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What do you think of DuJuan Harris?
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justo
da gawd
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is an idiot
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driftwood


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
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Location: Milwaukee
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think Harris has really good vision/instincts for being a guy on a practice squad...

im with a few other in thinking that hes probably not a 3 down back but this offense doesn't need that kind of back anyway

im just happy that TT & MM finaly decided to bring in a guy of Dejuans stature... i feel this type of back has been lacking from the packers since forever (tyrell sutton gave us a similar sample before he was cut)

excited to see what Harris can do going into 2013
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Harris a great deal and was willing to pound the table for him in our camp. Just don't love the idea of having "that guy" as your bell cow going into a very long season.

His god given running ability is high end though. Never going to be a "power back" but he runs hard out there. Boy can see it as well as any of them also, HUGE plus in fit. Has nice balance and is hard to find out there as well. More quick than fast(again a plus in fit) but fast enough to hit a long one every now and again.

Getting better in the passing game will be the key to his future. Wish he had a better feel for the passing game but he can catch the football. Kids willing in pass pro as well, just lacks the sand in his pants to excel there. To be fair though, Harris has NEVER been used this way. The camp reps going into this year could do him a ton of good in this area.
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
I like Harris a great deal and was willing to pound the table for him in our camp. Just don't love the idea of having "that guy" as your bell cow going into a very long season.

His god given running ability is high end though. Never going to be a "power back" but he runs hard out there. Boy can see it as well as any of them also, HUGE plus in fit. Has nice balance and is hard to find out there as well. More quick than fast(again a plus in fit) but fast enough to hit a long one every now and again.

Getting better in the passing game will be the key to his future. Wish he had a better feel for the passing game but he can catch the football. Kids willing in pass pro as well, just lacks the sand in his pants to excel there. To be fair though, Harris has NEVER been used this way. The camp reps going into this year could do him a ton of good in this area.


Do you think his "lack" of understanding of the passing game is as much of a product of his being thrust into the starting role as it is of his ability to learn it? It seems like he was probably given a handful of assignments and expected to learn them and that in the future, with a camp under his belt, they could easily teach him more and he could learn. The Packers have a fairly sophisticated passing offense and it stands to reason that he wasn't expected to learn all of the nuances when he got his shot. That said, I think he could go far in this offense. What do you think?
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
I like Harris a great deal and was willing to pound the table for him in our camp. Just don't love the idea of having "that guy" as your bell cow going into a very long season.

His god given running ability is high end though. Never going to be a "power back" but he runs hard out there. Boy can see it as well as any of them also, HUGE plus in fit. Has nice balance and is hard to find out there as well. More quick than fast(again a plus in fit) but fast enough to hit a long one every now and again.

Getting better in the passing game will be the key to his future. Wish he had a better feel for the passing game but he can catch the football. Kids willing in pass pro as well, just lacks the sand in his pants to excel there. To be fair though, Harris has NEVER been used this way. The camp reps going into this year could do him a ton of good in this area.


Do you think his "lack" of understanding of the passing game is as much of a product of his being thrust into the starting role as it is of his ability to learn it? It seems like he was probably given a handful of assignments and expected to learn them and that in the future, with a camp under his belt, they could easily teach him more and he could learn. The Packers have a fairly sophisticated passing offense and it stands to reason that he wasn't expected to learn all of the nuances when he got his shot. That said, I think he could go far in this offense. What do you think?


Sure, that thing just takes time(maybe more time than some understand). Harris lacks a feel for the passing game on all levels because he has just flat out never been used that way. Hard to say what he can or can't do there at this point. What I can say is that Harris is getting a late start there and that thing is all about feel. I don't want to say he can't. LIS, kid can catch the rock. Just have my doubts about him ever being a stud in this area. If he can just get "good enough" it would make him even harder to deal with when running the ball though.
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
I like Harris a great deal and was willing to pound the table for him in our camp. Just don't love the idea of having "that guy" as your bell cow going into a very long season.

His god given running ability is high end though. Never going to be a "power back" but he runs hard out there. Boy can see it as well as any of them also, HUGE plus in fit. Has nice balance and is hard to find out there as well. More quick than fast(again a plus in fit) but fast enough to hit a long one every now and again.

Getting better in the passing game will be the key to his future. Wish he had a better feel for the passing game but he can catch the football. Kids willing in pass pro as well, just lacks the sand in his pants to excel there. To be fair though, Harris has NEVER been used this way. The camp reps going into this year could do him a ton of good in this area.


Do you think his "lack" of understanding of the passing game is as much of a product of his being thrust into the starting role as it is of his ability to learn it? It seems like he was probably given a handful of assignments and expected to learn them and that in the future, with a camp under his belt, they could easily teach him more and he could learn. The Packers have a fairly sophisticated passing offense and it stands to reason that he wasn't expected to learn all of the nuances when he got his shot. That said, I think he could go far in this offense. What do you think?


Sure, that thing just takes time(maybe more time than some understand). Harris lacks a feel for the passing game on all levels because he has just flat out never been used that way. Hard to say what he can or can't do there at this point. What I can say is that Harris is getting a late start there and that thing is all about feel. I don't want to say he can't. LIS, kid can catch the rock. Just have my doubts about him ever being a stud in this area. If he can just get "good enough" it would make him even harder to deal with when running the ball though.


Not to sound contrarian and I understand that you know much more about it than I ever will, but is the passing game for a running back all that complex? It seems to me that most of it is just chipping a LB as he comes down the pike and then rolling out in the flat and catching the ball and doing what they do from there. It seems like if a guy knew his other assignments inside and out, he could easily learn that aspect of the game. It just so happens that the guy in question does have soft hands and he does have good luck in space, in fact, I think that may be a strong suit for him. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like a full camp with the first team would go a long way and I am sure they sent him home with the full playbook and plenty of tape.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A west coast system it's more like that, but we run a lot of vertical stuff. Need to hang back there longer than that second it takes the LB to get back up.

I agree with Palmy. When I went back and watched him the reps simply weren't there. I think the first two games he was only used on first downs. I don't blame them based on size, but we, as fans, don't really know what he's like back there. I don't think he's a three down back for us. The higher the pass % is the less like Harris in that role.

EDIT: Hanging back there is also why Rodgers takes so many sacks, IMO. If we just ran timing routes, he would be on the ground less. A lot of the sacks are when he's just looking for something downfield and they eventually get to him. Can just run the WCO when he's got that good of a deep ball, though. At least that's how I see all this.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly that thing can be a complex/simple as ya want it to be. All would tell ya that a good part of it at the pro level is about feel though. That's where Harris falls short at this point and it's often not something that comes over night. I think there is a good chance Harris can get the basics down in camp. That alone would be a HUGE help IMO. Man is a long ways off from being able to play and excel in the slot or anything like that though.

The RB's you can get out in the tree are the ones that are damn hard to gameplan for. You just never know what you are going to get at snap from the personnel on the field. One of the big issues I had with the way we played our backs last year. Lord knows what you are going to do with Kuhn in the single back is a good bit different than what you are going to do with Harris, ect.
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McThreadski


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
A west coast system it's more like that, but we run a lot of vertical stuff. Need to hang back there longer than that second it takes the LB to get back up.

I agree with Palmy. When I went back and watched him the reps simply weren't there. I think the first two games he was only used on first downs. I don't blame them based on size, but we, as fans, don't really know what he's like back there. I don't think he's a three down back for us. The higher the pass % is the less like Harris in that role.

EDIT: Hanging back there is also why Rodgers takes so many sacks, IMO. If we just ran timing routes, he would be on the ground less. A lot of the sacks are when he's just looking for something downfield and they eventually get to him. Can just run the WCO when he's got that good of a deep ball, though. At least that's how I see all this.


Then we should just cut him. The whole point of a RB in our system is to cut down the likelyhood of a pass vs. run percentage. The defense needs to be honoring the back in the backfield, otherwise, they just drop into a cover two shell and muck up the downfield passing game. If that percentage can creep closer to 50/50, that would be enough to force the defense to move up and thus opening up more options for us. Without that, Harris and any other back is useless. If we always have to bring in another back on third down, that is like a tell in poker, the other team knows it's going to be a pass and that knocks a lot of our strategery out the window.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much to like/dislike about that RB mold in general, for sure. There is a reason why you can get "that guy" after the draft just about every year. Harris is a good little football player though. There is a place for him at the table. Just not sure I want him in the kings chair.
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McThreadski


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
Clearly that thing can be a complex/simple as ya want it to be. All would tell ya that a good part of it at the pro level is about feel though. That's where Harris falls short at this point and it's often not something that comes over night. I think there is a good chance Harris can get the basics down in camp. That alone would be a HUGE help IMO. Man is a long ways off from being able to play and excel in the slot or anything like that though.

The RB's you can get out in the tree are the ones that are damn hard to gameplan for. You just never know what you are going to get at snap from the personnel on the field. One of the big issues I had with the way we played our backs last year. Lord knows what you are going to do with Kuhn in the single back is a good bit different than what you are going to do with Harris, ect.


I think you just nailed it. Harris may or may not be able to do those things, but I don't see anyone else on the roster that can either. Unless it's 3rd and one, if Kuhn is in, they know it's going to be a pass to one of the receivers. Now, if Harris or some other back could put that inkling of a doubt into them that it may be a pass, a run or even a pass to the back, that just loosens up the defense all that much more. All it takes is a couple of conversions and the defense has to honor it for the rest of the game, which will allow for more options downfield.
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McThreadski


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
A west coast system it's more like that, but we run a lot of vertical stuff. Need to hang back there longer than that second it takes the LB to get back up.

I agree with Palmy. When I went back and watched him the reps simply weren't there. I think the first two games he was only used on first downs. I don't blame them based on size, but we, as fans, don't really know what he's like back there. I don't think he's a three down back for us. The higher the pass % is the less like Harris in that role.

EDIT: Hanging back there is also why Rodgers takes so many sacks, IMO. If we just ran timing routes, he would be on the ground less. A lot of the sacks are when he's just looking for something downfield and they eventually get to him. Can just run the WCO when he's got that good of a deep ball, though. At least that's how I see all this.


We should run the WCO to open up the down field game. Lining up 4 wide or five wide sounds neat, but to get the real shots down field, we should mostly rely on the WCO to get us there. Teams have adjusted to our passing game, just look at the numbers from 2011 and compare them to 2012. Same players, different results. We need a back that can take the pressure off of the WR's and the TE's so that they can thrive on the poker game that is the NFL now.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McThreadski wrote:
We should run the WCO to open up the down field game. Lining up 4 wide or five wide sounds neat, but to get the real shots down field, we should mostly rely on the WCO to get us there. Teams have adjusted to our passing game, just look at the numbers from 2011 and compare them to 2012. Same players, different results. We need a back that can take the pressure off of the WR's and the TE's so that they can thrive on the poker game that is the NFL now.


And teams haven't figured out the WCO?

The problem was injuries. Without Jennings most of the season, Nelson gimpy too, and Finley wildly mediocre, we had no one inside that could split the deep shell down the seam.

McCarthy isn't really a WCO guy anyway. He's from the Air Coryell tree. Everything Green Bay does today is an extension of those concepts.
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3irty1


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
I have no problem with putting Harris in the RB1 role. If he can hold up to the beating (he's short, not small) and improve some as pass pro, I can see him as an every down back.

To be honest, I like him more than all but a handful of the backs in the draft (which is not to say we shouldn't draft one of them, but I wouldn't put them ahead of Harris.)


That's how I feel too. He might not be able to succeed with pure momentum like huge backs but He's still over 200 lbs and with his compactness you can tell he's got some torque to get through arm tackles. I see his overall measurables as a positive, even for a starting RB.
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nfldraftguru1


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
I like Harris a great deal and was willing to pound the table for him in our camp. Just don't love the idea of having "that guy" as your bell cow going into a very long season.

His god given running ability is high end though. Never going to be a "power back" but he runs hard out there. Boy can see it as well as any of them also, HUGE plus in fit. Has nice balance and is hard to find out there as well. More quick than fast(again a plus in fit) but fast enough to hit a long one every now and again.

Getting better in the passing game will be the key to his future. Wish he had a better feel for the passing game but he can catch the football. Kids willing in pass pro as well, just lacks the sand in his pants to excel there. To be fair though, Harris has NEVER been used this way. The camp reps going into this year could do him a ton of good in this area.

Laughing

That's an awesome saying.
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pmikep


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palmy, can Ball, Lacy, and Bell run this "FULL TREE" out of the backfield ??? THANKS

GO PACKERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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