at LT.


The Right side looks like a Dream......but the Left side is more like a Nightmare LoL.


Clearly even with Incognito in there we lack "pulling capabilities".
That could easily affect designed "Roll Out" passing plays so common in the WC Off.

By my count we are in need of 3 new Olinemen provided Martin shows growth.
If not then 4 new Olinemen.

Kinda screwed
dig
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IbleedMiamiAqua


Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Posts: 25
Location: elmira new york
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best case senario for me is this...
-draft cooper at 12, he's super athletic he can play center and guard. He can pull the way we need our guards to pull..tannehill is dangerous on the move because he is athletic enough to take off
-draft Barrett jones in the second. He can also play center but would be a fantastic guard in the ZBS. Now have cooper pouncey and jones on the interior of the line. That's a young super athletic line to grow together. The pocket can roll. The guards and center have the ability to get to the second level on tannehill designed runs.
-I'd sign Winston as well just to fill the hole for a year or 2 until we develop our young guy(whenever and whoever that happens to be)
That leaves 1 second 2 thirds to get a contributing corner and a contributing pass rush specialist.
- if these things happen and Martin comes to play the line is a strength the pass game will be a strength and d line is always a strength and the linebackers and safety's are a strength.
-this team competes this year and next offseason well have the draft and all offseason to land a ball hawk for the secondary and an every down legit threat to play on the end opposite of wake...and if the young guys(cooper jones Martin tannehill and miller) continue to grow were a legit contender in 2014
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ovaw8lover


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 9078
Location: Dolphins Stadium
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Jake long sucked [inappropriate/removed] and you don't mention it at all ... your source says he was 46th ranked tackle in the league and you wanted to dole out 8mil. for him.

Thats a bias that's not supported by facts. You are repetitive about martin and silent on jake long.

Nobody suggested that jonathan martin is the answer ... we all have agreed that he needs competition at the position. But it makes your bashing sound better when you paint the picture that everybody is giving him the starting position. Nobody is singing Martin's praises.

Acknowledge an abysmal season from the middle of said season until the draft of the following season, but it's not bashing ?

Your take on jonathan martin is equivelant to fox news take on the president.


I will be one of the first to admit Jake's production has dropped with injury. I also do not believe he is the best fit for Philbin's system. However, Miami is not picking in the top 6 and not in prime position to take a premier LT so they should have resigned Long. Martin should be considered a backup swing OT at this point. He cannot play OG because he is too weak.

If Miami resigns Jake Long they then could concentrate on OG.
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Mercury22


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Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12825
Location: the 50 yard line
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:


Your take on jonathan martin is equivelant to fox news take on the president.


Well at least you aren't trying to characterize me. Brick wall
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dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5594
Location: New York
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
dolphinologist wrote:


Your take on jonathan martin is equivelant to fox news take on the president.


Well at least you aren't trying to characterize me. Brick wall


Merc, "your take" is something you own .... it is not you.

I've always been a proponent of individuals acknowledging the difference between themselves and their opinions. I'm not going to assume that you don't believe this, but I can only go by what you've just said. I submitted a response to your opinion. Your character is formed by a meld of your choices and actions. Two different things. Again, I don't know if you know this or not. I don't want to come off condescending or like I'm trying to educate you. There are people from all walks of life, cultures and traditions who thinks Martin sucks, and there are others who think it's okay to give him time to develop. This does not confirm that any of these people share character traits. Completely separate and out of respect, not up for discussion.

I guess my point is that I'm not characterizing you, I'm diving in to a specific topic.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1992
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
In a dream world?

Martin/Incognito/Pouncey/Cooper/Winston

Garner, Jerry, Samuda as the main reserves, draft an OT somewhere to develop as a LT, pick up a cheap vet to compete at LT.
Barring a major shakeup in the draft, Cooper is the leader in the clubhouse for me at 12 and teaming him up with pouncey for the next 8 years or so
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Mercury22


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Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12825
Location: the 50 yard line
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
dolphinologist wrote:


Your take on jonathan martin is equivelant to fox news take on the president.


Well at least you aren't trying to characterize me. Brick wall


Merc, "your take" is something you own .... it is not you.

I've always been a proponent of individuals acknowledging the difference between themselves and their opinions. I'm not going to assume that you don't believe this, but I can only go by what you've just said. I submitted a response to your opinion. Your character is formed by a meld of your choices and actions. Two different things. Again, I don't know if you know this or not. I don't want to come off condescending or like I'm trying to educate you. There are people from all walks of life, cultures and traditions who thinks Martin sucks, and there are others who think it's okay to give him time to develop. This does not confirm that any of these people share character traits. Completely separate and out of respect, not up for discussion.

I guess my point is that I'm not characterizing you, I'm diving in to a specific topic.


My issue is that you frequently gloss over the complexity of my statements and generalize to a limited number of talking points. By so doing, you create a caricature of me and what I've said. Let me give you an example.

example: You say I am silent on Jake Long, despite the previous post of mine to which you were commenting, has a lengthy comparison of PFF numbers between Long and Martin. I point out that Jake Long's play was FAR superior to Martin's (long grades out on the season with a -0.4 while Martin grades out with a -22 . So I wasn't at all silent on Jake Long. When you characterize me as being "silent" on Long I object.



The veracity of my arguments regarding Martin are a direct reaction to the minimization of Martin's flaws from you and others on these boards. As well as a response to the caricature you paint of me when you respond to my commentary. I haven't given up on Martin, I haven't said won't improve, I haven't said he is a lost cause. He did get beat down as a rookie, and he was totally out of place as a starter. That isn't bashing him, no matter how many times you suggest it is. It is an acknowledgement of fact.
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ovaw8lover


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 9078
Location: Dolphins Stadium
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
In a dream world?

Martin/Incognito/Pouncey/Cooper/Winston

Garner, Jerry, Samuda as the main reserves, draft an OT somewhere to develop as a LT, pick up a cheap vet to compete at LT.
Barring a major shakeup in the draft, Cooper is the leader in the clubhouse for me at 12 and teaming him up with pouncey for the next 8 years or so


I do not believe he is better than the Alabama OG.
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Blagasse67


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11319
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
fishfan4life wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
In a dream world?

Martin/Incognito/Pouncey/Cooper/Winston

Garner, Jerry, Samuda as the main reserves, draft an OT somewhere to develop as a LT, pick up a cheap vet to compete at LT.
Barring a major shakeup in the draft, Cooper is the leader in the clubhouse for me at 12 and teaming him up with pouncey for the next 8 years or so


I do not believe he is better than the Alabama OG.


Cooper is a better G in our system that Chance Warmack is in our system
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1992
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
ovaw8lover wrote:
fishfan4life wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
In a dream world?

Martin/Incognito/Pouncey/Cooper/Winston

Garner, Jerry, Samuda as the main reserves, draft an OT somewhere to develop as a LT, pick up a cheap vet to compete at LT.
Barring a major shakeup in the draft, Cooper is the leader in the clubhouse for me at 12 and teaming him up with pouncey for the next 8 years or so


I do not believe he is better than the Alabama OG.


Cooper is a better G in our system that Chance Warmack is in our system
agreed.. I like warmack and although I think he can play any scheme to me he is better for man but is a great prospect regardless. I guess it's just a matter of what flavor you prefer but to me Cooper is a zone wrecking machine who has elite feet and athleticism . Something else that doesn't get talked about is he brings versatility he can move to center should something happen to pouncey injury or whatever may happen and play just as good as he does at G. Another reason I said cooper is I believe Warmack could end up with the Titans who pick at 10 with MIke Munchack there head coach and him wanting a dominate run game.
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