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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
As suspected, like many high profile free agents, it seems unlikely for these players to choose to play for the Vikes. In part due to the weather.

and two years of playing at the UofM stadium too coming up.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
Let me guess, a "better" QB in Ryan Tannehill?

Even though thats not true. What does he have to offer that Ponder doesn't have?

I'll take another guess...He can throw the ball 60 yards. So in other words, he can throw the ball 5-10 yards further than Ponder.

yeah, it sure was an "obvious" choice. sigh


Find the quote where I said that.

I'll wait.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
twslhs20 wrote:
Clearly, on passing plays, Wallace would be the focal point in MIA and MIN.

To me the answer is obvious.

well, it's obvious to me that an anti-Ponder bias is playing in to your analysis. seeing Wallace's father said:

"[The Vikings] had come to the point where they were telling him, 'You don't have to live here, just be here during the season. He wanted to get out of the snow and cold weather."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/21966165/mike-wallaces-dad-vikings-offered-more-money-than-dolphins


but hey, we already learned earlier with Harvin being recently supportive of Ponder that as fans we don't have to pay attention to direct quotes if they don't support our point of view.

Very Happy


And that's fine. I stand corrected.

I don't really care for Ponder or Tannehill so it is an interesting decision.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we supposed to take Dear Old Dad's word that this actually happened? Nothing from reporters or team officials at the time or since.

The Vikings don't have that much cap space. Spielman hasn't shown any other inclination to break the bank in FA since the Favre debacle (Jennings got way less than Bowe, Harvin and Wallace). Not that they wouldn't have wanted Wallace -- he's top 10 in the league at his best and younger and healthier than Jennings -- but there's no good reason to think they would've offered such a big contract, and no good reason to think Wallace would've actually turned them down if they did.

Seems like fairly obvious PR from Wallace's camp: the money I got from the Dolphins isn't that much, considering, and I like you guys so much more than the Vikings that I turned down money to come here instead. Might want to wait for any proof it actually happened before arguing about why.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twslhs20 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
twslhs20 wrote:
First of all we were a very balanced team. No ones playing second fiddle to anyone. I've already proven than.


So you expected Mike Wallace to come in here and get the same number of opportunities as the NFL MVP?


Absolutely.

48.55% of last years plays were running. 42.16% if you take away Ponders scrambles that were actual designed run plays.


The Vikings had nearly a 50/50 run/pass split last year. 51.5% pass / 48.5% run, according to this website. 51.5% passing seems balanced but it was actually the 5th lowest total percentage of passing plays in the league, ahead of only KC, SF, Washington and Seattle. 11 teams had passing attempts on >60% of plays.

Yes, some of our rushing plays were QB scrambles, but that's not unusual -- Ponder was only 7th in the league in QB rushing attempts, comparable to Rodgers, Luck and Wallace's new QB, Tannehill.

So compared to the rest of the league, the Vikings ran more often even while being "balanced".
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ponder: [Jennings] is an outstanding receiver. We saw him every year, twice, playing against us, and he scored a lot of touchdowns and made a lot of catches. It will be exciting for us to have him on our side of the field. Hes just very knowledgeable of the game. Hes got great leadership skills. Hes rubbing off on the other receivers. We have a young group of receivers behind Greg and hes trying to give as much knowledge to those guys and you can tell theyre soaking it up.

http://www.kfan.com/pages/vikingsblog.html?article=11386444#ixzz2WCPMHtHP


i don't think Mike Wallace, as exciting of a receiver as he is, would be providing these benefits.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krauser wrote:
Are we supposed to take Dear Old Dad's word that this actually happened? Nothing from reporters or team officials at the time or since.

The Vikings don't have that much cap space. Spielman hasn't shown any other inclination to break the bank in FA since the Favre debacle (Jennings got way less than Bowe, Harvin and Wallace). Not that they wouldn't have wanted Wallace -- he's top 10 in the league at his best and younger and healthier than Jennings -- but there's no good reason to think they would've offered such a big contract, and no good reason to think Wallace would've actually turned them down if they did.

Seems like fairly obvious PR from Wallace's camp: the money I got from the Dolphins isn't that much, considering, and I like you guys so much more than the Vikings that I turned down money to come here instead. Might want to wait for any proof it actually happened before arguing about why.


He did break the bank on Berrian
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twslhs20 wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
Let me guess, a "better" QB in Ryan Tannehill?

Even though thats not true. What does he have to offer that Ponder doesn't have?

I'll take another guess...He can throw the ball 60 yards. So in other words, he can throw the ball 5-10 yards further than Ponder.

yeah, it sure was an "obvious" choice. sigh


Find the quote where I said that.

I'll wait.


I was guessing?
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twslhs20 wrote:
Krauser wrote:
Are we supposed to take Dear Old Dad's word that this actually happened? Nothing from reporters or team officials at the time or since.

The Vikings don't have that much cap space. Spielman hasn't shown any other inclination to break the bank in FA since the Favre debacle (Jennings got way less than Bowe, Harvin and Wallace). Not that they wouldn't have wanted Wallace -- he's top 10 in the league at his best and younger and healthier than Jennings -- but there's no good reason to think they would've offered such a big contract, and no good reason to think Wallace would've actually turned them down if they did.

Seems like fairly obvious PR from Wallace's camp: the money I got from the Dolphins isn't that much, considering, and I like you guys so much more than the Vikings that I turned down money to come here instead. Might want to wait for any proof it actually happened before arguing about why.


He did break the bank on Berrian


I said, "since the Favre debacle".

Berrian got $42M for 6 years, a long way from $76M, and that didn't work out great. Everything Spielman's done since the 2010-11 meltdown suggests he's trying to avoid the mistakes made in building the 2006-09 team.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krauser wrote:
twslhs20 wrote:
Krauser wrote:
Are we supposed to take Dear Old Dad's word that this actually happened? Nothing from reporters or team officials at the time or since.

The Vikings don't have that much cap space. Spielman hasn't shown any other inclination to break the bank in FA since the Favre debacle (Jennings got way less than Bowe, Harvin and Wallace). Not that they wouldn't have wanted Wallace -- he's top 10 in the league at his best and younger and healthier than Jennings -- but there's no good reason to think they would've offered such a big contract, and no good reason to think Wallace would've actually turned them down if they did.

Seems like fairly obvious PR from Wallace's camp: the money I got from the Dolphins isn't that much, considering, and I like you guys so much more than the Vikings that I turned down money to come here instead. Might want to wait for any proof it actually happened before arguing about why.


He did break the bank on Berrian


I said, "since the Favre debacle".

Berrian got $42M for 6 years, a long way from $76M, and that didn't work out great. Everything Spielman's done since the 2010-11 meltdown suggests he's trying to avoid the mistakes made in building the 2006-09 team.


Well to be fair Wallace and Berrian are different receivers. Berrian never once had a 1000 yard season I believe. I was excited to get him, but it never panned out.

Speilman, IMO, has 3 solid mistake free FA/Draft season. However, if this season falls flat, I could see him getting the ax as he has prior strikes from years past. And the jury is still out on some of his draft picks. This is a big year for him and Fraizer IMO.

Also what was wrong with signing Brett? He was our best QB to date since Moon.
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Last edited by twslhs20 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
twslhs20 wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
Let me guess, a "better" QB in Ryan Tannehill?

Even though thats not true. What does he have to offer that Ponder doesn't have?

I'll take another guess...He can throw the ball 60 yards. So in other words, he can throw the ball 5-10 yards further than Ponder.

yeah, it sure was an "obvious" choice. sigh


Find the quote where I said that.

I'll wait.


I was guessing?


Solid guess sport.

I'm sure they could use your analysis over in the Pittsburgh forum.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twslhs20 wrote:
Well to be fair Wallace and Berrian are different receivers. Berrian never once had a 1000 yard season I believe. I was excited to get him, but it never panned out.

Speilman, IMO, has 3 solid mistake free FA/Draft season. However, if this season falls flat, I could see him getting the ax as he has prior strikes from years past. And the jury is still out on some of his draft picks. This is a big year for him and Fraizer IMO.

Also what was wrong with signing Brett? He was our best QB to date since Moon.


3 solid seasons in a row? You're on board with the Ponder pick after all? I thought you were one of the main skeptics.

I agree he's had 3 good years, allowing for juries being out on lots of guys, Ponder most of all.

I don't think Spielman was the main architect of the 2006-09 team. Or at least if he was, he's taken a completely different tack since then.

I didn't have a problem with signing Favre, it was the smart thing to do after TJack embarrassed himself against the Eagles in the 2008 playoffs. The problem was the way that team was built in the first place, too many high priced FAs with a narrow window coupled with TJack as a longshot developmental QB. "Debacle" is really for the way the team was built that necessitated singing Favre, not anything to do with Favre's own play until that final INT.
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husker_vikes3


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krauser wrote:
twslhs20 wrote:
Krauser wrote:
Are we supposed to take Dear Old Dad's word that this actually happened? Nothing from reporters or team officials at the time or since.

The Vikings don't have that much cap space. Spielman hasn't shown any other inclination to break the bank in FA since the Favre debacle (Jennings got way less than Bowe, Harvin and Wallace). Not that they wouldn't have wanted Wallace -- he's top 10 in the league at his best and younger and healthier than Jennings -- but there's no good reason to think they would've offered such a big contract, and no good reason to think Wallace would've actually turned them down if they did.

Seems like fairly obvious PR from Wallace's camp: the money I got from the Dolphins isn't that much, considering, and I like you guys so much more than the Vikings that I turned down money to come here instead. Might want to wait for any proof it actually happened before arguing about why.


He did break the bank on Berrian


I said, "since the Favre debacle".

Berrian got $42M for 6 years, a long way from $76M, and that didn't work out great. Everything Spielman's done since the 2010-11 meltdown suggests he's trying to avoid the mistakes made in building the 2006-09 team.

You could also argue that Berrian wasn't all Spielman's decision. It was during the Triangle of Authority...

But yes, no matter who signed off on it, BB was a horrible choice.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krauser wrote:
twslhs20 wrote:
Well to be fair Wallace and Berrian are different receivers. Berrian never once had a 1000 yard season I believe. I was excited to get him, but it never panned out.

Speilman, IMO, has 3 solid mistake free FA/Draft season. However, if this season falls flat, I could see him getting the ax as he has prior strikes from years past. And the jury is still out on some of his draft picks. This is a big year for him and Fraizer IMO.

Also what was wrong with signing Brett? He was our best QB to date since Moon.


3 solid seasons in a row? You're on board with the Ponder pick after all? I thought you were one of the main skeptics.

I agree he's had 3 good years, allowing for juries being out on lots of guys, Ponder most of all.

I don't think Spielman was the main architect of the 2006-09 team. Or at least if he was, he's taken a completely different tack since then.

I didn't have a problem with signing Favre, it was the smart thing to do after TJack embarrassed himself against the Eagles in the 2008 playoffs. The problem was the way that team was built in the first place, too many high priced FAs with a narrow window coupled with TJack as a longshot developmental QB. "Debacle" is really for the way the team was built that necessitated singing Favre, not anything to do with Favre's own play until that final INT.


No I'm not on board with Ponder. He was a bust in my eyes from the first time I "evaluated" him at FSU. I just didn't feel the need to derail this thread further.

Also was never a big fan of Spielman when he was brought in. His personel evaluation in MIA was abysmal from 02-05, but he's proven so far that he is more right than wrong.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its may be hard to find even 10% of individuals who were on board with Ponder at the selection spot (#12)

I for one would have selected Nick Fairely without hesitation instead.

I always wondered what the Vikings thought about Colin Kaepernick, selected 8 spots ahead of the Vikings' 2nd round of this draft.

Ponder was selected 12th, and no other QB was taken after him until #35 (Dalton) & #36 (Colin)

*Here is the great "what if", what if we took Nick Fairely (12th), and CIN/SF took some combination of Dalton/Ponder, would we have taken Colin with pick #43
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