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Russ57


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 681
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the moment, the only players I am interested in drafting with the 12th pick, in no particular order, are....

Luke Joeckel
Eric Fisher
Lane Johnson
Dee Milliner
Shariff Floyd
Star Lotulelei
Sheldon Richardson
Ziggy Ansah
Bjoern Werner

I don't see the OT's being there and if Long is back they aren't required. I doubt Ziggy, Star, Dee, or Shariff will be left.
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Dolphinemidget


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maddogg wrote:

1) BPA
2) BPA
3) BPA
4) BPA
5) BPA
6) BPA
7) BPA


Fact!!!

Miller holds a soft spot in my heart. But I want anyone who can make us better, so BPA will be fine.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maddogg wrote:
1.) Luke Joeckel OT
2.) Star Lotulelei DT
3.) Jarvis Jones OLB
4.) Chance Warmack OG
5.) Bjoern Werner DE
6.) Damontre Moore DE
7.) Ezekiel Ansah DE
8.) Eric Fisher OT
9.) Sharrif Floyd DT
10.) Dee Milliner CB
11.) Lane Johnson OT
12.) Jonathan Cooper OG

This is my top 12, So if I'm Jeff Ireland and we stay at 12, I simply cross off the names as they are drafted. When its our turn highest ranked player available is who we draft.


I agree with BPA as long as that player fits your scheme. For instance Jones may be the best player available in one spot because you run a 3-4 defense, but he is much less valuable to a team running a 4-3 defense. So he wouldn't be the best player available to Miami in my opinion.

And you have WAY too many DE's here! Most of those guys are bottom of the first round talents. Ansah is the only one worthy of a top ten status in my opinion.

Also, positional value has to come into play here as well. You have to take a position that makes a bigger difference for you in the top half of the first round. OG might be the least valuable position on the team just above long snapper. I'm not saying the offensive line isn't very important to the success of a team, but an O-line is only as strong as its weakest link, so have one stud OG really doesn't do much for you overall. I'd rather use 2nd and 3rd round picks on guys like that and have a bunch of above average guys all accross the line. My BPA for our system based on positional value would look like this...

1. Eric Fisher OT
2. Luke Joeckel OT
3. Sharriff Floyd DT
4. Geno Smith QB (I put him here, but we shouldn't pick him cause we don't want RT looking over his shoulder just yet)
5. Ezekial Ansah DE
6. Lane johnson OT
7. Demarcus Milliner CB
8. Tavon Austin WR
9. Dion Jordan DE (Has the frame to get bigger)
10. Star Lotulelei NT
11. Xavier Rhodes CB
12. Johnothan Cooper OG (Better fit)
13. Bjorn Werner DE
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'm done looking at pass rushers on film. In my opinion neither of the FSU guys is worth a first round pick. Maybe bottom of the first for Werner? Both are solid, and combined they get solid and consistent pressure, but I don't see elite NFL potential. As a matter of fact the only 2 guys I would even sniff at with the 12th pick are Dion Jordan and Ziggy Ansah. Those guys are the only elite pass rushers I see in this draft. Both would be solid value at the 12th pick and an upgrade over what we currently have. I don't really see any of the other guys as significant upgrades over Vernon/Odrick.

As for which of the 2 I prefer? Jordan is better right now. And if I am a 3-4 team, then I take him in the top 10 hands down. The guy is an absolute beast with his athleticism. He spent a TON of time in pass coverage cause he is that athletic. And he has a huge wingspan, good shoulder lean to rip through a defender without losing his footing (Which I saw Werner do a TON). He has very quick feet and hands. He needs to get a stronger base for a bull rush if he ends up playing in a 4-3, but he has the frame to do that.

Ansah is the one who is more built to stick his hand in the dirt and play 4-3 DE. That's the only reason I might put him above Jordan. His feet are not as quick, but he is powerful enough to throw linemen around and bull rush them and fast enough to take the edge. And he is still learning the game of football. He spent a lot of time at DT as well.

Both would be great pickups at 12. I'd be shocked if any of the other guys were selected before the 20th pick.
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
OK, I'm done looking at pass rushers on film. In my opinion neither of the FSU guys is worth a first round pick. Maybe bottom of the first for Werner? Both are solid, and combined they get solid and consistent pressure, but I don't see elite NFL potential. As a matter of fact the only 2 guys I would even sniff at with the 12th pick are Dion Jordan and Ziggy Ansah. Those guys are the only elite pass rushers I see in this draft. Both would be solid value at the 12th pick and an upgrade over what we currently have. I don't really see any of the other guys as significant upgrades over Vernon/Odrick.

As for which of the 2 I prefer? Jordan is better right now. And if I am a 3-4 team, then I take him in the top 10 hands down. The guy is an absolute beast with his athleticism. He spent a TON of time in pass coverage cause he is that athletic. And he has a huge wingspan, good shoulder lean to rip through a defender without losing his footing (Which I saw Werner do a TON). He has very quick feet and hands. He needs to get a stronger base for a bull rush if he ends up playing in a 4-3, but he has the frame to do that.

Ansah is the one who is more built to stick his hand in the dirt and play 4-3 DE. That's the only reason I might put him above Jordan. His feet are not as quick, but he is powerful enough to throw linemen around and bull rush them and fast enough to take the edge. And he is still learning the game of football. He spent a lot of time at DT as well.

Both would be great pickups at 12. I'd be shocked if any of the other guys were selected before the 20th pick.


I wouldn't touch Jordan....if he played in the SEC I would say yes, but he played in the Pack 10 a conference that likes to forget the 4th letter of the alphabet. He has tons of upside and may end up being a very good player, but his risk is too high. He seems more athlete the football player.

Ansha proved he could play with his performance during the SR Bowl week and would have no problem with him at 12.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
OK, I'm done looking at pass rushers on film. In my opinion neither of the FSU guys is worth a first round pick. Maybe bottom of the first for Werner? Both are solid, and combined they get solid and consistent pressure, but I don't see elite NFL potential. As a matter of fact the only 2 guys I would even sniff at with the 12th pick are Dion Jordan and Ziggy Ansah. Those guys are the only elite pass rushers I see in this draft. Both would be solid value at the 12th pick and an upgrade over what we currently have. I don't really see any of the other guys as significant upgrades over Vernon/Odrick.

As for which of the 2 I prefer? Jordan is better right now. And if I am a 3-4 team, then I take him in the top 10 hands down. The guy is an absolute beast with his athleticism. He spent a TON of time in pass coverage cause he is that athletic. And he has a huge wingspan, good shoulder lean to rip through a defender without losing his footing (Which I saw Werner do a TON). He has very quick feet and hands. He needs to get a stronger base for a bull rush if he ends up playing in a 4-3, but he has the frame to do that.

Ansah is the one who is more built to stick his hand in the dirt and play 4-3 DE. That's the only reason I might put him above Jordan. His feet are not as quick, but he is powerful enough to throw linemen around and bull rush them and fast enough to take the edge. And he is still learning the game of football. He spent a lot of time at DT as well.

Both would be great pickups at 12. I'd be shocked if any of the other guys were selected before the 20th pick.


I wouldn't touch Jordan....if he played in the SEC I would say yes, but he played in the Pack 10 a conference that likes to forget the 4th letter of the alphabet. He has tons of upside and may end up being a very good player, but his risk is too high. He seems more athlete the football player.

Ansha proved he could play with his performance during the SR Bowl week and would have no problem with him at 12.


I don't like that logic at all, and I'm a huge SEC fan. I watched the film. I saw him go up against some pretty good OT's. I saw USC have to game plan around him, because they couldn't block him long enough so they either had to role out or only do 3 step drops. Did he have to face Alabama every other week? No, but neither did Ansah. You say Ansah proved himself in the Senior bowl. I agree, but that was one game. Every film I watched on Jordan he was a beast. And Jordan is more of a football player than Ansah is right now. The guy is all over the field and has this energy about him, and he is polished.

If you are looking at film and just don't see it with Jordan then we will just have to disagree. But if you are looking at his stats and saying, "But he did that in the crappy Pac-10, then go back and watch the film. He isn't going to have the sack totals that other guys have anyways because he was dropping back in coverage a LOT. He actually reminds me a ton of a young Jason Taylor.

When you watch the film, look at his knee bend, look at his quick feet. Look at his wingspan and how he uses it. I saw him use that to get an INT and cause a fumble in the same game. He has quick hands too to rip the OT's hands off him.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The comparison I just saw was Chandler Jones, and I can definitely see it. To be honest, he has the athleticism to play OLB even in a 4-3. He lined up over the slot WR a lot at Oregon. His best fit though is probably a 3-4 defense or some sort of hybrid.
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ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
OK, I'm done looking at pass rushers on film. In my opinion neither of the FSU guys is worth a first round pick. Maybe bottom of the first for Werner? Both are solid, and combined they get solid and consistent pressure, but I don't see elite NFL potential. As a matter of fact the only 2 guys I would even sniff at with the 12th pick are Dion Jordan and Ziggy Ansah. Those guys are the only elite pass rushers I see in this draft. Both would be solid value at the 12th pick and an upgrade over what we currently have. I don't really see any of the other guys as significant upgrades over Vernon/Odrick.

As for which of the 2 I prefer? Jordan is better right now. And if I am a 3-4 team, then I take him in the top 10 hands down. The guy is an absolute beast with his athleticism. He spent a TON of time in pass coverage cause he is that athletic. And he has a huge wingspan, good shoulder lean to rip through a defender without losing his footing (Which I saw Werner do a TON). He has very quick feet and hands. He needs to get a stronger base for a bull rush if he ends up playing in a 4-3, but he has the frame to do that.

Ansah is the one who is more built to stick his hand in the dirt and play 4-3 DE. That's the only reason I might put him above Jordan. His feet are not as quick, but he is powerful enough to throw linemen around and bull rush them and fast enough to take the edge. And he is still learning the game of football. He spent a lot of time at DT as well.

Both would be great pickups at 12. I'd be shocked if any of the other guys were selected before the 20th pick.


I wouldn't touch Jordan....if he played in the SEC I would say yes, but he played in the Pack 10 a conference that likes to forget the 4th letter of the alphabet. He has tons of upside and may end up being a very good player, but his risk is too high. He seems more athlete the football player.

Ansha proved he could play with his performance during the SR Bowl week and would have no problem with him at 12.


I don't like that logic at all, and I'm a huge SEC fan. I watched the film. I saw him go up against some pretty good OT's. I saw USC have to game plan around him, because they couldn't block him long enough so they either had to role out or only do 3 step drops. Did he have to face Alabama every other week? No, but neither did Ansah. You say Ansah proved himself in the Senior bowl. I agree, but that was one game. Every film I watched on Jordan he was a beast. And Jordan is more of a football player than Ansah is right now. The guy is all over the field and has this energy about him, and he is polished.

If you are looking at film and just don't see it with Jordan then we will just have to disagree. But if you are looking at his stats and saying, "But he did that in the crappy Pac-10, then go back and watch the film. He isn't going to have the sack totals that other guys have anyways because he was dropping back in coverage a LOT. He actually reminds me a ton of a young Jason Taylor.

When you watch the film, look at his knee bend, look at his quick feet. Look at his wingspan and how he uses it. I saw him use that to get an INT and cause a fumble in the same game. He has quick hands too to rip the OT's hands off him.


The game at the senior bowl matters very little, it is about the practice....Ansah held his own against one of the Top tackles in the draft and he's actually a 4-3 DE.

Jordan is a 3-4 OLB...he doesn't fit the Dolphins scheme....if I was going by stats I would be even less impressed. I see his film and he looks good then I see the teams he is playing against Arizona State....really...Most reports on him are about how much a great athlete he is and what a smooth athlete he is....to me that is what he is....a great Athlete that plays football. The type of players team get enamored because of his potential and his freak combination of size, speed and athleticism.

It is just an opinion....I understand why people like him (there is a lot to like) and I believe he will go in the top 10, but for me I just see someone who will be overwhelmed by the NFL game.
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bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
OK, I'm done looking at pass rushers on film. In my opinion neither of the FSU guys is worth a first round pick. Maybe bottom of the first for Werner? Both are solid, and combined they get solid and consistent pressure, but I don't see elite NFL potential. As a matter of fact the only 2 guys I would even sniff at with the 12th pick are Dion Jordan and Ziggy Ansah. Those guys are the only elite pass rushers I see in this draft. Both would be solid value at the 12th pick and an upgrade over what we currently have. I don't really see any of the other guys as significant upgrades over Vernon/Odrick.

As for which of the 2 I prefer? Jordan is better right now. And if I am a 3-4 team, then I take him in the top 10 hands down. The guy is an absolute beast with his athleticism. He spent a TON of time in pass coverage cause he is that athletic. And he has a huge wingspan, good shoulder lean to rip through a defender without losing his footing (Which I saw Werner do a TON). He has very quick feet and hands. He needs to get a stronger base for a bull rush if he ends up playing in a 4-3, but he has the frame to do that.

Ansah is the one who is more built to stick his hand in the dirt and play 4-3 DE. That's the only reason I might put him above Jordan. His feet are not as quick, but he is powerful enough to throw linemen around and bull rush them and fast enough to take the edge. And he is still learning the game of football. He spent a lot of time at DT as well.

Both would be great pickups at 12. I'd be shocked if any of the other guys were selected before the 20th pick.


I wouldn't touch Jordan....if he played in the SEC I would say yes, but he played in the Pack 10 a conference that likes to forget the 4th letter of the alphabet. He has tons of upside and may end up being a very good player, but his risk is too high. He seems more athlete the football player.

Ansha proved he could play with his performance during the SR Bowl week and would have no problem with him at 12.


I don't like that logic at all, and I'm a huge SEC fan. I watched the film. I saw him go up against some pretty good OT's. I saw USC have to game plan around him, because they couldn't block him long enough so they either had to role out or only do 3 step drops. Did he have to face Alabama every other week? No, but neither did Ansah. You say Ansah proved himself in the Senior bowl. I agree, but that was one game. Every film I watched on Jordan he was a beast. And Jordan is more of a football player than Ansah is right now. The guy is all over the field and has this energy about him, and he is polished.

If you are looking at film and just don't see it with Jordan then we will just have to disagree. But if you are looking at his stats and saying, "But he did that in the crappy Pac-10, then go back and watch the film. He isn't going to have the sack totals that other guys have anyways because he was dropping back in coverage a LOT. He actually reminds me a ton of a young Jason Taylor.

When you watch the film, look at his knee bend, look at his quick feet. Look at his wingspan and how he uses it. I saw him use that to get an INT and cause a fumble in the same game. He has quick hands too to rip the OT's hands off him.


The game at the senior bowl matters very little, it is about the practice....Ansah held his own against one of the Top tackles in the draft and he's actually a 4-3 DE.

Jordan is a 3-4 OLB...he doesn't fit the Dolphins scheme....if I was going by stats I would be even less impressed. I see his film and he looks good then I see the teams he is playing against Arizona State....really...Most reports on him are about how much a great athlete he is and what a smooth athlete he is....to me that is what he is....a great Athlete that plays football. The type of players team get enamored because of his potential and his freak combination of size, speed and athleticism.

It is just an opinion....I understand why people like him (there is a lot to like) and I believe he will go in the top 10, but for me I just see someone who will be overwhelmed by the NFL game.


You could be right about whether he is a fit in Miami. I think a 4-3 team would have to use him as a hybrid player who stands up and plays OLB some and puts his dirt on the ground other times. And he isn't good enough in the run game yet to be an every down player. But I think he could get there.

I do like Ansah better for us. I haven't seen anything about any of the other guys that makes me think they are worth us taking before the second round to be honest. And even Ansah is someone I'm not sure I would love trading up for. He is still raw. But I'd love him at 12!
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
OK, I'm done looking at pass rushers on film. In my opinion neither of the FSU guys is worth a first round pick. Maybe bottom of the first for Werner? Both are solid, and combined they get solid and consistent pressure, but I don't see elite NFL potential. As a matter of fact the only 2 guys I would even sniff at with the 12th pick are Dion Jordan and Ziggy Ansah. Those guys are the only elite pass rushers I see in this draft. Both would be solid value at the 12th pick and an upgrade over what we currently have. I don't really see any of the other guys as significant upgrades over Vernon/Odrick.

As for which of the 2 I prefer? Jordan is better right now. And if I am a 3-4 team, then I take him in the top 10 hands down. The guy is an absolute beast with his athleticism. He spent a TON of time in pass coverage cause he is that athletic. And he has a huge wingspan, good shoulder lean to rip through a defender without losing his footing (Which I saw Werner do a TON). He has very quick feet and hands. He needs to get a stronger base for a bull rush if he ends up playing in a 4-3, but he has the frame to do that.

Ansah is the one who is more built to stick his hand in the dirt and play 4-3 DE. That's the only reason I might put him above Jordan. His feet are not as quick, but he is powerful enough to throw linemen around and bull rush them and fast enough to take the edge. And he is still learning the game of football. He spent a lot of time at DT as well.

Both would be great pickups at 12. I'd be shocked if any of the other guys were selected before the 20th pick.


I wouldn't touch Jordan....if he played in the SEC I would say yes, but he played in the Pack 10 a conference that likes to forget the 4th letter of the alphabet. He has tons of upside and may end up being a very good player, but his risk is too high. He seems more athlete the football player.

Ansha proved he could play with his performance during the SR Bowl week and would have no problem with him at 12.


I don't like that logic at all, and I'm a huge SEC fan. I watched the film. I saw him go up against some pretty good OT's. I saw USC have to game plan around him, because they couldn't block him long enough so they either had to role out or only do 3 step drops. Did he have to face Alabama every other week? No, but neither did Ansah. You say Ansah proved himself in the Senior bowl. I agree, but that was one game. Every film I watched on Jordan he was a beast. And Jordan is more of a football player than Ansah is right now. The guy is all over the field and has this energy about him, and he is polished.

If you are looking at film and just don't see it with Jordan then we will just have to disagree. But if you are looking at his stats and saying, "But he did that in the crappy Pac-10, then go back and watch the film. He isn't going to have the sack totals that other guys have anyways because he was dropping back in coverage a LOT. He actually reminds me a ton of a young Jason Taylor.

When you watch the film, look at his knee bend, look at his quick feet. Look at his wingspan and how he uses it. I saw him use that to get an INT and cause a fumble in the same game. He has quick hands too to rip the OT's hands off him.


The game at the senior bowl matters very little, it is about the practice....Ansah held his own against one of the Top tackles in the draft and he's actually a 4-3 DE.

Jordan is a 3-4 OLB...he doesn't fit the Dolphins scheme....if I was going by stats I would be even less impressed. I see his film and he looks good then I see the teams he is playing against Arizona State....really...Most reports on him are about how much a great athlete he is and what a smooth athlete he is....to me that is what he is....a great Athlete that plays football. The type of players team get enamored because of his potential and his freak combination of size, speed and athleticism.

It is just an opinion....I understand why people like him (there is a lot to like) and I believe he will go in the top 10, but for me I just see someone who will be overwhelmed by the NFL game.


You could be right about whether he is a fit in Miami. I think a 4-3 team would have to use him as a hybrid player who stands up and plays OLB some and puts his dirt on the ground other times. And he isn't good enough in the run game yet to be an every down player. But I think he could get there.

I do like Ansah better for us. I haven't seen anything about any of the other guys that makes me think they are worth us taking before the second round to be honest. And even Ansah is someone I'm not sure I would love trading up for. He is still raw. But I'd love him at 12!


If Jordan could somehow bulk up to 260 + and not lose his athleticism....he would have the potential to be a great 4-3 DE...it may take him a year to learn playing with his hand in the dirt, but the potential is there.

Ziggy would be a great pick up at 12....I agree about the other DE's nothing really stands out about any of them and I would prefer the Dolphins not trade up for anyone....
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no defensive ends worth the 12th pick except ziggy ansah. Its hard to guage Dion Jordan because he spent half his time in coverage at oregon. I mean really have his time was in coverage. I happen to like him alot but he isnt getting to 12 so its whatever for me. Ireland is going to surprise people and pick a DT because thats the best value at 12 and he loves D lineman.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the 12th pick, I want an impact player who causes the other team to gameplan against them. These are the guys I see that fit that description. Anyone not on this list has no business being picked that high in my opinion...

Star Lotulelei DT
Sherrif Floyd DT
Dee Milliner CB
Tavon Austin WR
Dion Jordan DE/OLB
Ziggy Ansah DE


Other guys I wouldn't be upset about us drafting cause I like, but don't fit the description above...

Lane Johnson LT
Jonathon Cooper LG
Eric Fisher LT
Luke Joeckel LT
Tyler Eifert TE

Anybody else is too risky or not talented enough in general to be a top 12 pick other than Geno Smith who I like.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
With the 12th pick, I want an impact player who causes the other team to gameplan against them. These are the guys I see that fit that description. Anyone not on this list has no business being picked that high in my opinion...

Star Lotulelei DT
Sherrif Floyd DT
Dee Milliner CB
Tavon Austin WR
Dion Jordan DE/OLB
Ziggy Ansah DE


Other guys I wouldn't be upset about us drafting cause I like, but don't fit the description above...

Lane Johnson LT
Jonathon Cooper LG
Eric Fisher LT
Luke Joeckel LT
Tyler Eifert TE

Anybody else is too risky or not talented enough in general to be a top 12 pick other than Geno Smith who I like.
I actually agree with alot of your list but where do you have Sheldon Richardson because there is a good chance he could be BPA when we pick if the draft goes anywhere close to what I think. With your lst the only guys I still see there at 12 are Tavon Austin Eifert and MAYBE Cooper. I am not saying I want Richardson but Armando salguero article got me thinking that its a possible. He is a Geno atkins type DT who pressures the QB and causes havic in the backfield
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SUG


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ57 wrote:
For the moment, the only players I am interested in drafting with the 12th pick, in no particular order, are....

Luke Joeckel
Eric Fisher
Lane Johnson
Dee Milliner
Shariff Floyd
Star Lotulelei
Sheldon Richardson
Ziggy Ansah
Bjoern Werner

I don't see the OT's being there and if Long is back they aren't required. I doubt Ziggy, Star, Dee, or Shariff will be left.


Hear thar ...????... It's Bette Midler "Did you ever know that your my hero ..."

That my friend is realistic, smart & fills a need.

Aug
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ57 wrote:
For the moment, the only players I am interested in drafting with the 12th pick, in no particular order, are....

Luke Joeckel
Eric Fisher
Lane Johnson
Dee Milliner
Shariff Floyd
Star Lotulelei
Sheldon Richardson
Ziggy Ansah
Bjoern Werner

I don't see the OT's being there and if Long is back they aren't required. I doubt Ziggy, Star, Dee, or Shariff will be left.
Good chance all those guys are gone except Richardson who could very well be the BPA when we pick and Werner. Richardson gives us a DT type we have never had
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