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ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin on the right could be possible....granted he seemed more comfortable on the left last season, that doesn't mean a full off-season of working RT doesn't pay off.

I could also easily see the Dolphins package their second 3rd rounder with their 1st and move up a couple of spots to land Johnson if that is what they are after.

The team still has money to spend (have they hit the salary floor yet?) and time before the draft to make some more moves.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Martin on the right could be possible....granted he seemed more comfortable on the left last season


He may have been more comfortable but he played poorly. His two worst games of the entire year occurred on the left side. Even if he had the same level of play on both sides, he should still stay on the right side, since his play has been poor and you don't put someone that is that much of a liability on the QB's blindside. It would be irresponsible of Philbin to allow Martin to man the left side based on what we saw last year.
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ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Martin on the right could be possible....granted he seemed more comfortable on the left last season


He may have been more comfortable but he played poorly. His two worst games of the entire year occurred on the left side. Even if he had the same level of play on both sides, he should still stay on the right side, since his play has been poor and you don't put someone that is that much of a liability on the QB's blindside. It would be irresponsible of Philbin to allow Martin to man the left side based on what we saw last year.


But his 2 best games were on the left side....

I don't think Philbin is a dumb man by any means, in fact he seem very cold and calculating when dealing with players (though well respected)...he seems like the type of coach that has no problem having Martin sit on the bench. With that said it would be bad move to come out and say the team needs a LT because Martin can't get the job done....the last thing he should do is kill any confidence a young developing player has. I am in the "lets see if Martin can develop" camp....that is not an endorsement of handing him the starting position, but also not one to give up on the kid because he performed poorly as a rookie in a newish position.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Martin on the right could be possible....granted he seemed more comfortable on the left last season


He may have been more comfortable but he played poorly. His two worst games of the entire year occurred on the left side. Even if he had the same level of play on both sides, he should still stay on the right side, since his play has been poor and you don't put someone that is that much of a liability on the QB's blindside. It would be irresponsible of Philbin to allow Martin to man the left side based on what we saw last year.


But his 2 best games were on the left side....

.


No. His worst two games came on the left side. He did have his "best" game of the year on the left side against lowly Buffalo, but not his best two games. His 2nd best game came as a RT against Seattle.

He struggled mightily on the left side. The meme that he played better on the left side is false and yet regularly perpetuated by people of this forum. He played poorly on both sides of the line, but he was worse on the left side, despite one good game against a poor opponent.

Its also worthy of note that Martin, generally, got worse as the season wore on, regardless of the side he played on as a pass blocker. He improved, marginally, as a run blocker.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it all depends on what report you read or trust just the other day the miami herald reported the dolphins wanted Martin to play LT next year. It could be a sign against Martin or against Winston. Winston has been very tough in contract talks in the past and maybe he relizes this might be his last chance at payday who knows. I know this despite what some think in this forum the tackle position in this draft is weak after the top 3 and we would have to trade up to get them. This is a dangerous game we are playing with our offensive line that has been trouble for YEARS.
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TheKillerNacho


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why have we not signed this guy yet?? I really don't want to lose him to the Chargers, like we lost him to the Chiefs last year.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe its a possibility that they view Jerry at RT and have there eyes set on Johnathon cooper or signing brandon moore.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell you guys what, by the time I saw Martin with my own 2 eyes here in S.F. he was not only emasculated at the line he was scared.
Drew a couple flags if I recall correctly.

If there is one thing clear in mind it's:
A). He does deserve an oportunity to compete as the starting LT
B). We owe ourselves & Tanny every opportunity to succeed at LT by any means necessary. If that means burning up a 2nd rnd pk & Devon Bess to get the wheels turning to move up, so be it.
Martins personal feelings be damned.

May the best man win.
sug
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point 3rd to a Dolphins Superbowl and overall team health, I want NOTHING more than the success of Jonathan Martin. I want it bad. Real bad.
I'm weird that way ... nothing stimulates me more to become a fan of someone than consistant bashing of said someone. Yeah, talent helps, but it's like a campaign. And all it does is make me root for him with everything I've got. If this dude made the pro-bowl, I'd probably pass out from happiness.

I'm weird that way. It's how I became a fan of Drake and Nicki Minaj. It also works in reverse. Which explains my feelings in regards to Bill Parcells and Jake Long is on the On Deck circle. Why you ask ???

same source being used to crap on Jonathan Martin has this to say about Jake Long ...

Quote:
There are plenty of factors that play into Long being our most overvalued offensive tackle of 2012. For starters, he played in just 12 games and was in the final year of a monster contract that he received as a former first-overall draft pick under the old Collective Bargaining Agreement. Beyond that, however, he just wasn’t very good last year. Ranking 46th among all offensive tackles, Long had a particularly poor outing against the Indianapolis Colts, but — as his 95.7 Pass Blocking Efficiency (PBE) Rating suggests — his struggled were year long, preventing him from coming close to that astronomical valuation.


All of a sudden after playing in MBS without incident, a scheme switch brings on a rash of injuries. But I remember poor play very well. Particularly in the Meadowlands against the Giants under Daboll. Actually let's take a walk down memory lane.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/11/25/3111919/decline-of-miami-dolphins-jake.html

The funny thing is, John Jerry was by far the worst lineman and not a peep about him. I guess jake long would have had to been the guard he was replacing for that to get any attention.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
At this point 3rd to a Dolphins Superbowl and overall team health, I want NOTHING more than the success of Jonathan Martin. I want it bad. Real bad.
I'm weird that way ... nothing stimulates me more to become a fan of someone than consistant bashing of said someone. Yeah, talent helps, but it's like a campaign. And all it does is make me root for him with everything I've got. If this dude made the pro-bowl, I'd probably pass out from happiness.

I'm weird that way. It's how I became a fan of Drake and Nicki Minaj. It also works in reverse. Which explains my feelings in regards to Bill Parcells and Jake Long is on the On Deck circle. Why you ask ???

same source being used to crap on Jonathan Martin has this to say about Jake Long ...

Quote:
There are plenty of factors that play into Long being our most overvalued offensive tackle of 2012. For starters, he played in just 12 games and was in the final year of a monster contract that he received as a former first-overall draft pick under the old Collective Bargaining Agreement. Beyond that, however, he just wasn’t very good last year. Ranking 46th among all offensive tackles, Long had a particularly poor outing against the Indianapolis Colts, but — as his 95.7 Pass Blocking Efficiency (PBE) Rating suggests — his struggled were year long, preventing him from coming close to that astronomical valuation.


All of a sudden after playing in MBS without incident, a scheme switch brings on a rash of injuries. But I remember poor play very well. Particularly in the Meadowlands against the Giants under Daboll. Actually let's take a walk down memory lane.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/11/25/3111919/decline-of-miami-dolphins-jake.html

The funny thing is, John Jerry was by far the worst lineman and not a peep about him. I guess jake long would have had to been the guard he was replacing for that to get any attention.
I am right there with you I am rooting for Martin and think he is going to be a solid NFL tackle. I could spend the whole day naming tackles who struggled there rookie year and ended up being good to great tackles in this league. The good news is his issue is strenght the even better news is there are a ton of weights on the facility infact he is probably lifting them as I type.
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ovaw8lover


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Martin on the right could be possible....granted he seemed more comfortable on the left last season


He may have been more comfortable but he played poorly. His two worst games of the entire year occurred on the left side. Even if he had the same level of play on both sides, he should still stay on the right side, since his play has been poor and you don't put someone that is that much of a liability on the QB's blindside. It would be irresponsible of Philbin to allow Martin to man the left side based on what we saw last year.


But his 2 best games were on the left side....

.


No. His worst two games came on the left side. He did have his "best" game of the year on the left side against lowly Buffalo, but not his best two games. His 2nd best game came as a RT against Seattle.

He struggled mightily on the left side. The meme that he played better on the left side is false and yet regularly perpetuated by people of this forum. He played poorly on both sides of the line, but he was worse on the left side, despite one good game against a poor opponent.

Its also worthy of note that Martin, generally, got worse as the season wore on, regardless of the side he played on as a pass blocker. He improved, marginally, as a run blocker.


I disagree. I think he was worse on the right and left side. The same things that haunted him on the right side (getting overpowered) were the same things that plagued him on the left side. The 49ers raped him when they played. It is one thing to get beat by technique but another when you get thrown into the lap of your QB. No good offensive lineman is physically weak. In fact, Martin is making me place a ding on all players with smart parents that attend good schools. I am pissed they did not resign Jake Long.
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Jaytotha


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am ok if the chargers take him. Means a guy might fall in the draft
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
Martin on the right could be possible....granted he seemed more comfortable on the left last season


He may have been more comfortable but he played poorly. His two worst games of the entire year occurred on the left side. Even if he had the same level of play on both sides, he should still stay on the right side, since his play has been poor and you don't put someone that is that much of a liability on the QB's blindside. It would be irresponsible of Philbin to allow Martin to man the left side based on what we saw last year.


But his 2 best games were on the left side....

.


No. His worst two games came on the left side. He did have his "best" game of the year on the left side against lowly Buffalo, but not his best two games. His 2nd best game came as a RT against Seattle.

He struggled mightily on the left side. The meme that he played better on the left side is false and yet regularly perpetuated by people of this forum. He played poorly on both sides of the line, but he was worse on the left side, despite one good game against a poor opponent.

Its also worthy of note that Martin, generally, got worse as the season wore on, regardless of the side he played on as a pass blocker. He improved, marginally, as a run blocker.


I disagree. I think he was worse on the right and left side. The same things that haunted him on the right side (getting overpowered) were the same things that plagued him on the left side. The 49ers raped him when they played. It is one thing to get beat by technique but another when you get thrown into the lap of your QB. No good offensive lineman is physically weak. In fact, Martin is making me place a ding on all players with smart parents that attend good schools. I am pissed they did not resign Jake Long.


Jake Long....really...he was bad in this offense and that was a vet, not a rookie a freaking vet that played poorly. I find it funny you will give up on a rookie who performed poorly, but would want to retain a high priced vet that also performed almost as bad (lets be honest....one we get past the top 35 the difference is slight). I am happy the Dolphins didn't sign Long....HE DOESN'T FIT THE SYSTEM! I guess if you really wanted him back I can loan you a mallet to pound that square peg...

I'm also glad everyone uses the 49ers as an example....oh look he played bad against the top OLB in the NFL...and against the top front 7 in the NFL...

I guess no one can be a rookie in the NFL anymore or be allowed to develop....be a star or GTFO....
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't hear that much hating on Martin. I do hear what seems like some serious over-valuing of how Martin played last season. I think there is some discrepancy about just how bad Jonathan Martin was last year. Here are some of the facts:

1) Martin was the worst offensive starter on our team last year by a large margin. Martin graded out on PFF with an OVERALL score of -22. The next worst player on our team, according to PFF, was Daniel Thomas who graded out with a -6.1. That is a 16 point gap. That's absurd. Jake Long graded out with a -0.4.

--The difference in performance between Long and Martin is dramatic. Long was MUCH, MUCH better. So, if you are on board with "Jake Long Sucks" and that you are glad to see him gone, then it seems intellectually dishonest to me, to be suggesting that Jonathan Martin is the answer.


2) Jonathan Martin gave up the most amount of QB hurries at his position in the entire NFL with 47 QB hurries. That's more than any other rookie, that's more than any back-up. Its the most amount of hurries that any lineman on any team in the NFL gave up this last year. Not just worst amongst Tackles, but amongst ALL linemen. That's not me picking on him, or me bashing him, its me simply acknowledging that Martin had an abysmal season.

Just for reference sake, Jonathan Martin gave up 10 more hurries than Marco Colombo had the previous year when we were all were pulling our hair out and ticked off at Sparano for giving that over the hill hack another shot in Miami. I know Martin is a rookie and I know Colombo was a vet, I am simply pointing out that from a mere performance basis, Martin was worse that Marc Colombo the year before.


3) Jonathan Martin got "help" the entire season. I don't recall who it was, but someone on this site figured out that through something like week 8 or 9 Miami had kept the TE in on passing plays something like 40% of the time, and they used the RB/FB's to stay in and block an additional 10-15%, the vast majority of which was to help/assist Martin with his assignments. Our offense had to adjust in order to accommodate Martin's shortcomings. Again, I am not bashing him, I am simply pointing out that even with lots of help, Martin struggled.

4) Martin gave up the most sacks on the team. Despite regular help. Despite largely playing against less elite talent on the right side. Yes, I know he was a rookie. Yes, I know he played on the left side last year in college and is "out" of position. I am not needing that information to weigh anything. I see how and why he could still succeed, the sole purpose of these stats is to indicate just how rough of a season Martin had.


I could go on, but I shouldn't need to show anyone how bad Martin was, how much worse he played than Jake Long, and/or that we have no business handing him ANY starting job at all.

Let him improve on the practice field. When he has shown that he has improved, then give him more snaps. Problem solved. No special treatment.

He didn't perform well, and we should expect more. A lot more. That's not a knock on Martin, its simply saying we need someone at the Tackle spot that doesn't give up a league leading number of QB hurries, the team leading number of sacks, and who required assistance on passing downs with his assignments over 50% of the time.

If that's bashing Martin, then well, guilty as charged. I'd love for him to be the starter next year because he kicked so much tail in the weight room in the season. Please, that would so amazing, and I'd love it to happen. However, the last time we tuned in, Martin was outmatched, and overrun. That is just a fact.
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake long sucked [inappropriate/removed] and you don't mention it at all ... your source says he was 46th ranked tackle in the league and you wanted to dole out 8mil. for him.

Thats a bias that's not supported by facts. You are repetitive about martin and silent on jake long.

Nobody suggested that jonathan martin is the answer ... we all have agreed that he needs competition at the position. But it makes your bashing sound better when you paint the picture that everybody is giving him the starting position. Nobody is singing Martin's praises.

Acknowledge an abysmal season from the middle of said season until the draft of the following season, but it's not bashing ?

Your take on jonathan martin is equivelant to fox news take on the president.
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