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chuck44


Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 1358
Location: ohio
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: What To Do If????????? Reply with quote

Every year there are a few players who drop in the draft. Picks 16-18 are valued at 1000,950,900 pts

Our pick at# 23 is 760pts...package that with our 4th from Detroit 100pts..our 3rd in 2014 from Seattle valued somewhere 60-80pts...throw in a 2-7th rd picks which we have 3....total 950-1000pts ...you have enough to move up.

We still keep our picks ..not giving up that much...liquidate some of the bottom end picks...plus you cant sign all of those picks we have and be cap friendly..

So in review we:

Trade pick RD1 #23 our 4th rd(detroit), 2014 3rd(seattlle) 2-7th rd picks
to move to the 16-18 range to pick

either

Alec Ogltree
or
Star Lotulelei

I believe one of these guys could easily fall to the 16-18 range

Do you pull the trigger????
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldnt trade up for Star or Ogletree personally.

Ogletree has alarming character issues and he doesnt appear to be maturing with his recent arrest.

Also, if Star falls that far it will be because there are still major concerns over his hearth condition. A 350 pound lineman with heart issues does not sound appealing to me in anyway.

The only players I trade up in that 15-18 range for are Dee Milliner, Xavier Rhodes, Cordarrelle Patterson and Shariff Floyd. No one else intrigues me.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would move up for 1-Floyd 2-Milliner 3-Rhodes 4-Richardson

Of course theres varying degrees of what I would be willing to package to move up.
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JDBrocks


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 5216
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
I wouldnt trade up for Star or Ogletree personally.

Ogletree has alarming character issues and he doesnt appear to be maturing with his recent arrest.

Also, if Star falls that far it will be because there are still major concerns over his hearth condition. A 350 pound lineman with heart issues does not sound appealing to me in anyway.

The only players I trade up in that 15-18 range for are Dee Milliner, Xavier Rhodes, Cordarrelle Patterson and Shariff Floyd. No one else intrigues me.


I wouldn't trade up for Patterson either. Too many questionmarks on the field as well as work ethic issues.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDBrocks wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
I wouldnt trade up for Star or Ogletree personally.

Ogletree has alarming character issues and he doesnt appear to be maturing with his recent arrest.

Also, if Star falls that far it will be because there are still major concerns over his hearth condition. A 350 pound lineman with heart issues does not sound appealing to me in anyway.

The only players I trade up in that 15-18 range for are Dee Milliner, Xavier Rhodes, Cordarrelle Patterson and Shariff Floyd. No one else intrigues me.


I wouldn't trade up for Patterson either. Too many questionmarks on the field as well as work ethic issues.


Work ethic isnt a huge deal for me with college athletes, these guys are 20 to 21 years old. Its tough to judge.

On the field, he is raw. Other than that he has shown great ability all over the field. Immediately, he should make an impact in the short and intermediate passing game and be a fantastic YAC receiver and replace Harvin in that regards. Overtime as Patterson develops his craft and learns from Jennings, the route running skills will improve. His hands dont seem to be a question mark, so that is a plus. Jennings and Wright are more your sound route runner types, I think Patterson would be a good fit with that group and I do see him as a potential #1. At 6-2 and nearly 220 pounds with 4.42 speed and great leaping ability, there is a ton to like.
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JDBrocks


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying I wouldn't draft him, just that I wouldn't trade up for him. He doesn't look like a transcendent talent worth sacrificing other picks in a deep draft from picks in the 20-55 range.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDBrocks wrote:
I'm not saying I wouldn't draft him, just that I wouldn't trade up for him. He doesn't look like a transcendent talent worth sacrificing other picks in a deep draft from picks in the 20-55 range.


Youre probably not going to find a transcendent talent in that 15-18 range, Randy Moss only happens once every blue moon.

Youre going to get flawed prospects either way. You have to ask why each of these players are falling in the first place.

From a physical standpoint, Rhodes, Floyd, Patterson and Milliner have it all. They are all incredible athletes who have shown excellent football ability. Floyd and Patterson may be a bit more raw and unfinished, but they also have a lot more to build on too, which could lead to a potentially higher ceiling.

With two first rd picks, id take a chance on that type of player.
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JDBrocks


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
I'm not saying I wouldn't draft him, just that I wouldn't trade up for him. He doesn't look like a transcendent talent worth sacrificing other picks in a deep draft from picks in the 20-55 range.


Youre probably not going to find a transcendent talent in that 15-18 range, Randy Moss only happens once every blue moon.

Youre going to get flawed prospects either way. You have to ask why each of these players are falling in the first place.

From a physical standpoint, Rhodes, Floyd, Patterson and Milliner have it all. They are all incredible athletes who have shown excellent football ability. Floyd and Patterson may be a bit more raw and unfinished, but they also have a lot more to build on too, which could lead to a potentially higher ceiling.

With two first rd picks, id take a chance on that type of player.


Is the difference between Allen and Patterson that big for you? It isn't for me, but everyone evaluates talent differently, so I could understand if it was. That's all that I was saying - it isn't woth losing another potential starter to upgrade from Allen to Patterson.
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JMac79


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDBrocks wrote:
I'm not saying I wouldn't draft him, just that I wouldn't trade up for him. He doesn't look like a transcendent talent worth sacrificing other picks in a deep draft from picks in the 20-55 range.


I really kind of agree with this... maybe "transcendent" isn't the right term for the type of talent to trade up for, but there is just something about Patterson (and a lot of the other guys mentioned) that is just a bit off from top-10 or -15 players in some past drafts. I think Patterson, Rhodes, Miliner, and Floyd are all very talented prospects, but none of them really excite me to the point where I'd want to give up picks in a deep latter third of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds. With the departure of Winfield (and the relatively unproven nature of Cook and Robinson) I'd maybe consider it for Miliner or Rhodes if the FO is really sold on one of them, but otherwise I think I'd rather keep my picks and go for quantity. I'm just not sure that the dropoff is that significant between the top half of the 1st round and its bottom half.
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Klomp


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd trade up for Sheldon Richardson, but that's about it.

And if we do trade up, I see us then trading down from 25 into the 2nd.
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Cantwin1


Joined: 10 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMac79 wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
I'm not saying I wouldn't draft him, just that I wouldn't trade up for him. He doesn't look like a transcendent talent worth sacrificing other picks in a deep draft from picks in the 20-55 range.


I really kind of agree with this... maybe "transcendent" isn't the right term for the type of talent to trade up for, but there is just something about Patterson (and a lot of the other guys mentioned) that is just a bit off from top-10 or -15 players in some past drafts. I think Patterson, Rhodes, Miliner, and Floyd are all very talented prospects, but none of them really excite me to the point where I'd want to give up picks in a deep latter third of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds. With the departure of Winfield (and the relatively unproven nature of Cook and Robinson) I'd maybe consider it for Miliner or Rhodes if the FO is really sold on one of them, but otherwise I think I'd rather keep my picks and go for quantity. I'm just not sure that the dropoff is that significant between the top half of the 1st round and its bottom half.


Nicely said.
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JDBrocks


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMac79 wrote:
I really kind of agree with this... maybe "transcendent" isn't the right term


Yeah, that was a strong term. None of those guys are a significant upgrade from their peers at the position to warrant a trade up.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDBrocks wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
I'm not saying I wouldn't draft him, just that I wouldn't trade up for him. He doesn't look like a transcendent talent worth sacrificing other picks in a deep draft from picks in the 20-55 range.


Youre probably not going to find a transcendent talent in that 15-18 range, Randy Moss only happens once every blue moon.

Youre going to get flawed prospects either way. You have to ask why each of these players are falling in the first place.

From a physical standpoint, Rhodes, Floyd, Patterson and Milliner have it all. They are all incredible athletes who have shown excellent football ability. Floyd and Patterson may be a bit more raw and unfinished, but they also have a lot more to build on too, which could lead to a potentially higher ceiling.

With two first rd picks, id take a chance on that type of player.


Is the difference between Allen and Patterson that big for you? It isn't for me, but everyone evaluates talent differently, so I could understand if it was. That's all that I was saying - it isn't woth losing another potential starter to upgrade from Allen to Patterson.


Allen and Patterson are hard to compare, they really have different skill sets. I see Allen more of a possession receiver at the next level who really may not offer many explosive big plays. I almost see him a young Michael Jenkins type.

Patterson has game breaking ability, the ability to take a short gain and make a big play out of it. He definitely has the speed and leaping ability to take the top off the defense and be a threat down field.

Allen is more polished, Patterson has more upside. That is what it comes down to for me. If I am trading up in the draft, I want a player with significant upside. Otherwise, MN is better off just staying put with there picks.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: What To Do If????????? Reply with quote

chuck44 wrote:
Every year there are a few players who drop in the draft. Picks 16-18 are valued at 1000,950,900 pts

Our pick at# 23 is 760pts...package that with our 4th from Detroit 100pts..our 3rd in 2014 from Seattle valued somewhere 60-80pts...throw in a 2-7th rd picks which we have 3....total 950-1000pts ...you have enough to move up.

We still keep our picks ..not giving up that much...liquidate some of the bottom end picks...plus you cant sign all of those picks we have and be cap friendly..

So in review we:

Trade pick RD1 #23 our 4th rd(detroit), 2014 3rd(seattlle) 2-7th rd picks
to move to the 16-18 range to pick

either

Alec Ogltree
or
Star Lotulelei

I believe one of these guys could easily fall to the 16-18 range

Do you pull the trigger????


If they dropped that far, I'd assume it was because of some issues that reduced their draft day value over their prior perceived value.

So, I'd wait for one or both to drop to 23.

Then I'd pass on one or both.

Then I'd wait to see if they are available at 25.

Then I'd pass on one or both.

The issues that caused them to drop so far remain the same, regardless of their draft position.

Spielman won't risk 1 valuable draft pick, let alone the 4 you chose to exchange for a 'questionable player'. This trade might sound good to a fan of a particular player who fell for agent-hype. But the man making the decision is being paid well to make the best decisions, and could lose a huge salary if he makes the wrong decision(s) on a whim, based on agent-hype.

Assume one plays well after you draft him. But he break a leg, like EJ Henderson, or an ankle, Griffin?, in his 2nd or 3rd year, and is out of the NFL a year later. Then, 4 players you could have drafted are lost due to 1 injury. Too many eggs placed in 1 basket.

What would you do if you were paid as well as Spielman to make the decision on the trade and selection you posited, and your job depended on Ogletree or Lotuleli succeeding?
Yeah, me too.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Patterson didn't have a severe lack of intelligence I would consider moving up for him.

The old TVC means nothing at this point. We could probably move up for just the first and 4th. 7th round draft picks also barely affect the cap. We may need those.
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