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Geno Smith's Value
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Mongo


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Englewood CO
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryknowssd wrote:

Nope. You obviously have everything figured out and know everything, so I dare not challenge you, almighty one.

Yep, I guess I do. And so should anyone else who obviously isn't blinded by desire. The odds, given the facts we know already, make it overwhelmingly apparent. The Chiefs are throwing a smoke screen in hopes some dumb NFL team bites.

If the Chiefs can trade out of R1.01 they will not get even close to "fair" value as pre-ordained by the obsolete, but vaunted NFL Draft value chart.

I'm condescending? You insult people backhandedly. For example, if they don't agree with your man-love for Geno Smith, well, they obviously allow ESPN to formulate the basis of their opinion. I'll try and phrase my opinion in a more palatable fashion so as not to offend anyone. Imagine the voice of Mort, the sheepish pharmacist from the Simpsons. Here goes:

"Um, er, um. <cough, sniff> If I may, I'd like to offer a differing opinion. I know many of you are fans of Geno Smith. I don't think, well, er, um, <cough, sniff>, that the Chiefs will draft him. Er, um. <cough, sniff>. Don't be mad. They might. I mean I don't really know. They could, I guess. Er, um. <cough, sniff>. Forget I said anything."

BARF!

I could waste more of my time refuting your commentary. My "condescending" nature is sure to offend you and other sensitive folks. Its pointless. We'll see who's right.

Bottom line: The Chiefs are not drafting Geno Smith. Bet on it.

I dare you.
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marnz


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man with riaders probablly taking flynn and arizona likely getting palmer does anyone actually want geno?
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ryknowssd


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mongo wrote:
ryknowssd wrote:

Nope. You obviously have everything figured out and know everything, so I dare not challenge you, almighty one.

Yep, I guess I do. And so should anyone else who obviously isn't blinded by desire. The odds, given the facts we know already, make it overwhelmingly apparent. The Chiefs are throwing a smoke screen in hopes some dumb NFL team bites.

If the Chiefs can trade out of R1.01 they will not get even close to "fair" value as pre-ordained by the obsolete, but vaunted NFL Draft value chart.

I'm condescending? You insult people backhandedly. For example, if they don't agree with your man-love for Geno Smith, well, they obviously allow ESPN to formulate the basis of their opinion. I'll try and phrase my opinion in a more palatable fashion so as not to offend anyone. Here goes:

"Um, er, um. <cough, sniff> If I may, I'd like to offer a differing opinion. I know many of you are fans of Geno Smith. I don't think, well, er, um, <cough, sniff>, that the Chiefs will draft him. Er, um. <cough, sniff>. Don't be mad. They might. I mean I don't really know. They could, I guess. Er, um. <cough, sniff>. Forget I said anything."

BARF!

I could waste more of my time refuting your commentary. My "condescending" nature is sure to offend you and other sensitive folks. Its pointless. We'll see who's right.

Bottom line: The Chiefs are not drafting Geno Smith. Bet on it.

I dare you.


Nice. Rolling Eyes

Where have I insulted you? I've pointed out flaws in your reasoning and also said that you're incredibly condescending. I admit to being condescending in return to show you how it feels...so if that's what you're referring to, great. That's still not an insult, though.

You say I have a blind love for Geno. You obviously don't know me very well. Even if that were true, I don't go around campaigning for us to take any particular player. I also don't try to predict what we WILL do. What I do instead is talk about the possibilities and provide reasoning for why those scenarios might actually come true. Go through my posting history and you'll see just that. I explained my reasoning for Ziggy making a lot of sense for us, too. Does that mean I have blind love for him, too? C'mon, man.

Another thing that, frankly, isn't surprising to me is that you've neglected to even respond to a lot of the points I've made in our conversation here. I'll take that as you conceding those arguments.

Look, I've previously said and will continue to say Geno is not a highly PROBABLE pick for us at #1. My whole point is that it's POSSIBLE. For anyone to say otherwise...or for that matter, going around saying things like "bet on it", "get over it", "we won't draft X player" or even going as far as to call other people "morons" for not sharing YOUR opinion is, well, short sighted, narrow minded and...once again...condescending. Show some freakin' humility. That's all I'm asking of you. If we had a legitimate franchise QB in his prime, I'd be 100% on board with what you're saying. The fact of the matter is that is simply not true. We have a 29 year old injury prone starter and another guy who has attempted a total of 9 passes in the NFL. Regardless of what compensation we're giving those players or what we've given up to get them, we still don't have a clear cut long term franchise QB on the roster. Unless that changes between now and draft day, Geno Smith is still a very legitimate candidate for the 1st overall pick. If you're unwilling to admit that to yourself, I don't know what else to say. There's a difference between having "conviction" in stating your opinions and being a...well...I'll let you finish that sentence.

Let me know when your tunnel vision and god complex is cured. Maybe then, we can have some respectful conversations and actually learn something from each other.
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Mongo


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryknowssd wrote:

Nice. Rolling Eyes

Where have I insulted you? I've pointed out flaws in your reasoning and also said that you're incredibly condescending. I admit to being condescending in return to show you how it feels...so if that's what you're referring to, great. That's still not an insult, though.

You say I have a blind love for Geno. You obviously don't know me very well. Even if that were true, I don't go around campaigning for us to take any particular player. I also don't try to predict what we WILL do. What I do instead is talk about the possibilities and provide reasoning for why those scenarios might actually come true. Go through my posting history and you'll see just that. I explained my reasoning for Ziggy making a lot of sense for us, too. Does that mean I have blind love for him, too? C'mon, man.

Another thing that, frankly, isn't surprising to me is that you've neglected to even respond to a lot of the points I've made in our conversation here. I'll take that as you conceding those arguments.

Look, I've previously said and will continue to say Geno is not a highly PROBABLE pick for us at #1. My whole point is that it's POSSIBLE. For anyone to say otherwise...or for that matter, going around saying things like "bet on it", "get over it", "we won't draft X player" or even going as far as to call other people "morons" for not sharing YOUR opinion is, well, short sighted, narrow minded and...once again...condescending. Show some freakin' humility. That's all I'm asking of you. If we had a legitimate franchise QB in his prime, I'd be 100% on board with what you're saying. The fact of the matter is that is simply not true. We have a 29 year old injury prone starter and another guy who has attempted a total of 9 passes in the NFL. Regardless of what compensation we're giving those players or what we've given up to get them, we still don't have a clear cut long term franchise QB on the roster. Unless that changes between now and draft day, Geno Smith is still a very legitimate candidate for the 1st overall pick. If you're unwilling to admit that to yourself, I don't know what else to say. There's a difference between having "conviction" in stating your opinions and being a...well...I'll let you finish that sentence.

Let me know when your tunnel vision and god complex is cured. Maybe then, we can have some respectful conversations and actually learn something from each other.

Most significantly: Please show me specifically where I have called anyone in this forum a “moron”. It’s NEVER happened, ever, and NEVER will.

You pointing the “flaws in your reasoning” is condescending in itself, is it not? Who are you? You watch some film and consider yourself an expert and all of us are unequal of “your expertise”. This is true, hence your constant ragging of ESPN and anyone who considers their opinion.

Let’s be honest. You’ve been on the Geno bandwagon since day one. He’s who you want and now your step backwards is a feeble attempt to make me out to be an ogre and you the “liberal, open-minded champion of justice.” You want Geno Smith and we all know it. Stop this phony pretense in your effort to make me to be the bad guy.

You are saying Geno is “not a highly probable pick for us at #1.” That’s what I’ve been saying all along.

As I will say, over and over, I state my opinion with conviction, as if they are fact. I ask: If you don’t believe your opinion is not “the way it is”, what’s the point of it? Of course, I could be wrong. I don’t think I am.

I COULD BE WRONG.

Happy? Not me. It’s weak, but true. I just don’t water my posts down with crap like that.
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ryknowssd


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mongo wrote:
Most significantly: Please show me specifically where I have called anyone in this forum a “moron”. It’s NEVER happened, ever, and NEVER will.


Yes, you did. Indirectly, but you did. Here:

Mongo wrote:
Of course nothing is “guaranteed”. The Chiefs could be morons. Judging by the investments made in QB already, they just might be.

I will say this, the odds on the Chiefs drafting Geno Smith are probably an option somewhere in Las Vegas. Betting against it is a better proposition than a hand of Blackjack or playing the stock market. Would you care to wager?


Mongo wrote:
You pointing the “flaws in your reasoning” is condescending in itself, is it not? Who are you? You watch some film and consider yourself an expert and all of us are unequal of “your expertise”. This is true, hence your constant ragging of ESPN and anyone who considers their opinion.


Ask anyone else on this forum what they think of ESPN's "expertise". I have yet to find anyone who actually thinks anyone on their staff actually has real knowledge about the draft or how to break down prospects with any kind of accuracy. Kiper & McShay are hacks. I don't claim to be an expert, but I like to think I have at least a decent rep around these parts when it comes to breaking down game tape and offering unique takes on each team's situation. I don't consider pointing out flaws in reasoning as condescending. I consider that to be part of a conversation. Flaws in reasoning, to me anyway, constitute a double standard. Generally speaking, that is. For example, you stated before that we need to draft starters instead of depth, so I responded by pointing out that Charles was picked when we already had LJ coming off a very good year. That's a flaw in reasoning. It's a double standard. That's not me being condescending, it's just me giving you an opportunity to explain yourself. It's the same thing as someone getting fired for their job for calling in sick too much and a different employee getting to keep their job even though they called in sick a lot, too. You can't just pick and choose when you want to apply certain logic. That kind of stuff damages credibility.

Mongo wrote:
Let’s be honest. You’ve been on the Geno bandwagon since day one. He’s who you want and now your step backwards is a feeble attempt to make me out to be an ogre and you the “liberal, open-minded champion of justice.” You want Geno Smith and we all know it. Stop this phony pretense in your effort to make me to be the bad guy.


Never said you're the bad guy. I never "stepped backwards", either. Go back and look through the first thread you posted in when you were still known as "Lloydst". It was titled "These armchair scouts are idiots". Read through my opening post, your responses and my replies to your responses. I was 100% respectful to you until you started telling me to "get over it" and all that crap. I wasn't "on the Geno bandwagon". I freakin' STARTED that bandwagon. Once we traded for Alex Smith, I knew right then that our chances of drafting him dropped significantly. That still doesn't mean it's not possible that we do, in fact, draft him. If we're being honest, we both deserve some blame for how hostile we've been toward each other.

Mongo wrote:
You are saying Geno is “not a highly probable pick for us at #1.” That’s what I’ve been saying all along.


In an incredibly condescending way, yeah. You're right. You didn't phrase it as "not a probable pick". You phrased it in a prophetic, crystal ball reading "get over it, we're not drafting him". Is that how you would want your children to talk to their friends and family? Doubt it.

Mongo wrote:
As I will say, over and over, I state my opinion with conviction, as if they are fact. I ask: If you don’t believe your opinion is not “the way it is”, what’s the point of it? Of course, I could be wrong. I don’t think I am.


Stating opinions with conviction is a trait I admire. Where that admiration turns to disgust is when you start telling your fellow fans to "get over it" and "bet on it" and insinuate anyone who wants us to draft Geno are "morons" when all they've done is state why their opinion makes sense. Instead of saying something respectful like "I disagree", you've chosen to go on condescending rants and putting others' opinions down as if YOUR opinion is somehow the end all, be all. We all share the same interests here. We want the Chiefs to win. A lot. Everyone has different opinions. Just because someone might have a different opinion doesn't mean they deserve to be ridiculed. You never know, they might know something you don't. That's why I'm on this site. I want to learn as much as I can about prospects, teams and the game of football as a whole. Just because I might question someone's opinion doesn't mean I don't value it. I question things because I'm in a constant search for the truth, whether it be a likely truth or not.

Mongo wrote:
I COULD BE WRONG.

Happy? Not me. It’s weak, but true. I just don’t water my posts down with crap like that.


I'm not asking you to water down your posts. I'm just asking you to be more respectful to your peers. That's all.
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Mongo


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryknowssd wrote:
Mongo wrote:
Most significantly: Please show me specifically where I have called anyone in this forum a “moron”. It’s NEVER happened, ever, and NEVER will.


Yes, you did. Indirectly, but you did. Here:

Mongo wrote:
Of course nothing is “guaranteed”. The Chiefs could be morons. Judging by the investments made in QB already, they just might be.

I will say this, the odds on the Chiefs drafting Geno Smith are probably an option somewhere in Las Vegas. Betting against it is a better proposition than a hand of Blackjack or playing the stock market. Would you care to wager?

Ah so, you are sensitive to my criticism of the Chiefs’ maneuvers. Not your opinion of what they’ve done. Wow, that’s deep. So now I have to watch my criticism with the regime’s opinion and be careful of my criticism of it, because some who agree could infer that I’m disparaging them and their view?

You could have a prominent role in the Democratic party.

Quote:

Never said you're the bad guy. I never "stepped backwards", either. Go back and look through the first thread you posted in when you were still known as "Lloydst". It was titled "These armchair scouts are idiots". Read through my opening post, your responses and my replies to your responses. I was 100% respectful to you until you started telling me to "get over it" and all that crap. I wasn't "on the Geno bandwagon". I freakin' STARTED that bandwagon. Once we traded for Alex Smith, I knew right then that our chances of drafting him dropped significantly. That still doesn't mean it's not possible that we do, in fact, draft him. If we're being honest, we both deserve some blame for how hostile we've been toward each other.

Get over it. Geno Smith is not going to be a Chief and I am fully prepared to eat the deserved , ample portion of crow coming my way if he does. Just season it well and add some kind of dressing like hot sauce or gravy, please.

I’m not worried. I’ll stand by convictions, win or lose.

Quote:
In an incredibly condescending way, yeah.

Sorry. As I said, read the “Mort” reply.

Quote:

Stating opinions with conviction is a trait I admire. Where that admiration turns to disgust is when you start telling your fellow fans to "get over it" and "bet on it" and insinuate anyone who wants us to draft Geno are "morons" when all they've done is state why their opinion makes sense. Instead of saying something respectful like "I disagree", you've chosen to go on condescending rants and putting others' opinions down as if YOUR opinion is somehow the end all, be all. We all share the same interests here. We want the Chiefs to win. A lot. Everyone has different opinions. Just because someone might have a different opinion doesn't mean they deserve to be ridiculed. You never know, they might know something you don't. That's why I'm on this site. I want to learn as much as I can about prospects, teams and the game of football as a whole. Just because I might question someone's opinion doesn't mean I don't value it. I question things because I'm in a constant search for the truth, whether it be a likely truth or not.

Well I would apologize, but won’t. Your interpretation of my commentary is that I think you are a moron. I’ve never said, nor think that. I disagree with you. I think you are wrong, but that doesn’t lessen my opinion of you and your clearly exhibited intelligence. That’s not smartass. I wouldn’t have engaged you in this debate if I thought you, or anyone else, was a “moron”.

Quote:
I'm not asking you to water down your posts. I'm just asking you to be more respectful to your peers. That's all.

Again, I’ve never purposely attacked a person. I have my opinion. I believe it’s right and will debate it as if it is. I refuse to cater to those who are unable to recognize this a public forum whose purpose is for us “layman” to come here and voice our opinion as if it really matters.
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Last edited by Mongo on Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ryknowssd


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow.

Yup. I'm done responding to your posts. This will be my last.
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EB29


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this thread crashed and burned just a little fellas Laughing
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ryknowssd


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EB29 wrote:
Well this thread crashed and burned just a little fellas Laughing


lol, pretty much.

In a feeble attempt to revive it, what does everyone think about the possibility of Geno in our spread/WCO hybrid?
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryknowssd wrote:
EB29 wrote:
Well this thread crashed and burned just a little fellas Laughing


lol, pretty much.

In a feeble attempt to revive it, what does everyone think about the possibility of Geno in our spread/WCO hybrid?


About time!

Laughing
The Chiefs will not draft Geno.....LOL....



......but hypothetically speaking I think Geno Smith would be a very good fit in that type of offense.
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tHink Geno is a great Fit if that is where the staff wants to take our offense. I do however also believe, this Is the perfect offense for Alex and Daniel as well.
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ryknowssd


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
I tHink Geno is a great Fit if that is where the staff wants to take our offense. I do however also believe, this Is the perfect offense for Alex and Daniel as well.


Agreed. Alex & Daniel should flourish in this kind of attack if their college success is any indication.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a room you two!!!!!!
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49ers Finest wrote:

People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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ryknowssd


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Get a room you two!!!!!!


Wanna join us? I'm making jalapeno burgers. Wink
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kcstomp63


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryknowssd wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Get a room you two!!!!!!


Wanna join us? I'm making jalapeno burgers. Wink


Que the Homer Simpson drool pic. Mmmmmm
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