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2013 General Draft Prospect Discussion Volume III
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ajdodge09


Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 4654
Location: Monterey Bay
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who do you guys like more for us, Keenan Allen or DeAndre Hopkins? I'd personally go Hopkins I think, and not just because of Allen's 4.7 and this recent failed drug test report, although those two both don't help him.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10692
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajdodge09 wrote:
Who do you guys like more for us, Keenan Allen or DeAndre Hopkins? I'd personally go Hopkins I think, and not just because of Allen's 4.7 and this recent failed drug test report, although those two both don't help him.


Still Allen. I think the 4.7 is fine, still in the end phase of a lengthy rehab, and as the reports on the drug test stand right now, I'm not worried about it. It's not a positive test that would stand against him in the future with other positive tests, it's just a questionable negative. Unless there is some history of failed tests in school there, I don't consider it a major concern. I just see more polish and consistency all the way around from Allen. I like Hopkins well enough, I just like Allen a hair more.
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nfldraftguru1


Joined: 07 Feb 2009
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Location: Whitewater, WI
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajdodge09 wrote:
Who do you guys like more for us, Keenan Allen or DeAndre Hopkins? I'd personally go Hopkins I think, and not just because of Allen's 4.7 and this recent failed drug test report, although those two both don't help him.

Hopkins. Very versatile.
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BrettFavre004


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Hopkins. Little less shifty, but seems to use his body better.
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wgbeethree


Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have Allen slightly ahead. I wouldn't argue too hard either way though. Like them both a lot and have them ranked 2 and 3 at WR in the top teir.
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Packerraymond


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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
nfldraftguru1 wrote:
GoPackGo25 wrote:
Schefter just tweeted that Keenan Allen was black flagged for a drug test at the combine. Thoughts?

EDIT: Looks like his agent is denying it.

I'm gonna trust Schefter. That dude is on top of everything.


High water levels in the test, some times it means nothing and other teams it means he was using a masking agent, be interesting to see how this develops.


Alot of masking agents show up as well on higher end tests like that. Unless he had previous failed tests in college, I wouldn't worry about it. There is a difference between failing a drug test, as in coming up with a positive result, and coming in with too much water. The latter can be accomplished pretty easily if you don't have to go, trying to drink to make yourself give a sample.


Happens all the time in the NCAA drug testing. We had to wait 3 hrs after a game in Oregon last year because one of our players had too much water. That's why I wouldn't jump on Allen's test, I agree with you, sometimes it literally is as simple as he drank too much water.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
spilltray wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
nfldraftguru1 wrote:
GoPackGo25 wrote:
Schefter just tweeted that Keenan Allen was black flagged for a drug test at the combine. Thoughts?

EDIT: Looks like his agent is denying it.

I'm gonna trust Schefter. That dude is on top of everything.


High water levels in the test, some times it means nothing and other teams it means he was using a masking agent, be interesting to see how this develops.


Alot of masking agents show up as well on higher end tests like that. Unless he had previous failed tests in college, I wouldn't worry about it. There is a difference between failing a drug test, as in coming up with a positive result, and coming in with too much water. The latter can be accomplished pretty easily if you don't have to go, trying to drink to make yourself give a sample.


Happens all the time in the NCAA drug testing. We had to wait 3 hrs after a game in Oregon last year because one of our players had too much water. That's why I wouldn't jump on Allen's test, I agree with you, sometimes it literally is as simple as he drank too much water.


Yeah, I had 2 "flagged" drug tests in the Army, where I had been coming off night guard shifts and shifted from coffee to jugs of water when I heard 6:30 formation was having a company test and I had to report at 8 when I got off shift. Both times they pulled me aside to test me a couple weeks later. Same reason, I was trying to drink to make myself give a sample right away so I could go to bed.

Could it be a masking agent? Sure. I don't know that there is any past history to lead you to jump to that conclusion though.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopkins looks explosive in the open field after the catch. I see Allen as a physical, wear-you-down type receiver who won't beat deep coverage. Hopkins is a little bit better with the ball in his hands and I would be content with an early second for him.
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RCobb18


Joined: 04 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me personally I like Hopkins better, I think he has more big play potential than Allen. He isn't as good a route runner as Allen is but he has better straight line speed to take the top off defenses.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talked to my dad about the Allen situation. Basically told me that it's probably a creatintine situation that was used to cover it up. Unless someone is close to dying of kidney disease it's hard to fail a test like that, unless you are using it to flush the system. It's not used to really mask the test (set off a failed test for huge levels), but to flush out the body before the test is even taken. It's the basic stuff you can find in any sort of head shop. Just a mistiming of when to take the agent.

Also left with this note at the end:
Quote:
They should just spend the extra dough and do hair testing on these guys.
I feel like you would see a lot of guys going bald for "aerodynamics".

I feel like being caught covering it up is worse than actually failing the test, right?
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ChaRisMa


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, the national guard officer swears this works and that military personel do it all the time--3 centrum silvers while drinking 2 gallons of a water/orange juice mix will pass a test.
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Packerraymond


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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
Talked to my dad about the Allen situation. Basically told me that it's probably a creatintine situation that was used to cover it up. Unless someone is close to dying of kidney disease it's hard to fail a test like that, unless you are using it to flush the system. It's not used to really mask the test (set off a failed test for huge levels), but to flush out the body before the test is even taken. It's the basic stuff you can find in any sort of head shop. Just a mistiming of when to take the agent.

Also left with this note at the end:
Quote:
They should just spend the extra dough and do hair testing on these guys.
I feel like you would see a lot of guys going bald for "aerodynamics".

I feel like being caught covering it up is worse than actually failing the test, right?


I had a flagged NCAA test a few years ago and we had two guys with it this year, doesn't even require you to be close to kidney failure. It's being over-hydrated. If your pee is not acidic enough for them to test, it's automatically a flagged test. In all three cases, the tests were eventually passed, so assuming its a cover up is jumping to conclusions.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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Location: Madison
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:


I had a flagged NCAA test a few years ago and we had two guys with it this year, doesn't even require you to be close to kidney failure. It's being over-hydrated. If your pee is not acidic enough for them to test, it's automatically a flagged test. In all three cases, the tests were eventually passed, so assuming its a cover up is jumping to conclusions.


that's what a doper WOULD say.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
justo wrote:
Talked to my dad about the Allen situation. Basically told me that it's probably a creatintine situation that was used to cover it up. Unless someone is close to dying of kidney disease it's hard to fail a test like that, unless you are using it to flush the system. It's not used to really mask the test (set off a failed test for huge levels), but to flush out the body before the test is even taken. It's the basic stuff you can find in any sort of head shop. Just a mistiming of when to take the agent.

Also left with this note at the end:
Quote:
They should just spend the extra dough and do hair testing on these guys.
I feel like you would see a lot of guys going bald for "aerodynamics".

I feel like being caught covering it up is worse than actually failing the test, right?


I had a flagged NCAA test a few years ago and we had two guys with it this year, doesn't even require you to be close to kidney failure. It's being over-hydrated. If your pee is not acidic enough for them to test, it's automatically a flagged test. In all three cases, the tests were eventually passed, so assuming its a cover up is jumping to conclusions.
Isn't failing way higher than a healthy person? Either the threshold is low for the combine tests, or he was reaaaally full of water.
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 8649
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

We're voting on Green Bay's 2nd round pick in the draft section. It would be great to have your thoughts and votes. Tyler Eifert was the selection at 26.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=16083127

Cheers

GFW
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